|
|
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 799
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 799 |
I guess I'll never get that finish info from you, Sitka.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
My personal favorite is a slow-cure epoxy with any number of oil finishes on top,
Sorry if I am misunderstanding you but, you would put epoxy on first and oil on top???
Sorry but I don't think that will work. If you go the other way as I have and use something like Watco then put a satin urethane on top, that and makes a nice durable finish. Blacktailer Epoxy makes a great wood finish and is as waterproof as wood gets. There are a number of secrets to making it work well such as never thinning it and warming the stock before applying to aid penetration. Oil looks better than epoxy and is easy to apply and repair. I have never found a single issue with oil not sticking to epoxy with the exception of some very exotic formulas with various additives for specific functions. Spar varnish under oil is far better than the reverse. The oil does not make it waterproof at all. Oil finishes are worse than bare wood for fending off atmospheric water. Further, spar varnish does a far better and faster job of filling pores. And the spar varnish will not shrink nearly as much as the oil. Next, never use anything but gloss finishes on quality pieces. Silica is usually the additive that is used to create satin or matte finishes. Silica does absolutely nothing positive for the finish other than obscure the wood beneath and weaken the finish and leaving the surface rough. A good rubbed out eggshell luster on oil does not hide the wood... art
Last edited by Sitka deer; 08/29/14. Reason: added "on oil" to last line
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Blacktailer; Good afternoon to you sir, I trust this finds you doing well on the last Friday in August. Obviously I'm not Sitka deer, but I will say that based upon some his advice I've done at least three stocks now with a base layer of slow cure epoxy - G2 in this case - followed by successive layers of Tru Oil. This stock was done for the watch Sargent of a good friend - the maple spacers and rosewood tip and grip cap were his specific instructions. ![[Linked Image]](http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x83/BC30cal/vpd300left1.jpg) Sometimes actually I've found that G2 will work a bit like shellac in that it will seal an oily wood like such as some exotics tend to be and allow a nice even finish done with oil after. Anyway that's been my experience with using that method. Hopefully it was useful information for you or someone out there. Good luck on your stocking projects whichever way you decide and on your hunts this fall too. Dwayne Hello Dwayne Thanks for answering the question. I really miss the G1 and G2 epoxies!!! I am out of them and have been for just long enough to know how much I miss 'em! You are right, the G2 was great for oily woods and like shellac it sticks to almost everything and almost everything sticks to it. art
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
I guess I'll never get that finish info from you, Sitka. If you are too lazy to do a search then you are likely too lazy to actually finish some wood... Sad part is around here some nice guy is probably going to do the search for you.
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,643
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,643 |
The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Friggin' nice guys!!!!!! 
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,997
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,997 |
Friggin' nice guys!!!!!! Yeah but they are a huge help to us troglodytes!
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all.
Jack O'Connor
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081 |
I started using West System 207 epoxy as a base coat on marine brightwork when they first brought it out long ago. Since it has zero UV protective qualities, one is behooved to continue with a build up of a good spar varnish that does. Using it, or more often spar varnish, to fill the pores on walnut gun stocks, by the time I achieved full pore fill-age in preparation for applying an "oil" finish I realized that I might as well just keep going with the varnish and create a decent barrier finish. (Which modified my basic approach to just apply the varnish and rub out between coats until eventually the pores are filled, then do a couple more for good measure.)
9-10 coats of varnish- with or without a base coat of epoxy- sounds like a lot of varnish on a stock, but remember the key words are "rub out between coats" (with 320x on a backer) which means that the final film is actually pretty thin. Final rubbing out (with an extremely fine medium) to kill the shine of the glossy varnish (heed what Art said about the silica in Matte or semi-gloss varnishes) reduces the film thickness even more. For the coup de main I then apply a good paste wax to instill a pleasing luster. Oft times uninitiated folks believe they are looking at a laboriously applied "hand rubbed" (hah! what a joke that is) oil finish.
There are lots of ways to skin the cat, that will result in pleasing finishes but with varying degrees of actual protection. Basically, there are no shortcuts if one's goal is to create a beautiful and weather resistant finish on a gun stock. My theory is one should allow as much time to apply the finish as one spent in actually making the stock- or pretty close to it. As with most things in life you get out what you put into it.
My livelihood, post-yacht carpentry, is centered on creating fine cabinetry and reproductions of archaic scientific apparatus. The finishes I use on that stuff are quite different than the finishes I use on guns that may see a day of hunting in rain/snow- which come to think of it reflect more closely the finishes I used on exterior brightwork on wooden sail boats.
I learned my lesson back in the Dark Ages of my youth when I felt proprietary oil finishes were the cat's meow. Nothing like getting caught out in the rain and watching that pretty oil finish turn splotchy and the pores divest themselves of "filler" to make one re-think his approach to finishing.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 08/30/14.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,643
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,643 |
Friggin' nice guys!!!!!! Art, I cheated, I have it saved in watched topics so I can reference as needed. I might add it works as advertised and much better than the straight oil I had been using for years. --- Mel
The only thing I'm an expert at is my own opinion, and I have plenty of those!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
I started using West System 207 epoxy as a base coat on marine brightwork when they first brought it out long ago. Since it has zero UV protective qualities, one is behooved to continue with a build up of a good spar varnish that does. Using it, or more often spar varnish, to fill the pores on walnut gun stocks, by the time I achieved full pore fill-age in preparation for applying an "oil" finish I realized that I might as well just keep going with the varnish and create a decent barrier finish. (Which modified my basic approach to just apply the varnish and rub out between coats until eventually the pores are filled, then do a couple more for good measure.)
9-10 coats of varnish- with or without a base coat of epoxy- sounds like a lot of varnish on a stock, but remember the key words are "rub out between coats" (with 320x on a backer) which means that the final film is actually pretty thin. Final rubbing out (with an extremely fine medium) to kill the shine of the glossy varnish (heed what Art said about the silica in Matte or semi-gloss varnishes) reduces the film thickness even more. For the coup de main I then apply a good paste wax to instill a pleasing luster. Oft times uninitiated folks believe they are looking at a laboriously applied "hand rubbed" (hah! what a joke that is) oil finish.
There are lots of ways to skin the cat, that will result in pleasing finishes but with varying degrees of actual protection. Basically, there are no shortcuts if one's goal is to create a beautiful and weather resistant finish on a gun stock. My theory is one should allow as much time to apply the finish as one spent in actually making the stock- or pretty close to it. As with most things in life you get out what you put into it.
My livelihood, post-yacht carpentry, is centered on creating fine cabinetry and reproductions of archaic scientific apparatus. The finishes I use on that stuff are quite different than the finishes I use on guns that may see a day of hunting in rain/snow- which come to think of it reflect more closely the finishes I used on exterior brightwork on wooden sail boats.
I learned my lesson back in the Dark Ages of my youth when I felt proprietary oil finishes were the cat's meow. Nothing like getting caught out in the rain and watching that pretty oil finish turn splotchy and the pores divest themselves of "filler" to make one re-think his approach to finishing. 603country Someone else here that should be giving advice... and you should be taking notes. There are others...
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 50,627 |
Friggin' nice guys!!!!!! Art, I cheated, I have it saved in watched topics so I can reference as needed. I might add it works as advertised and much better than the straight oil I had been using for years. --- Mel Mel Bad enough when you cheat for yourself but letting others look at your paper is really cheating!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 7,177 |
Minwax looked good on here http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=240961Thinking about refinishing the wood on a new Rossi M92 in 44 mag Thoughts?
Last edited by huntsonora; 07/08/15.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,826
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,826 |
Velvet Oil 400/600 paper.....lots of patients
Sometimes bone black can be added to help with color
Good luck.......recut the checkering while your at it.....you'll be glad you did
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,593
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,593 |
I use linseed oil, mineral sprits for first coat or two with 1:1 ratio to penetrate the wood. could add stain color to maybe get some color into it.
other coats I add tru oil to the mix as a hardener and wipe access.
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,106
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 19,106 |
Someone else here that should be giving advice... and you should be taking notes. There are others... Art, just a little off the subject, but I have come into a rifle that has a stock made my a well known stock maker from the Southwest, that I think is just an oil finish. It is in pretty good shape and I would like to keep it that way, and use the rifle too. Any advice or tips appreciated. miles
Look out for number 1, don't step in number 2.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,826
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,826 |
Maker of the Frankenstud Sling Keeper
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
I use Watco Teak oil. I'm very happy with the results and performance of the product.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 23,081 |
A good wax is totally necessary when working with an oil finished stock, IMO. Therein lies the secret to making an oil finish viable- to a degree. While a barrier finish is to be preferred for a stock that will see hard use in a variety of weather/humidity conditions, I can understand the desire for an oil finish under certain circumstances- a low humidity environment, the gun sees little use beyond an occasional trip to the range, a commitment to keeping it somewhat sealed with a good paste wax, and simply the owner likes the look/feel of it. I like a nicely wrought oil finish as much as the next guy, but I usually lean toward a good barrier finish as I don't know where my guns will end up when they leave my hands, and I wish to provide the best possible protection.
Last edited by gnoahhh; 07/09/15.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
"Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7,132 |
Most of the "oil" finishes you find today aren't true oil but oil/varnish mixes and don't need wax.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,162
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,162 |
Hey TC1 would you link the stock you did recently!
|
|
|
|
|
601 members (17CalFan, 10gaugeman, 12344mag, 10ring1, 1337Fungi, 1941USMC, 53 invisible),
2,695
guests, and
1,088
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,312
Posts18,468,262
Members73,928
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
