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I want to make sure that readers understand that the below loads exceed the IMR/Hodgdons loads for a 223 with 50 grain bullets.

I started out last week shooting 5 groups starting with 25 grains of 8208 and working toward the listed max. of 25.8 grains. All groups were under an inch with 25.4 being in the .200+. As the velocity was only 3250 at maximum load, I proceeded to load over max, starting at 26 grains and going up at .2 tenths of a grain and working to 26.8. The best of the groups was 26.4 at .200+. At no time did I feel any resistance in opening the bolt nor was there any flattening of the CCI primers.The second set shot today, would have all shot into an inch, except for the shooter, me.

The reason I am posting this, I have never seen groups so consistent using any powders for 10 groups. I had often wondered why IMR brought back the 8208 powder at the request of the Bench Rest crew, when there were so many other powders available. This powder seems to be so consistent over almost 2 full grains of powder.

The gun is a composite stocked CZ Varmint that has never really shown excellent accuracy with numerous powders.

My question, has anyone experienced this consistancy with the same or similar powders.

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Fred, I too have been very happy with IMR 8208 XBR. Haven't had any groups in the .2s, but I don't think I can shoot that well smile. But I have also found that it is a very consistent, well-behaved powder, that meters very well through an old Redding 3 measure. I have not exceeded the book maximums in commercial brass, but have found that it likes to be near those maximums. That said, the starting loads grouped well too. Shooting 50 grain bullets (either Nosler Varmegeddons or Hornady V-maxes, forget which), 1/2 grain under max, put 10 consecutive rounds in 1.3". Didn't think that was too bad for a prairie dog gun! With that load, 5 shots usually go well under an inch.

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One point I should make, when Hodgdons revamped their tables, they reduced the max loads on a number of cartridges. A friend that was reviewing the loads for his 223 discovered that when he last visited the site.

But, I have for years, tested loads until I got an indication of pressure, so I knew where I was on my particular load.

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Originally Posted by FredWillis


I want to make sure that readers understand that the below loads exceed the IMR/Hodgdons loads for a 223 with 50 grain bullets.

I started out last week shooting 5 groups starting with 25 grains of 8208 and working toward the listed max. of 25.8 grains. All groups were under an inch with 25.4 being in the .200+. As the velocity was only 3250 at maximum load, I proceeded to load over max, starting at 26 grains and going up at .2 tenths of a grain and working to 26.8. The best of the groups was 26.4 at .200+. At no time did I feel any resistance in opening the bolt nor was there any flattening of the CCI primers.The second set shot today, would have all shot into an inch, except for the shooter, me.

The reason I am posting this, I have never seen groups so consistent using any powders for 10 groups. I had often wondered why IMR brought back the 8208 powder at the request of the Bench Rest crew, when there were so many other powders available. This powder seems to be so consistent over almost 2 full grains of powder.

The gun is a composite stocked CZ Varmint that has never really shown excellent accuracy with numerous powders.


My question, has anyone experienced this consistancy with the same or similar powders.


It wasn't brought in for the BR crowd, its made up for the AR crowd, and military contracts.
From earlier post of mine:


Just a note on Hodgdon's 8208. The 8208 that is being brought into the country is not being brought in for the benchrest market as most people believe. It is being brought into the country for military contracts and it just so happened that it worked in the PPC. It is being QC'd for those military contracts not for benchrest shooters. There is more money in the military side of selling powder. I work directly with the company using it for military applications. LT-32 is just the opposite. We developed this powder specifically for the 6mm PPC and it is QC'd in the 6mm PPC.



Best regards,
Keith Anderson
Western Powders Ballistic Lab


https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._8208_XBR_vs_Benchmark_in_th#Post8752860

I now have no 8208 and dont plan on buying any more. Benchmark, and LT32 do all that I want. Plus the fact that I had 20 rounds left from my earlier tests @ 25.8 grains, and out of the 20, 10 had stiff bolt lift, and 5 stuck the case to where they had to be tapped out with a cleaning rod. Day was 90 degrees w/ 75% humidity.



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Swifty
I have experienced problems like you discuss in real hot weather. In fact I had a 257 that the loading was 1 full grain different from summer to fall with only a difference in temperatures of about 15 degrees.

The main thing I wanted to point out was the accuracy with 8208, which I find more important that velocity. I twist knobs when varmint hunting, so velocity is not my main priority.

I would agree that Benchmark is truly one of the best I have found for my 20 TAC and 40 VMax. The problem is that Sportsman's Warehouse nor any other local shops can get it. I do not want to deplete my supply to load for the 223.

I always approach loads over recommended with caustion. That is what bullet pullers are for .

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Swifty

I would think there is likely a couple differences that should be discussed. One, my bet you are describing a custom barrel with minimum freebore where my CZ is a factory barrel with likely more freebore than your 223.

Secondly, when I am developing loads, I am developing the loads for a particular rifle. I would never shoot maximum or over max recommended loads in my Sako with a 223 PacNor barrel with hardly any freebore.

Not intending to be argumentive.

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Sportsmans warehouse has had Benchmark in stock off and on for the last few weeks. My problem with 8208 was the fact that it had to be loaded to max or above to perform. The AR guys around here love it.
I usually get 8208 max velocities at 1.5 to 2 grains under with benchmark. At 1 grain under max is where I get 3350 to 3400.
Also found that 8208 performs differently with different brands of primers, which again is not a problem with BM or LT32. Accuracy was not as good. YMMV



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Originally Posted by Swifty52
Sportsmans warehouse has had Benchmark in stock off and on for the last few weeks. My problem with 8208 was the fact that it had to be loaded to max or above to perform. The AR guys around here love it.
I usually get 8208 max velocities at 1.5 to 2 grains under with benchmark. At 1 grain under max is where I get 3350 to 3400.
Also found that 8208 performs differently with different brands of primers, which again is not a problem with BM or LT32. Accuracy was not as good. YMMV


Swifty, we've had some 8208 here locally so I was considering trying it.

What specific primers gave you the best performance?


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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Originally Posted by antelope_sniper
Originally Posted by Swifty52
Sportsmans warehouse has had Benchmark in stock off and on for the last few weeks. My problem with 8208 was the fact that it had to be loaded to max or above to perform. The AR guys around here love it.
I usually get 8208 max velocities at 1.5 to 2 grains under with benchmark. At 1 grain under max is where I get 3350 to 3400.
Also found that 8208 performs differently with different brands of primers, which again is not a problem with BM or LT32. Accuracy was not as good. YMMV


Swifty, we've had some 8208 here locally so I was considering trying it.

What specific primers gave you the best performance?


BR4s gave the most consistent velocities, CCI standard as well.
Federal GM match was very iffy, lost 150 fps and the groups opened up significantly.
Remington 7 1/2 BR gave better groups than Fed, but velocity was still off by a bunch.



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Thanks Swifty, I appreciate the info. Considering it's a super short grained extruded rifle powder your results do not surprise me.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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No problem. Not saying its a bad powder, I just didn't like it for my use.



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I'm looking to use it in an AR. This also fits will with my current inventory of Br-4 and 400 primers so your information is very helpful to me.

I also have some Benchmark and H322 on hand, so between the 3 I expect I should be able to find a load that meets my expectations.


You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.

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LT-32, or Thunderchicken as I call it, was the original "8208" that curried favor with benchrest shooters.

The newest IMR version of 8208 was created as Swifty described.

I've never used the IMR stuff but can say the Western LT-32 is about the best metering, low ES stuff for a 222...

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Originally Posted by FredWillis
Swifty

I would think there is likely a couple differences that should be discussed. One, my bet you are describing a custom barrel with minimum freebore where my CZ is a factory barrel with likely more freebore than your 223.

Secondly, when I am developing loads, I am developing the loads for a particular rifle. I would never shoot maximum or over max recommended loads in my Sako with a 223 PacNor barrel with hardly any freebore.

Not intending to be argumentive.


Cooper Model 21 MV



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Yep Hawk, LT32 is one of the best metering, consistent powders I have used. ES in the teens, and SD in the single digits is common. Good thing I bought a bunch when it was available as with all good things it has disappeared.



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Thanks Swifty for giving us your input. Much appreciated.

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I finally concluded the testing of 8208 powder.Here is the stats from the test.

Rifle- CZ Varmint in 223
Load- 26.4 grains worked up to slowly
Bullet- Hornady 50 gr. SP
The first 4 shots are coming in under 1/2". In all the testing, the fifth shot is a flyer just out of the group but into 1". Went out this morning, and shot less than 3/8" in four shots. Since I will use the gun for shooting chucks, the gun will be fine with this load. I rarely shoot over 3 shots in and as long as the groups stay under 1/2" for 3 or 4 shots.

This load is 6/10th of a grain over max. Approach with much caution as Swifty had pressure at 25.8 grains, the listed max.

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Last edited by FredWillis; 08/05/14.

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