Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Powder choices for a short 223.

Just picked up a Remington Model Seven in 223. The price was very right. The only other short barreled varmint chambering I ever played with was a Remington 600 in 222 and the loading notes for it were lost in a flood many years ago.

I bought this rifle as a calling gun for my wife. We'll most likely be using the Sierra 55 grain Gameking as I've had good luck with that bullet on fur. It's seems to be tough enough to stay together but not explosive enough to turn them inside out. Usually a one inch exit wound, which I can live with.

I digress though. My question is what powders have you found to be most effective in a short barreled 223 with 50-55 grain bullets? Thanks in advance.

Mart

Here's a pic of the new rifle.

26.0grs of H4895. Make sure to check seating depth with that bullet as it easily reaches the lands in most rifles.

Nice Rifle!

I have had good luck with TAC in my 223s, from 22 to 16 inches in barrel length. Low extreme spreads and great accuracy are the norm. I shoot either the 55 sierra GK softpoint or the 55 NBT over 26.0 grains of TAC and the accuracy is wonderful in several rifles. This load is a few tenths over max but velocity is in line and no pressure signs in my rifles but work up accordingly.

All of that being said, in the last few weeks I have been playing with Benchmark and for 55 grainers and under this may be the powder for me, Its worth a look. I am getting good velocity and unreal accuracy.

I'd trip the rifle,mounts,rings,glass and bullets...if only to live a little.

Go Montucky and you'll NEVER look back.................(hint)

?

Prolly not cool enough for shortlings ........ (hint)

N133 works quite well.

Typical Little Twig B.S.......Not a hint either, just fact.

Benchmark is your huckleberry

I will echo the Benchmark recommendation.

I use H335. I've been told it's dirty and temp sensitive, but it's the most accurate powder in my carbine length AR's.

I've got Benchmark, TAC, AA 2495 and H4895 in good amounts. Haven't seen any H335 in a very long time. I see plenty of H322 available and have some of that.

Blued/Walnut,windage adjustable junk and schit glass...are easy to pass on in a single serving,yet "assembled" in unison.

I reckon for folks who "do" and "shoot" as "much" as you,not much matters.

Hint.............

keith,

You as always,are at the mercy of that which you "think" you "know" and "think' that you "do".

Someone with that much "experience",will always be better served in asking questions,rather than giving "answers".

Hint..............

mart,

There is NO "advantage" of a Blued/Walnut Seven,over a Montana. That in balance/handling,weight,twist rate,ergo's,throating,scope mounting or durability. Read that again.

Now to cripple those inherent heavy concessions even further,you've added schit mounts and schit glass...which is THE Dirtiest Of Tricks. Only move left in order to connect all of the Hilarity Dots,is to feed it some schit brass,schit powder and schit bullets,which also seem to be of keen interest to you.

Punt while you can and thank me later.

Hint...............

I've heard of that powder..............

The silence id DEAFENING,as the unconnected dots slooooowwwllllyyyyyyyyyyy sink in!.....................

Poor, poor little twig nobody to talk at except his own self. You are still the best thread killer around. Again not a hint, just fact.

Not much you can do after the arrival of facts,except Whine...which you are rather good at. Congratulations?!?

You ALMOST said something about The Rifle. Almost.

Laughing...................

Holy Fuc!ing Sheep Chit. Not only does Little Twig post to himself, he now posts to someone who has his dumb ass on ignore.
Twig you really need some psychological help.

Pretend ain't real and facts is rather unsettling,for them who reside in La-La Land. Hint.

Best of luck,on your Imaginary Pretend Ignore.

Laughing................

I guess I'm behind the power curve here. I didn't remember asking how blued, walnut Seven compared to anything else. I bought the rifle because it was a good deal and it will serve my wife well for fur hunting. As for the scope and mounts, the rifle is just as I bought it. I didn't buy it for the glass or mounts, and in fact I'll probably change them out. And your brass and bullets comment has me scratching my head.

Mart,

I've said it before and I'll say it again... Its harder to find a powder that won't work in a 223, then it is to find one that is better than all the rest....they are all pretty accurate in the 223...even really slow burning powders...

We all have favorites...lately for velocity and accuracy, my choice has been H 322... one of our Eagle Scouts got one for Graduation present, and has been over here learning to reload...

based on J Barsness recommendation on line here and availability at a local gun shop, we have been loading 53 grain V Maxes behind a charge of 25 grains of TAC...he's been assassinating gophers on his family's farm out to 300 plus yards with a lot of precision...

he's also had to put down a couple of mom's goats, that are just sick due to old age... he's been eyeing out his second story bedroom window waiting for a coyote or two to show their faces now...

All the powders you mentioned ( before the campfire's comic relief/village idiot invaded your thread) will work just fine in your Model 7....

I have about 9 223s but my favorite for walking is my Model 70 Featherweight..., when I rebarrel it, it will have a one in 7 twist put on it...but now with 63 Sierra SMP and 70 grain Speer SMPs, it will knock the crap out of any blacktail ever to walk the forests and hills of Oregon...and with 40 grain V Maxes, and 40 grain Varmaggeddon tipped bullets, it wasted a 1000 or so of Klamath County Sage Rats this summer.....

I had a brief encounter with the 223 in a Ruger Mini 14 many years ago but never loaded for it. I've owned and loaded for most all the 22 centerfires other than the 223.

I'm not at all concerned with getting top velocities, and don't expect them from this short barrel. The rifle will be for fur hunting, lynx and fox primarily, and be for my wife when she accompanies me, or one of my friends who doesn't own a varmint gun but would like to try calling this year.

It would be great if the AA 2495 turned out to be a really accurate choice. I bought a bunch of it when I couldn't find any H4895 last year. I've since found plenty of H4895 but would like to keep it for my Whelens. As for bullets I have a lot of the Sierra 55 grain Gamekings, a bullet I like for fur, but may try some of my home made 52 grain HP from 22 LR cases. I have a ton of them but they need to stay around 3000 fps or less or they want to come apart prior to impact. They may be a bit too explosive for fox.

Used to make the annual pilgrimage to Klamath County for our yearly matter splatter. I lived in Eastern Washington at the time and one of our good friends lives in that area. We got together every year to shoot ground squirrels. My wife shot a very heavy old push feed model 70 in 222 that was a one hole gun. She about wore that gun out shooting squeaks. The last couple of years we did that the Nosler 40 Btip had just come out. Turned that 222 into a squirrel exploding machine. She loved it when they got some hang time. If they just fell over she was a little disappointed.

I have to agree. The SMP is a hell of a bullet.

mart,

Slow down,shut up,copy/paste/print and apply. Hint. The sooner,the better. Re-hint.

You are soooooo farrrrrrrrrrrr behind the curve,it's amazing.

Cracks me up,how the densest of Dummies ask STUPID questions,get facts handed to 'em on a silver platter and take offense. Read that again. Now one more time.

Now if you are in a Turd Polishing Tournament for giggles,I'd say you are gonna take the Gold.

Congratulations?!?.....................

Stick,

You have an interesting take on things. I knew I wasn't an expert in this matter. I didn't realize I was so ignorant. Thank for bringing me up to speed.

My apologies if I conveyed any sense of offense at your so well delivered advise. I'll strive to demonstrate greater appreciation for your obviously expert opinion.

I can only hope to stand in the shadow of man such a yourself.

My humblest regards.

Mart

I should charge you for the accelerated Learning Curve...but my gracious nature is boundless.

Can only lead you to water,but rest assured I'm laughing my ass off,that you are farrrrrrrr too STUPID to drink.

You are doing great and I can't wait for the next installment of "How To [bleep] Up a 223"!.....................

Even late in the day, a common garden gnome doesn't cast much of a shadow.

laffin'

Stick,

I can appreciate a lot of the humor or what passes for humor on this site but I have never attacked anyone on this site or any other for that matter.

As far as I know we don't know each other and really don't get where these personal attacks are coming from.

Are you one of my former clients? That's the last time someone hurled insults at me like this. But they were behind a cell door and we referred to them as cell warriors. They were surprisingly polite when the cell door opened.

Mart

Just ignore him...

.... but he's fun to play with!

Nahh...picking on the touched never was much fun for me.

Love the avatar and I'm really "surprised",you skirt ALL things The Rifle.............

mart,

Noone can make you look like a dumber [bleep] than you,so I reckon you've them sweet "satisfactions" to bask upon? Congratulations?!?

Schit rifles,bullets,glass,mounts,stocks,twist rates,etc...ain't subjective. You have simply assaulted yourself,with your own amazing Stupidity,by unleashing your "best". Not a very pretty picture,is it? Hint.

"Personal"? Hardly. Dumb [bleep] simply dumb schit,as you oh sooooooooo eagerly communicate obliviously.

Take notes,apply same. Hint.

Or find me "mistaken" and I'll happily rub your nose even further in your amazing stupidity......................(wow)

I'll feign my "surprise",that yet another Clueless Twit is on the cusp of playing Imaginary Pretend Ignore.

Ohhhhhhhhh ANYTHING but that!

Laughing!................

If I may be allowed to interrupt Big Stick's apparently endless and pointless rant, my powder choices are as follows: H335 and BL(C)-2 for the great little Nosler 40 grainer; Varget for the 55 gr bullets; AA2230 for the Sierra 65 grain GK; and H335 for the Nosler 64 grain BSB.

Sounds like you've done a bit of reloading and shooting. Any pressure problems with the H335? Especially on a hot day or prolonged shoots ( like PDs..)?

Pressure problems? That's what TAC is for.....(grins)

Yep, had more than a couple of incidents with 335 and 90+ degree days. Usually when working with max loads.

I experienced such an issue in my 22-250.

Do wax eloquent on your Imaginary Pretend "advantages" which are "inherent" to CM spouts,Walnut handles,compromised mounting systems,compromised glass,comprmised twist rates and how the melding REALLY arranges "splendor".

I've never shot ANY of those powders or bullets.

Laughing.................

I've never whistled more than 1000 rounds of '335 fueled projectiles in a day,more than a helluva buncha times.

HATE the schit.

Laughing!.............

TAC is the phoniest schit I've ever shot in 223/223AI,save Varget...............

Why does that not surprise me.

Because your incredible inability to keep pace,reliably grants the obvious to sail miles above your pointy head.

You are on fire!......................

You're on Double Secret Uber Pretend Ignore�remember?

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhsh...I'm on the ropes and you are gonna spook The Hole..................

<snork>!

Rantus interruptus again. Ingwe, no I haven't had any pressure problems with H335. Usually I work up loads in warm weather and hunt in cold weather, so pressure problems haven't been a problem. My H335 load for the 40 grainer is about a half grain shy of max. The BL(C)-2 loads are a bit less warm. When it was hard to find H335, I found plenty of the other, and decided to see if it would shoot as well as the H335. It shot just fine, and when I run out of H335, I might just use up the BL(C)-2 before I get more H335.

603',

Don't let facts ruin your Pretend.................

Thanks for the reply. I shoot IMR 4895 in the varmint guns in hot weather, and H335 comprises my 'go to' load for deer and such, as it gives me velocities with Barnes TTSX like no others, and shooting once or twice in cool weather never raises a pressure issue.

Ingwe, I know you like Barnes, but I've also had good luck with a max load of IMR 4895 behind 60 Partitions.

Ping Pong Balls are farrrrrrrrrr from "surprising".............

Have never seen/shot a 60NPT either.................

Big deal ....... yawn!

By the way, Mart. That's a very nice looking rifle.

Reality ain't for everyone,as effortlessly quantify obliviously.

You ALMOST said something about a rifle,but the Whine and Excuses got in the way.

Laughing.............

Lemme connect all the dots,while you drool and use enough Imagination to Pretend you understand.

1000 words of Seven.................

Holy Cow!
My answer would have been -- anything between 4198 and 4895 on the burn chart.

That'll cover flames and noise..................(grin)

603,

Thanks. Once in a while I fall into a good deal.

Mart

There's no such thing as a "good" deal on a POS.

Hint.................

Of course there is. All value is relative, and everyone's personal situation is different. Not everyone needs, and not everyone is capable of gaining the full utility of a 5K rifle. You have some very nice rifles above, and I imagine they serve well in your particular niche. But not everyone lives and shoots in your niche, and may benefit from a different allocation of their assets then you.

You mean your Pretend ISN'T "real"?!? I am shocked!

Schit is schit and the very definition of false economy.

Hint.

In fairness...I am not much fun to try and keep pace with..............

As stated before, I have no one on ignore, neither real nor pretend.

Now who can't keep up?

In the above picture, your rifle second from the top looks pretty interesting. Would you care to share some details with us?

Looks ain't deceivin'.

SUCH a shame,that you are shy the grey matter to appreciate the hilarity of your Dumbfhuqqtitude..............

I know that would work�.and I know Im splitting hairs, because the partitions shoot into an inch all day long-excellent hunting accuracy, but the Barnes will do half that ( not that it matters away from the bench�) but I also prefer the performance on meat that Barnes gives, a lot less messy around the wound channel.
Kinda same-o same-o for lots of things. Its why god created blondes, brunettes and redheads, we all have our preferences.

I'd happily take a 1.25MOA Javelin,over a 1MOA Ping Pong Ball...because it'll reap non-lineal rewards in Precision(drift),impact velocity and terminal affects.

Win/win.

Nerf bullets ain't my cup of tea...............

They shoot right at 5/8 MOA, but .224 isn't legal for anything larger then coyotes in this state, so a decent game load is a nice, but not a must have for that rig.

The trade off between accuracy and BC has long been a shooters ban. Flat base bullet may be the most stable, but their BC's suck.

Funny schit!

I've lotsa Javelin Launchers that'll shoot in the .3's.

It'd sweeten the pot...if it were frowned upon..............

I'm sure you do, with a bolt gun and a .223/.223 AI chamber.

Use your Imagination and Pretend you do too.

Laughing!.............

So Schmuck....

a young scout just was given a Ruger American in 223 for making eagle scout by his proud family....have loaded him up 500 rounds of ammo to shoot the sage rats on his property.. but he wants to go after deer with it this season....

so since you are the self proclaimed 75 grain 223 guru, should we load him up some 75 grain A Maxes, or some 75 grain BTHPs....

they will be fueled with RL 15 or AR Comp....

Thanks for your 2 cents, for helping out a young Boy Scout...

Shefire,

I rather enjoy your Imagination and it's Pretend...especially when you go FULL Boy Scout and tug at heart strings. Laughing.

Curiously,I proclaimed nothing,but your insecurities are very WELL founded. Just saying.

As an aside,you made mention of a minimum of 25 rifles you "Hunt"/"use" and I find myself still waiting on their "results". Refresher here,to bolster your Imagination and jump start your Pretend.

Not sure a Deer can be killed with a 223.

Laughing!................

Well Gee there Schmuck....

Thanks for your input....Thought I'd ask him Royal Awesomeness.. since he is the biggest HE-Man on the World Wide Web, with half the game taken in Alaska and half the fish taken in Alaska, in the last 10 years falling to his awesome rifles with the Pirate Decals, and his mighty fish hooks...

But I understand his busy schedule... he was gracious enough to get up before 5 AM to grace us with his answer.. what more can a humble peasant ask for?

Thats okay tho your Royal Awesomeness.. I am sure young Boy Scout Carson will understand... he was just excited to go out hunting with him own rifle on his folks farm before he heads to boot camp at Great Lakes in January...

I'll load some up this afternoon and go out and test them out this afternoon and see which works best...just thought the Great OZ might like to share.....

As to the personal question about my 25 guns... I have NO guns.. Lost them in the Great Oregon Flood of 1925...Besides, I never get off the couch anyway, except to take a dump or a leak... you know that.....Got too much serious imagining and pretend to do, in between afternoon soap operas...

but to fuel your imagination since I know how much you really care...he's a pic someone took at a recent campfire get together down in New Mexico.. its me pretending to help one of the grand son's of a campfire member out, letting him shoot a Model 70 in 22.250 with a 28 inch Pac Nor barrel that I USE to own...

The young man ( who happens to be a Boy Scout...) and his step brother to be...( aged 11 and 12) were following my instructions and coaching, while shooting my 'use to own' lost rifle....they actually did alright! Coming in 3rd and 4th in a competition that included a dozen or more adults...

Generous campfire member DennisInAZ, even was gracious enough to waive his first place prize and let one of the boys who had his birthday the day before, take home the first place prize.. a 550 pack of 22 LR... to shoot in his new 10/22 Take Down rifle...

I tried to use what you would have said if you'd have been there... If you'd have instructed them, I am sure they would have came in first and second beating ALL of the adults...

but ya wanna picture of me "off the couch".. here ya go...



as far as me killing game? I don't shoot animals... I am saving them, so that can be done by His Royal Awesomeness...besides they'd rather give up their lives to the Greatest Guy in the World and on the Internet, than little old humble peasant Seafire.....

But thanks for the come back and have an awesome day impressing we campfire members with your awesome feats of accomplishment..

Like everyone here, I stand in AWE.. that you grace your subjects with your AWESOMENESS...we all are so humbled...

Addendum:

here's another of me at the Campfire Outing in New Mexico..busy trying to figure out where they put the damned trigger on these things...



Never could find it...DamnIT... too many moving parts on these things ya know.....

Tough to trump the humor of a Lying Clueless Whining Phuqq...doing her best,to line out her insecurities. Fascinating list and exceedingly wellfounded. Congratulations?!?

The only thing you shoot is your mouth and Imagination,though in no particular order.

PLEASE continue the Insecurity List,Whine List and Excuse List,in whatever manner best salves your realities.

It will be FUNNY!..............

ya got me all figured out Yoda....what can I say....

Although I have to give ya credit for the funny statement about shooting off one's mouth....especially the number of posts ya managed in the last few days.... how did ya manage that with all that time out in the woods killing everything... fishing up a storm and reloading and shooting thousands of rounds of whatever goes boom...

You are truly HIS Royal Awesomeness....no one compares to you, so that is why no one tries... it futile...

you shaving that bald head while looking in the mirror must be a truly orgasmic experience for you...getting to see yourself in the mirror and all...

You are truly WONDERFUL Yoda... TRULY WONDERFUL...

You can't say much,other than to fabricate more Excuses and add to the Whine List...while extolling Insecurity after Insecurity.

I have it on good authority,that I ain't much fun to keep pace with and that will only come as a "surprise" to you.

Didn't mean to horn you up,but I'll feign my "surprise" that's the way it always goes.

PS and by the way,Imitation is THE mot sincere form of Flattery.

Bless your heart.................

As I said Schtick...

ya got me all figured out....

Still it didn't stop me from erecting a shrine to your Holiness/Awesomeness in our living room right by the couch and TV, that I never get away from so as there is more of the GrEAT OUTdoors for you to hog....all to your self..

Here's our family's shrine to the Almighty Schtick...



Got it for 93 cents on close out at a K Mart that was closing down in Texas..... Cool ain't it? Its our family's pride and joy....

Ain't much to "figure".

You are simply "lucky" that Imagination and Pretend are free,so you can "afford" to "contribute"...................

You're just unsatisfy-able today aren't ya...

You must be wearing your platform shoes today and feeling 10 feet tall... demanding even more aasssss kissin from your fellow forum members than usual....

it's lonely at the top ain't it Schtick?

ain't easy bein you either....sort of like a Doberman in a Chihuahua's body....with a bulldog's chip on your shoulder...

Hey, but you'll always be "Schtick" to us here at my house...

Were you thumbing through my pics,as you were telling yourself how much you "don't care" for the 10,000,000th time? Hell...some day you may be able to make yourself even believe it?!? Nawwwwwww,it ain't in the cards.

Laughing!

You "hard chargers" are a hoot!...............

Hitting the bottle and crack pipe early today are we?

Evidently.... you're grasping...

but since you were asked a question and ya didn't care to answer it... I just got the info from another highly esteemed forum member.. minus all the Schtick Fanfare to follow...

but thanks for playing....and thanks for your time....even if it was a waste of it...

you can finish playing circle jerk with yourself here...
young Carson will be hunting with a load suggested by another forum member...

Search your Posts and count. During that time...be SURE to imitate.

Laughing!..................

To the OP, that new Nosler 64 gr Bonded Solid Base shoots great over a max load of H335 in my 223. I like the 55 gr Sierra GK too, but wanted a tougher bullet for large pigs. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to try the new bullet out yet.

You Dilldos and your Ping Pong Balls crack me up.

75'Max from a coupla days ago at a quarter mile or so.



Hint...............

The Nosler 64 grain bonded is impressive, to say the least on deer, I have heard it is as good on hogs�.


And for Stick, I took the 50 gr. Vmaxes in the .223AI out today and worked them at 400, 500, and 600 yds. They do indeed like to fly to the same spot.

Sure am glad I wasn't using that crappy H335 tho���.

The 75'Max has no equal.............

This is a thread about powder choices, NOT bullet choices. Get it right or you will remain on Double Secret Uber Pretend Ignore�


This is my final warning.

The bullet cited,as FANTASTIC as it is...do require powder.

Connecting dots,is all about connecting dots...................(grin)

Try some of those 53 grain V Maxes, with a higher BC and see what ya get...I found the 53s have it all over on both the 50s and 55s...with a better BC than the 60 V Max... which I think is still on the suspension list...

if the 50s were good the 53s are even more of a good thing...

my load is 25 grains of H 322... she's a scootin when she leaves the barrel....and my rifles find them more accurate and less finicky than the 50s are...I even found the 55s to be more accurate and less finicky than the 50s also...

The Cross-eyed/Drool Test is always compelling.

Laughing................

Props for getting in the kid picture.. But on a serious note, have you considered a man bra?

Sir,

Shefire is the rugged sort and you may or may not be on Imaginary Pretend Ignore. Secret Squirrel PM's may or may not be fired off.

You'll note that she's a whoooooooole bunch more,than a whoooooooooole bunch hesitant to dangle pics of herself...because even someone as STUPID as she,knows how FUNNY it is

That Reality very much collides with her Pretend....................

John, I have thought of the 53s a few times but Im stocked up on the 50s, and frankly after seeing what they do, accuracy wise, out to 600, if the 53s could shoot better than that, Im not a good enough shooter to wring it out of them�




Hows THAT for a run-on sentence?

My english teacher would be so proud.

Pass the 75's..................(hint)

How would those be in my 1 in 12?




I guess I could always fall back to the 1 in 8 somebody hounded me into buying�.