24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Arac Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
On June 26, 2014 the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that the Tsilhqot'in have Aboriginal Title in a large swath of land in the middle of BC.

Tsilhqot'in decision

This is a major development and the SCC confirmed that:
Quote
As we have seen, Delgamuukw establishes that Aboriginal title �encompasses the right to exclusive use and occupation of the land held pursuant to that title for a variety of purposes� (at para. 117), including non-traditional purposes, provided these uses can be reconciled with the communal and ongoing nature of the group�s attachment to the land. Subject to this inherent limit, the title-holding group has the right to choose the uses to which the land is put and to enjoy its economic fruits (para. 166).


The government of BC has already posted the following note on its website:

Quote


Important Notice
To all BC resident hunters who may be planning to hunt in Management Units 5-04 and 5-05:

Your ability to exercise hunting privileges in these management units may be affected by a recent Supreme Court of Canada decision regarding the Tsilhqot'in Nation: http://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14246/index.do The Province is currently analyzing the decision.

If you applied for a Limited Entry Hunting (LEH) Authorization for moose, mountain goat, or antlerless mule deer in Management Units (MUs) 5-04 or 5-05, you will not be able to retrieve LEH draw results for these MUs at this time. However, you will be notified separately at a later date and in writing of the draw results for these species in MUs 5-04 and 5-05. Unfortunately, we are currently unable to indicate when you can expect to receive your notification, but we will endeavour to notify you as soon as possible.

Notices related to how the decision may impact General Open Season and other hunting activities within MUs 5-04 and 5-05 will be posted on the Fish and Wildlife website homepage as soon as possible.




Many other bands have said all commercial activities must stop immediately in their "traditional territories".

My point - make sure you contact your Guide/Outfitter to ensure that everything will be good to go.

GB1

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,312
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,312
Sounds like they have independent nation status much like here in the US. I think we should withdraw all Federal support and subsidies and let 'em have their land with no other help from the Federal/Provincial government.


Rolly
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Just wait until they sue for the value of all the resources pilfered off their land.....just wait. This is what happens when our govts don't deal with unsettled land claims and get on with the business of signing treaties.

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,391
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,391
I'd tell them , no problem, you want a sovereign nation you got it. We'll put a fence up you stay on your side and we'll stay on ours. No more food stamps,medical care, rights, not a thing its your nation now you figure everything out. Oh yeah and by the way don't cross the fence to buy food or gas because you will be trespassing on our land then and its gonna cost you plenty .

Good luck with that one guys.They should have let sleeping dogs alone


I Kill Things......deal with it..
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,124
Before you get your knickers too knotted, the ruling cuts down on native "rights". It basically gives landowner type rights only.


You can hunt longer with wind at your back
IC B2

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Originally Posted by wildone
I'd tell them , no problem, you want a sovereign nation you got it. We'll put a fence up you stay on your side and we'll stay on ours. No more food stamps,medical care, rights, not a thing its your nation now you figure everything out. Oh yeah and by the way don't cross the fence to buy food or gas because you will be trespassing on our land then and its gonna cost you plenty .

Good luck with that one guys.They should have let sleeping dogs alone



I don't think you appreciate the magnitude of what this means in British Columbia....they have outstanding land claims to 110% of the land....and only a couple of signed treaties to date.

We fence them in, we will be standing in Alberta or in the Pacific. ;-)

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,391
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,391
You are correct I did Not realize that. Point well taken, time to re evaluate. Thank you for that information. Wish I had that info prior to commenting my apology.


I Kill Things......deal with it..
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,630
I'm so [bleep] sick and tired of this absolute god dam bulchit. Should go into those management units and shoot everything that walks. The same as they do here 5 days before hunting season starts.
Bunch of lazy pricks.

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Arac Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Originally Posted by downwindtracker2
Before you get your knickers too knotted, the ruling cuts down on native "rights". It basically gives landowner type rights only.


This is incorrect. Aboriginal Title is not the same as fee simple. It is much more. For example in BC a fee simple ownership of the land does not include mineral rights. And Aboriginal Rights certainly aren't cut down. Pierre Trudeau enshrined Aboriginal Rights in the Charter (Constitution). In fact, this ruling makes it much harder for the government to do anything on lands where Aboriginal Title has been proven.

Consider, from the headnote of the decision:
Quote
The nature of Aboriginal title is that it confers on the group that holds it the exclusive right to decide how the land is used and the right to benefit from those uses, subject to the restriction that the uses must be consistent with the group nature of the interest and the enjoyment of the land by future generations. Prior to establishment of title, the Crown is required to consult in good faith with any Aboriginal groups asserting title to the land about proposed uses of the land and, if appropriate, accommodate the interests of such claimant groups. The level of consultation and accommodation required varies with the strength of the Aboriginal group�s claim to the land and the seriousness of the potentially adverse effect upon the interest claimed.

Where Aboriginal title has been established, the Crown must not only comply with its procedural duties, but must also justify any incursions on Aboriginal title lands by ensuring that the proposed government action is substantively consistent with the requirements of s. 35  of the Constitution Act, 1982 . This requires demonstrating both a compelling and substantial governmental objective and that the government action is consistent with the fiduciary duty owed by the Crown to the Aboriginal group. This means the government must act in a way that respects the fact that Aboriginal title is a group interest that inheres in present and future generations, and the duty infuses an obligation of proportionality into the justification process: the incursion must be necessary to achieve the government�s goal (rational connection); the government must go no further than necessary to achieve it (minimal impairment); and the benefits that may be expected to flow from that goal must not be outweighed by adverse effects on the Aboriginal interest (proportionality of impact). Allegations of infringement or failure to adequately consult can be avoided by obtaining the consent of the interested Aboriginal group. This s. 35  framework permits a principled reconciliation of Aboriginal rights with the interests of all Canadians.


The bolding is mine. Since my initial post several bands have served "eviction notices" to companies and commercial operations.

For example:
Quote
The Gitxsan First Nations in northwest B.C. has issued �eviction� notices to CN Rail, forest industries and sports fisheries to vacate the land and cease all activities by Aug. 4, unless they receive the consent of the band�s hereditary chiefs to be there.

The band has seized upon a section of that court decision that sets out conditions that must be met for a First Nations to establish aboriginal title. One of those tests is that a band must prove it had �exclusive historical occupation� of the land in question.


Notice "sport fisheries" in there. Do you think it will be any different when hunting season rolls along?

As I said, my only point is that those planning hunts should make the proper inquiries prior to setting out on their trips.

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 86
D
Campfire Greenhorn
Offline
Campfire Greenhorn
D
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 86
To the supreme court of Canada.
Thank you for the greatest f*&k up yet.
Do the non' aboriginal that have homes and ranches it that area have to pay their taxes to the aboriginals or B.C.
Every body should be treated the same.
If the white people weren't here the natives would still be throwing rocks at their next meal.

IC B3

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Originally Posted by Davemc
To the supreme court of Canada.
Thank you for the greatest f*&k up yet.
Do the non' aboriginal that have homes and ranches it that area have to pay their taxes to the aboriginals or B.C.
Every body should be treated the same.
If the white people weren't here the natives would still be throwing rocks at their next meal.


I guess the white people would be too if the Chinese hadn't invented gun powder?

""Gunpowder was, according to prevailing academic consensus, invented in the 9th century in China, and the earliest record of a written formula for gunpowder ...""

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Arac Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Originally Posted by CanuckShooter
Originally Posted by Davemc
To the supreme court of Canada.
Thank you for the greatest f*&k up yet.
Do the non' aboriginal that have homes and ranches it that area have to pay their taxes to the aboriginals or B.C.
Every body should be treated the same.
If the white people weren't here the natives would still be throwing rocks at their next meal.


I guess the white people would be too if the Chinese hadn't invented gun powder?

""Gunpowder was, according to prevailing academic consensus, invented in the 9th century in China, and the earliest record of a written formula for gunpowder ...""


Except that Ascanio Sobrero, an Italian "white" person, invented Nitroglycerine - a necessary component of smokeless powder.

Just for clarity's sake, I should point out that the Royal Proclamation of 1763 declared that natives have title to the land and such title could only be given up through treaties or by sale to the Crown. Furthermore as recently as 1982 the Government of Canada confirmed the The Charter of Rights that Aboriginal Rights (which include Title) exist. The Supreme Court of Canada is merely applying the law - ie: "don't shoot the messenger". So by law, native title exists where there were no treaties and sales. And guess what? Almost none of BC has been ceded via treaties, therefore pretty much all of BC is technically native lands.

We have some interesting times ahead of us.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
I agree Arac, we are watching it fold out with great interest.

"Aboriginal Rights Exist, but for many they are not defined". That is what prominent aboriginal lawyers told me when I asked why Rights are so different for each aboriginal group. [status, non status, metis, innu, C31]

This whole boondoggle is going to make lawyers rich while the fin-angle all the definitions....

Last edited by CanuckShooter; 07/25/14.
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,796
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,796
Natives did the same thing in northern Canada. All the mining and oil companies pulled out. Guess what after 3 years of starving they were invited back?????


It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Originally Posted by 378Canuck
Natives did the same thing in northern Canada. All the mining and oil companies pulled out. Guess what after 3 years of starving they were invited back?????


Nobody starves in this country...especially those that are living off the largess of Canadian taxpayers, regardless of race.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,796
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,796
No they don't starve they have go back to eating whale blubber instead of eating burgers at Mcdonalds. Wearing animal skins instead of nikes and jeans. Back to walking and dog sleds instead of 100 mph snowmobiles. I could on for a long rant but even you should get the picture.


It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Originally Posted by 378Canuck
No they don't starve they have go back to eating whale blubber instead of eating burgers at Mcdonalds. Wearing animal skins instead of nikes and jeans. Back to walking and dog sleds instead of 100 mph snowmobiles. I could on for a long rant but even you should get the picture.


Some people would think that was an improvement in lifestyle. ;-)
Not everyone wants to be dependent on the industrial world...being told they need to register their snow machines and have insurance...buying overtaxed gasoline...for some people our life sucks.

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,796
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,796
Don't forget all them spoiled fat brats that only know how to operate a cell phone and video games. I hate to see the results later on.


It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Arac Offline OP
Campfire Regular
OP Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,015
Well the Tsilqot'in have made the news again:

B.C. Mounties threatened, fired upon at Tsilhqot'in reserve

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,268
Gonna be a war yet.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

564 members (12344mag, 1beaver_shooter, 21, 1eyedmule, 222Sako, 222ND, 68 invisible), 2,479 guests, and 1,263 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,190,675
Posts18,456,243
Members73,909
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.102s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 0.9057 MB (Peak: 1.0685 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-19 22:55:06 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS