Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Does .45 colt accuracy drop off in a 454 Casull chamber?

It's advanced loading, takes a good deal of common sense. But in general, you can use the .454 data on the low end as a starting point. It's all about case capacity and bullet seating depth. With any given load the .45 Colt case will be much fuller than the .454, so while the powder charge is nearly the same, where you seat the bullet is the critical factor when over-loading a .45 Colt in a 5 shot revolver. But personally, I'd never bother doing it...

IMO, for any given bullet weight, once you get over 1,200fps (that's my personal "magic" number in revolvers) then you're just extending range. For ME 1,200fps is my magic number because at that velocity I can accurately place a bullet all the way out to 100 yards (although I've never shot GAME at that distance). For a lot of other guys their magic velocity is 1,300 or 1,400 fps; whatever works for you.

Even with the extra velocity flattening trajectory, hitting beyond that range for me becomes more and more problematic mostly because of recoil...I don't enjoy shooting .454's at all. So like Whitworth said, although you can load the same as a .454, it's just not necessary. And I find the .454 cartridge basically not necessary; never have liked it.

Any WFN bullet over 300 grain at 1,200fps at any range that I would be willing to shoot at game, will just plain plow through FEET of flesh and bone. Such a .45 Colt load will kill anything you properly shoot. If I were going up against something that can fight back, then I'd go with a bigger bullet, not more velocity.

Just my opinion...JWP and Whitworth are the experienced handgun big game hunters. The largest thing I've ever killed with a handgun is an 1,800 pissed off bull that was tearing up barn and corral (which was done with a standard pressure .45 Colt)...but that was done from a safe position and I wasn't hunting. Besides that, the biggest thing I ever killed with a handgun was a 340lb black bear with a .44 mag.

If you're looking to hunt very large game with a handgun, I'd first recommend buying Whitworth's book, then listen to what he and JWP has to say...as far as I'm concerned, they're are the EXPERTS on the subject round these parts.

I have opinions based on limited field experience, and perhaps a lot of book education. They have experience on a lot of book knowledge and a LOT of field experience.

45 Colt chambers, particularly the old ones are larger because of the historical use of cast bullets primarily. Not too much for the FA's I have seen.

We are talking about working the brass over several resizing's. You take a case that was designed for very low pressures. Look at the schematics of 45 Long Colt and compare those to the magnum cases. Big difference in case and web thickness.Then you fire it in loose chambers. Then you resize. Over and over. Hot loads are one thing, but 454 loads are much hotter. (you were talking about equal performance). I load conservative, on my magnum cases, most of the time it is a failure of the case mouth that occurs first with using minimum crimp practices. With the 45 Colt you get internal stress cracks right above the web section first, loading at magnum pressures. As little as 2-3 reloads sometimes. Depending on the gun.* If you have not experienced this, you have not done it. Period.

Look at any reputable loading manual, you will see the warnings.

45 Colt at magnum pressures is one thing. At 454 pressures is a whole different ball game. You wanted equal performance.

Crimping in a lubrication groove is done. Matching the correct bullet to do that is the key. This limits your options. Eliminates the use of Jacketed bullets also. Why not use the correct case? A safer case. If you have spent the money on a nice FA revolver, surely buying 454 brass is not an issue. THEY WILL LAST LONGER!

Be safe my friend.


* There is one advantage to using a good ultrasonic cleaner. You can see these stress points much easier.

Under those circumstances you're correct. In a tight/correctly cut .45 Colt chamber, the brass does just fine. In such a chamber I've found that regardless of .45 Colt or .454 primer pockets will usually open up before you wear out the brass walls.

Yea, that is where Starline shines. Since they do not make mass quantities for mfg of loaded ammo and they know that their brass is sold for a component, weather by individuals or custom/semi-custom mfg and most likely will be reloaded over and over they do some special things. Denser grain structure and heat treatment on the "difficult" cases. That helps a bunch in keeping the primer pockets true.

The crap about .45Colt cases being weak is just that, crap.

Starline DOES produce brass for major ammunition manufacturers.

Weaker- dumba$$

Yeah, in a strong gun with good brass, you can crank out some really powerful .45 Colt loads, pretty close to .454.

I don't have much use for more power than that.

DF

+1

another +1. Its amazing how many times I still read on the internet that 45 colt brass is weaker. Its been a very long time since that was the case. For some reason people keep repeating this crap over and over again.

Must've struck a nerve.

I'll just say it one more time. Weak for 454 pressures. Not as safe as 454 brass at 454 pressures. Read and understand if you can. 45 Colt is good for Magnum pressures-IE 40K psi. Not good for repeated loading at 454 pressures. Can not make it any more clear. This is not general internet bull$h!t. Read the warning or not.

Since firing just 3 heavy .454 Casul loads I have developed a flinch. I would get the .45 Colt cylinder and perhaps never use the other. Normal .45 Colt loads are a pleasure to shoot from a frontier style revolver. And I love the Freedom Arms version. Also Colt SAA.

If I need more power than a full house .45 Colt, I'll grab a long gun...

DF

In a properly built 5 shot 45 colt, brass is not an issue at the higher end of the pressure spectrum. I have seen it work time and again myself.

Yea, but not at 65K psi.

Other than the S&W's, I have a Mod 83,four Colt SAA's, and two Blackhawk's in 45 Long Colt and a Win rifle. I have loaded everything from 12K to 40K psi. Never had a case fail. Other than working the neck by crimping, I get good number of reloads before they go to the recycle bin. But I get less case life at the 40K loads for sure. That is expected. We all agree on that. It's the 65K thing I do not like.

454 ammo isn't even loaded to 65k anymore. Loading to 50k in a 5 shot revolver is no problem with the 45 colt. I think we agree just were a little apart on the details is all.

The .460 S&W is loaded around 60K from what I understand. I saw a photo of a guy with the end of his thumb missing. Seems he got that thumb located too far forward with a two hand hold. The tip of his thumb was at the cylinder/barrel gap and the hot gases, just like a plasma torch, took it off clean as a knife.

I don't want a 60K psi revolver, don't own one, not in the market for one...

IMHO,

DF

Yep. I am fortunate to have my own place to shoot anytime I want out my backdoor. That has not always been the case. Nowadays, you go to some of the gun ranges and see some of the idiots out there. Talk to them. Wow-- scary. I blame the internet for that. If a fellow wants to Google something, he can wind up here. If he does not read the whole thread, it could be bad. I have always been a conservative hand loader. If I want more power, I pick another gun. The only thing I use the 500 S&W for is to let friends shoot it for kicks. My wife and kids thought it would be cool to buy me a 50 cal for my 50th birthday. It really is worthless to me. But I won't sell it.

My son shot that 500 S&W off of a sandbag made with shot bag canvas. Had the gun too far forward. You know the rest.

Yeah, I can picture that...

DF