Home Forums Lever Action Central Lever Actions - General 35 remington lovers out there?

Toot your own horn all you want, I'll educate you long before you educate me on anything related to bullet performance or ballistics. You may know more than most, but I'm not most. People who believe they know more than I beacause they earn their living in the firearms field are some of my favorites to debate with. Providing they are capable of logical, civilized discussion

So what exactly do you do in the firearms industry that qualifies you as an authority on bullet performance and ballistics, as you state? Do tell. And why do you not believe your colleagues at Hornady, Speer, and Sierra(to name few) when they put in writing, in their manuals, that the .35 is more potent than the 30-30?

Sales figures? Really? You wanna base your opinion on sales figures? LMAO. If you can't figure out why the 30-30 outsells the 35 in ammunition sales, well, I won't bother pointing it out for you. It sure has nothing to do with performance. Nice try though.

LOTS of cartridges throughout history that outperformed their counterparts but waned in the sales dept. LOTS. Being in the industry, I figured you would have known as much. Guess not.

Your numbers are flawed. But, if you must, I'll afford you your extra 300fps with your smaller diameter bullet of 25% less weight.

Being the firearms guru that you are, I'm sure you have heard of the Taylor TKO system of evaluating cartridge lethality. Right? Lotsa respectable gun afficionados believe it to be a pretty fair indicator of a cartridge's capabilities. Including myself. There are some others like it, and most give close to the same results.

Anyhoo, it takes into account diameter, weight, and velocity. Not just energy figures like most.

Your bullet at 2500ps has a TKO value of 17. Mine at 2200fps has a TKO of 23. It's not even close. Again, just numbers. But IMO, numbers that make sense and are on par with my experience with the 2 cartridges.

http://www.beartoothbullets.com/res...ylor.htm?bw=150&bv=2500&cal=.308

As for outpenetrating the 35 I will say this. Typical SDs for said bullets are .226 for the 150gr 30-30 and .223 for the .200gr 35. Nearly identical and NO advantage to either. But, the 35 is just bigger and heavier. Advantage to the .35.

You seem to like to switch back and forth from the 150 to the 170s depending upon which favors your cause. 150 velocities but then 170 sectional densities. Pick one, you can't have both.

If your 170s have a SD of .256 as you claim, AGAIN they are almost same as a 220 gr .35 bullet. No SD advantage to either. And AGAIN the 35 makes a bigger hole.

We can do this all day. As I stated earlier, you have 2 rounds with nearly identical everything, BUT, one is LARGER, makes a bigger hole and CANNOT help but do more damage. Cannot.

God forbid should one of these bullets hit bone and partially fragment. More bullet = more fragments =more blood/trauma. And the 35 still retains a larger/heavier core, in addition.

The 35 could shed about 25% of it's weight, send 50 grains worth of fragments in any given direction, and still retain the same weight of an unscathed 30-30 bullet. And would still be of greater diameter. I guess this is why the vast majority consider it the deadlier round. In some cases, tis is EXACTLY what happens.

Handload both to their full potential, and the 35 gains an even greater advantage. Not my opinion, but a fact.

Anyway, it's your story, tell it any way you want. Some 30-30 fanboy will, no doubt, believe you. Just don't expect me to. I know better.....

Heres a little reading on .35Rem bullet testing: http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/a...performance-edited-sections-part-ii.html

Survey Says......

200 Grain Corelokt is the best all around bullet in a 35. same thing my dad told me 40 years ago after having hunted with them since they came out.

i remember about 40 years ago my dad and i were hunting deer on top of a cold, windy mountain in PA. i was about 100 yards from him and a herd of deer came hauling past him and he shot at a spike in the bunch. we went over to where the spike had been and found about a 4" tree that was shot through and through. thinking he had missed, we almost walked away until he saw a little spot of blood a few feet away. following the blood trail about 50 yards over the side of the ridge and there was the spike. the corelokt had punched right through the tree and into the deer with enough energy to kill it.

as the old motorhead saying goes, "theres no replacement for displacement"

I agree the Corelokt is about optimum. Have used many. But others work good also. Sierras act very similar.

I use 200gr Hornady handloads right now. They dont expand as well at longer ranges, but penetrate deep and still kill reliably.....

i don't worry about long range with the 35 anyway. i think the furthest i've shot a deer with the 35 was about 75 yards. most within 40. my son has been using the LE ammo in his 336 with good results just to be different than his dad. they are devastating actually. my old pump guns like the 200 CL's and due to a gunshop closeout deal about 10 years ago, i have enough for me and a few future generations.

What a dunce you are. TKO values ? Yeah, I've read all about the theory and it's straight up unadulterated bunk. At least in any discussion of cartridge effectiveness on DEER. I'll give you a little insight on just how well it works. I've probably killed more deer with shotgun slugs and large bore conical muzzleloader bullets than you've ever seen. Despite their huge diameter and hulking weight, they DO NOT put deer on the ground as quickly as any number of higher velocity, small bore rifle cartridges, including the .30-30 and such flyweights as the .243 Winchester. That's STONE COLD FACT and you can take it to the bank. As far as the WRITERS who give their opinion on cartridge effectiveness in your loading manuals, {I have those loading manuals BTW and could just about recite those quotes of yours word for word from memory} I have serious doubts that they've ever shot a deer, or anything else with a .35 or .30-30 in their lives and precious damned little with anything else. Right now I earn my living as a full time pistol smith building high end, semi custom/custom 1911's. I spent years prior doing general gunsmithing and custom riflesmithing. None of that makes me an expert on terminal ballistics or cartridge effectiveness of course but 40 years of killing the living schidt out of everything that walks, crawls or fies gives me quite a bit of insight on the matter. In What firearms related field do you make your living and what qualifies you as an expert on terminal ballistics and cartridge effectiveness ? Your pretty good at reading books and quoting other peoples opinions but just exactly how much game have you grounded with the .30 WCF and how many of it's wound tracks have you compared with the .35 ?

Yep, the .35 does alright as long as you keep it close. Start stretching it past 100 yards and it's not so hot. particularly on broadside lung shots.

I don't hunt deer with shotguns, they are for shooting shot. Glad you finally figured that one out after killing more deer than anyone with a shotgun. Exactly how many did it take before it dawned on you? Now that's what a DUNCE is.

I don't give 2 $hits about what writers say, because I know more than most of them. Especially the writers of today. Ballisticians and writers are NOT one and the same, although some ballistician's do write.

So you are independent? As in, you don't actually work for a firearms company or "in the industry" as you say?

How you believe being a gunsmith of any kind qualifies you as a ballistics expert or expert on bullet performance is beyond me. It doesn't. Unlike you, I never claimed to be anything. I'm just a peckerwood who lives in the hills with too many guns.

I'd also bet it all that I've owned more guns, fired more guns, loaded more rounds, and killed more deer than you EVER have.

Dialed in six this week. 4 today. How about you?

LMAO. A pistolsmith makes you an authority on terminal rifle ballistics. I gotta remember that one.

I shot with 2 guys today who do NOTHING but shoot all day, every day. You probably wouldn't even have been able to keep up with the conversation.

Here's my stash. Well, all I could fit into the pic, anyway. About 28 different powders and 12,000 bullets. Not counting the 1000s I have loaded and the 700 I shot this week. Surely being the expert you are, you must have FAR more than poor lil' old me.

Let's see yours, Mr. Firearms Industry.............laffin'......

You'd lose that bet sure as the sun rises in the East. It never ceases to amaze me how many schmucks from the hills think they've put more rounds downrange or more effort and time into the study of firearms and related fields than a gunsmith. If you've done so much and put so much time and effort into it then why aren't you making your living building guns or writing loading manuals ? I bet you all know more about medicine than your doctor's do too. As to how many rounds I've put down range, let's just say it's been part of my job to test fire ALOT of firearms for both function and accuracy for alot of years and leave it at that. I also shot competitively for years and fired 10s of thousands of rounds per year in the process. The most deer I ever killed in one day is 7 and the most in one season 13. I killed alot of deer with shotgun slugs because there are alot of deer in shotgun only zones and I hunted in one regularly for over 20 years. And schit, your pic is kinda cute but my brother had more powder and components than that in the back of his van when he returned from a gunshop run through NY and Pa. last weekend. WTF does how many guns you dialed in today or how much powder you have on hand have to do with killing deer or anything else with .35's and 30-30's ? You still never told us all just how many you've slain with either. All you have done is tell us that some writer in a loading manual says the .35 shoots bigger, heavier bullets and is therefore more effective. My ASSS.

Does a shotgun slug have basically the same SD and BC and velocity as a 30-30? If not, it doesn't belong in this conversation. Quit trying to change the subject. I have lived/hunted in a " shotgun zone" also. Although I was never dumb enough to use a shotgun as handguns and muzzleloaders were also legal. The fact that you killed untold numbers with one shows your a$$. Hilarious.

The reason why I've "done so much and put so much time and effort into it" and don't make a living at it is because I make a better living at what I do. Pretty self explanatory.

So in other words, you don't work "in the industry" as you claimed, and you don't have enough components on hand to prove your credibility?

If I am wrong, please tell me what company you work for and show me all those components you keep for test firing. Surely it must be a vast supply.


Or are you just another internet poser?........

I'm not changing the subject at all. Shotgun slugs are far larger in caliber, far heavier, have more ft. lbs. of energy {at least at close range}and have a much higher "TKO value" than any.30-30 bullet, yet are without doubt inferior deer killers. Kinda shoots your theory that "bigger heavier bullets just have to be better killers" all to hell there Einstein.

I compared the 30-30 to the 35 Rem. Nothing more, nothing less. Quit putting words in my mouth and making assumptions/gross generalizations. Nobody said bigger is always better or anything about shotgun slugs. Try to focus.

Now, what company in "the industry" as you say, do you work for?

Where are all those test firing components? Anyone who shoots like you say you do, and makes a daily living at it, like you say you do, should have quite the pile of components. Lets see it.....

You still haven't said how many deer you've killed with the .30-30 or how many of it's wound tracks you've compared with those from the .35. Until you do, we really don't have much to talk about. I really think the truth is "none". I suspect that's why you keep quoting writers opinions on the subject and dodging the questions with accusations.

The only dodging has been done by you.

"None". Really? That is funny. LMAO. None may describe how many components you have on hand or how many firearms companies you work for.

I have personally killed double digits with each cartridge. I cannot put a an honest number on either. Owned 35s for 35years now. Own 4-5 30-30s currently. And then lets add on the 2 more dozen+ I have personally gutted and /or processed that my bud and his dad killed. One shoots a 35, the other a 30-30. Another guy at camp also uses a 30-30 often, as well as my friend Troy. So I will say I have personally "inspected" around 60 deer kills with said cartridges. I'd say that qualifies as an educated opinion. Of course, as every internet poser does, you will say you have shot far more. Isn't that how it ALWAYS goes?

We have tracked a number of 30-30 shot deer. Even lost a few. None shot by me. No 35 shot deer has been lost, but a few required tracking. Again, none shot by me. In each case, I'd say bullet placement had more to do with it than bullet performance.

Your turn.....

Just checked your profile. "Skilled trades" huh. So here we have Joe the f+cking plumber, who never shot a damned thing in his life with a .30-30 and precious damned litte with anything else' giving us the gospel on terminal ballistics of the .30WCF vs. the .35 Rem. Give me a F+ckin' break and GFY. I'm going to bed as I have guns to build in the morning.

More dodging. Nice. Sorry, not a plumber. Nor close.

I guess we will never see all those components or what firearms company you work for. Thought not.

Laffin'.......

So occupation determines rounds down range now.? Nice analogy. You're an idiot. I'm sure a pistol smith is right at the top of authorities on terminal rifle ballistics and rifle rounds fired. Yeah, go to bed before you are forced to admit the truth to Joe the Plumber. Nice cop out. Your fellow posers would be proud.

If you like, we could post pics of all the firearms we own. How about that? It may take me a couple days to get them all in, but I'm willing if you are.

What a joke. LMAO.

By all means go to bed. We all know the truth. By not saying anything, you just said it all

The great equaliser!

What did I miss?!? Who pissed the farthest?! I guess I'll go to the start of the thread and read.