Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Scenar Shooters:

Yes! Everything I've shot with Bergers have been anchored, and none went far. I'm sold, and I have a bunch left, plus a bunch of other bullets I want to try out. I'd not be surprised if Scenars ended up on that list. Too bad the 185 isn't markedly more slick than the 155. They should have scaled it better.

I am very happy with with Scenar's, and see no need to switch. 3 elk and a Dall ram so far.

Haven't owned a gun yet that liked to shoot Bergers.

Wow...!

Bet you didn't spend much time working on loads and COAL's.

DF

My VLD testing involved shooting good groups, seating bullets out further, shooting better groups, adjusting one more time, shooting great groups.

My bro picked a load and a seating depth, shot just under and inch, though stringy, and called it good.

Secant ojive bullets do best when tuned, as one seating depth will do better than others. This goes for VLD, or Hornady, or any others with secant ojives.

For high ogive bullets, check out the following Berger protocol for COAL. It saves a bunch of range time and simplifies the process. It also works for SSII's, A-Max and similar.

DF



Optimizing Precision And Accuracy From VLD Bullets
Solution
The following has been verified by numerous shooters in many rifles using bullets of different calibers and weights. It is consistent for all VLD bullets. What has been discovered is that VLD bullets shoot best when loaded to a COAL that puts the bullet in a �sweet spot�. This sweet spot is a band .030 to .040 wide and is located anywhere between jamming the bullets into the lands and .150 jump off the lands.

Note: When discussing jam and jump I am referring to the distance from the area of the bearing surface that engages the rifling and the rifling itself. There are many products that allow you to measure these critical dimensions. Some are better than others. I won�t be going into the methods of measuring jam and jump. If you are not familiar with this aspect of reloading it is critically important that you understand this concept before you attempt this test.

Many reloaders feel (and I tend to agree) that meaningful COAL adjustments are .002 to .005. Every once in a while I might adjust the COAL by .010 but this seems like I am moving the bullet the length of a football field. The only way a shooter will be able to benefit from this situation is to let go of this opinion that more than .010 change is too much (me included).

Trying to find the COAL that puts you in the sweet spot by moving .002 to .010 will take so long the barrel may be worn out by the time you sort it out if you don�t give up first. Since the sweet spot is .030 to .040 wide we recommend that you conduct the following test to find your rifles VLD sweet spot.

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a target competition shooter who does not worry about jamming a bullet:
1. .010 into (touching) the lands (jam) 6 rounds
2. .040 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .080 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .120 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Load 24 rounds at the following COAL if you are a hunter (pulling a bullet out of the case with your rifling while in the field can be a hunt ending event which must be avoided) or a competition shooter who worries about pulling a bullet during a match:
1. .010 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
2. .050 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
3. .090 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds
4. .130 off the lands (jump) 6 rounds

Shoot 2 (separate) 3 shot groups in fair conditions to see how they group. The remarkable reality of this test is that one of these 4 COALs will outperform the other three by a considerable margin. Once you know which one of these 4 COAL shoots best then you can tweak the COAL +/- .002 or .005. Taking the time to set this test up will pay off when you find that your rifle is capable of shooting the VLD bullets very well (even at 100 yards).

Regards,
Eric Stecker
Master Bulletsmith

Yeah that process should work for anyone loading for secant OGIVES. Misspelled it in my post above.

Tangent ogives center in the throat more easily, and are less sensitive to seating depth. They also have poorer BC. Berger's Classic Hunter line has a tangent profile where bullets contact the throat, and that is the science behind their Hybrid design: first thousandths of the nose off the bearing surface have a tangental profile, and the rest of the nose has a VLD profile. This makes them less sensitive to throat geometry and seating depth.

I've killed mule deer with 30 cal 155 Scenars out of a 300 WSM and various Bergers.

Scenars killed ok, but not near as quick as the Bergers.

http://www.bergerbullets.com/information/success-stories/hunting/p1/

No, too much time. Their varmint bullets shoot great. The VLD's are a pain in the ass compared to Scenars and Amax.

They can be a pain to get to shoot in a hunting rifle for sure.

But, if you can get them dialed in they work great.

Yep.

When they hot, they hot.

When they not, they not...

DF

Even Berger must have acknowledged they are a pain in the ass, or they wouldn't have developed the Hybrid.

Berger puts out proven methods to help people shoot them to their capability in a gun. I don't see many bullet manufacturers admitting that their bullets are not without flaws, and helping people find ways around those. What I have seen is that they oversell their products' good points, and remain closed-mouthed about potential problems. I don't criticize Berger for their honesty.

Mine have been pretty hot I guess. Course same rigs are bugholing 180 scenars too.

Appreciate the grandiose humor!..................

I hate Berger on the average and nearly as much as SMK's and NBT's...which is something.(grin)

That being said,the 6mm 105 Hybrid,do nice things. It ain't no Scenar or Hornie HPBT,but it flies nice................

Jerry Reed.

Sort of a Southern thang...

Who cain't appreciate Fred?.............

Scenar, RL 17, and lots of magbox makes the 30-06 almost respectable.

That's what 308Win guys have been WISHING for................(grin)