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The other thread on kids leaving home has prompted me to start this one. My son is interested in mechanical engineering and robotic engineering. He is looking at a 2 year school that offers associates degrees in these fields. Are associates degrees in engineering going to make him employable or does he really need a BS? He is a great hands on kid and wants to work in a smaller shop and be involved with design and build. He would like to work in the weapons or defense industries. Would robotics be more useful than mechanical. Hopefully some of you folks can shed some light on this and I can share it with him. Thanks.

Mike

The short answer is "yes". He *could* on average make more money and avoid "real work" with a BS or more. When I started only 25% of the engineers had degrees while today they only hire foreign born PhDs.

Mike, oil related engineers are in high demand. They need the degree though.

The associates will get him a job as an engineering tech at $40k per year.

A petroleum engineer, or pipeline design engineer makes $250k.

Just sayin'....

With an associates you'd top out at 25 an hour here in rural swmo working in our robots, if you were hired. With a bs you could become the CEO.

Agree with the above.
IMO if he's set on that plan, the best thing would be to get the two year degree, get a job paying $20/hour, and then fully utilize any advanced education reimbursement program his employer might have to go to school part time and get his BSME.

Not to mention spending the rest of your born days in a cubical.

A BSME is a much, much better long range educational investment than an associate's or even a bachelor's in technology. There are a greater range of jobs and employers from which to choose with an ABET-accredited BSME than with a mechanically-related AS or mechanical engineering technology BS. I've been down that road.

If you really want to go up the ladder in engineering, as in many scientific fields, you need an MS or even a PhD. My nephew got a BS in glass engineering but it wasn't really marketable. He got an MS and went to work at $60k. After a couple of years, he went back and got a PhD. Now he's making some serious money developing bulletproof glass.

In addition, the US defense industry, both on the government side and contractor side, is in dire need of young engineers and mathematicians - applied mathematics, mechanical, electrical, chemical, biological, etc., preferably with a BS - who are actually US citizens and have a clean record, and can therefore obtain a security clearance.

But I'm talking about a real 4-year engineering degree here - not one of those funky on-line "technology" degrees..

I can't speak to the Mech. Eng./robotics field - I'm a Civil Eng. with a BS. In the consulting business I'm in, all of our engineers have 4 year degrees at a minimum. Most of our Cadd Techs (computer drafting) have 2 year associate degrees. If that is representative of his area of interest, my guess is he may be limiting himself with the associates degree.

When I went to school, the first 2 years at a university or community college were mostly "pre-engineering" classes (calculus, physics, chemistry, statics, dynamics, strength of materials, etc.). Completing that qualified for an associate's degree, then you applied to your engineering school (Mech., Civil, Electrical, etc.). It was in these programs you took classes specific to your area of interest.

My thoughts are if his mind is made up on a 2 year program, I'd be looking at schools with specialized programs unique to his interests (Voc. Tech. possibly?) though have no idea what may be out there for him.

Good information from everybody. I appreciate it. My son is looking at a 2 year tech school, thinking that he doesn't want to go to school all his young life. This information may help him to broaden his search for other schools.

Mike

I think it is wise to pick up some "trade" exposure. It could be welding or "controls/PLC" or machining. Engineers who don't know their elbow from a singularity are a dime a dozen and the guys on the shop floor have their way with them. Being able to run a decent weld bead or setup and really run a Bridgeport sets you apart from the pretenders.

Jonh Moses Browning's enduring legacy is due, in large part, because his designs could be set up and run on standard machine tools.

You've received some good advice. a 4 year degree is the way to go. 2 years as a young man may seem forever but I regard a 2 year engineering degree in my business as no degree at all while I start hiring 4 year degreed engineers near 6 figures (assuming they can get a security clearance). Please encourage him to move on to a BS (I want to retire some day and need a replacement )

My employer loves to hire kids with or working on an Engineering Associates Degrees as technicians. If they work out for 6 months or so, they become eligible for tuition reimbursement for their engineering schooling, on up through a Bachelor's, at least. Once they get their Bachelor's, they are pretty much a shoe-in to get an Engineering position.

I am a Civil Engineer with a Bachelors degree. In my state, you have to have the 4 year degree to get your Professional license. Without a license, you cannot assume any responsibility and sign any plans etc. Without tha ability, you do not make very much money.

I would suggest looking into the work he truly wants to do and see what they say about degrees. I know in my field, a masters or a Phd is only good for teaching or government research.

A two year degree does not do anything for an Engineering career in my field and does not qualify you to be one. A mechanical engineer will most certainly require a 4 year degree.

My buddy who is ... very well paid, was a an engineer on a Navy aircraft carrier prior to getting his bachelors in engineering and then business MBA. He says that once hired in lower level positions being former mil was an "in" with the higher ups who often were the same. From the amount of partying he got away with in college I think his military experience also pretty much overqualified him for the classes he took in school. I'm sure he'd talk to your son if he's interested, just give me a PM.

A four year degree will open more doors and carry him further up the ladder, but it is going to be more work to achieve too. If he doesn't have a good aptitude for math and physics, it will be a tough goal to make. I saw quite a few struggle and fade out. Getting a good internship can help, but I had some friends that got too involved with work and never finished their degree because of it. Nothing wrong with a two year degree if he doesn't have the commitment to do four. (or five which a lot of people take)

Jerry

He REALLY needs the BSME (or a BS in some engineering field) to really excel. BUT, like JoeMama said, it is tremendously helpful if he truly knows how to use his hands AND tools on real world projects, even if it's how to successfully rebuild an engine or work on farm equipment, or cars, or motorcycles, or other general mechanical or electrical projects.

And it's especially important nowadays to have a clean record so that you don't have any trouble getting a security clearance.

When I was interviewing and hiring folks for NASA and Army Missile Command contractors, I looked for folks with BS degrees in an Engineering discipline, or Math, or Physics first, then I narrowed the cut to those who had some actual hands-on experience and knew how to get dirty (and I mean greasy dirty not morally dirty), then I looked at attitude.

And I really wasn't too interested in folks that had 4.0 averages, unless they could show me they had a lot of useful hands-on skills, and I'm not talking about hands-on with video games either. I paid more attention to kids with 3-point-something averages or even high 2-point-something, especially if they knew their way around a shop and had worked their way through school, had a good attitude, and were willing to LISTEN.

I could make one helluva good engineer out of a kid like that. And I didn't care too much about the engineering discipline as much as I cared about the hands-on abilities. One of the best guys we ever hired had a degree in Agricultural Engineering, but he had lots of hands-on practical experience, and today he's one of the top RDT&E (Research, Development, Test & Evaluation) Engineers on UAV projects (Unmanned Airborne Vehicles (aka Drones)) and Aircraft Survivability for the Army Missile Command.

Another option I strongly recommend is the co-op program. This is where a student, around the middle of his sophomore year (depending on the University) starts a program of working for one semester in his engineering discipline and then going to school for a semester, then working , then school, and so on until graduation. This not only gains the kid invaluable experience in his engineering discipline, but also earns him enough money to pay for most of his school, AND makes him MUCH more hire-able. I did this and my son did this.

I also strongly encouraged the young engineers we hired to get their P.E. stamp (Professional Engineering certification) as soon as they could. In the real world, outside of the government, that P.E. stamp carries a LOT of weight and can make a huge difference in your earnings in some fields.

The P.E. stamp is much more valuable than a MS or PhD in Engineering, so get the P.E. first and then if you want to get the MS or PhD later, that's okay. My son (who, like his old man, majored in Civil Engineering) just got his P.E. this spring, at age 26, and it's already increased his salary by nearly 50%. Now he's thinking about getting his MS in Engineering Management or an Engineering specialty.

I, a Civil Engineer, got hired by a major gov't contractor doing work for NASA, the Army Missile Command, and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission because of my hands-on experience. Then once hired, I was offered the opportunity to go back to school, on their nickle. I earned engineering certifications (in the government realm, about the same as a Masters degree), in Nuclear Environmental Qualification Engineering, Test Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Aerospace Engineering, and specialties in Life Support Systems, Command & Data Management Systems, and even Seismic Engineering. I've got more than enough hours to have a PhD, but in the Gov't world, these certifications were more valuable than a PhD. And you had to have these certs to work on the projects that I was on even if you already had a PhD.

Depending on which state, getting an engineering MS can shorten the time necessary to qualify for the PE. So if you can get that MS while you're working you can sit for the PE exam earlier.

Mike,

Does your son know the coursework required for engineering? Have you, or has he taken an honest assessment about strengths/weaknesses in relation to said coursework?

Does your son know what a typical day as an engineer would entail? And if so, is he still interested?

Has your son ever worked before? Either for himself or 'the man'?

Is your son unusually candid or skilled in math and spatial reasoning?


Have him go on a job shadow/mentoring experience with actual engineers that aren't friends/family so that he can get an honest look for himself.