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I'd snug the action screws a bit tighter and give it another go and see what happens.

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Firstcoues, are you giving up on the LRAB? Saw your ad in the classifieds.


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Im going through the same thing at the moment with a Montana in .300 win. Shooting 180gr accubonds I almost always get two shots touching/almost same hole then the third shot is a flyer. Gonna try some different bullets this week to see if its the rifle or the projectile. If it is the rifle, then its back to the drawing board.


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It galls me that some gunsmiths are so arrogant that they won't admit that a customer's accuracy issue might be something THEY created.

I feel Casey's pain. He spent his money and has what I feel is an arrogant gunsmith.

Some of the gunsmiths I have had experiences with are not rifle looneys and don't even handload! Heck one guy is primarily a bow hunter! How can they be expected to understand when we complain of accuracy issues?

I sure liked hearing that Charlie Sisk figured out JB's issue so easily. He is my kind of gunsmith.


I don't think it would surprise many that I have encountered some very simple issues that should have been prevented by more care from the gunsmith. Bet other members could add to this horror list:

Poor crown:

I don't know of a single gunsmith around here that uses a borescope to verify the crown is good. Heck I had one crown that had a burr because the smith used a live center in the bore to support it for threading for a brake. I had to show him the burr with high magnification!



Bedding epoxy in blind holes:

Encountered this several times! One friend found this in a $7000 custom after tearing his hair out trying to make the gun shoot. He got pissed and tore the gun apart at the gunrange and inspected all pieces in bright sunlight. We called it the dreaded booger issue after that.



Action screw to bottom out in a blind hole:

Bedding the rifle lowered the action in the stock causing this issue.
------------
I have reached the point that IF a gunsmith does something for me I take the rifle apart and go through it before I shoot it.
I just cannot waste my time putting together a load if the rifle isn't sound.


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If your first two shots are nearly touching and consistent in POI the solution seems simple - kill what you are shooting at with bullet #1 and if necessary a well placed follow up. I only recall one time when the 3rd round came into play and in hindsight that animal was dead but didn't know it yet.

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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Firstcoues, are you giving up on the LRAB? Saw your ad in the classifieds.


I'm not giving up on them, but I want to test his theory.

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THIS....
Quote
Bedding.....................(grin)


Quote
My Smith said to try another bullet add they were doing that to him and other guys with his rifles.


You and the other guys need to try another smith.



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Couple of issues to check:

Bedding tops the list. To check the bedding for a right handed shooter. With your left hand, stand the rifle on it's butt. Next, grab the rifle with your left hand near the end of the forearm. With your left hand, Jam the tip of the index finger on your left hand between the barrel and the tip of the forearm. Now, loosen and tighten the front and rear guard screw. If you feel the action springing away from the stock, your gun is out of bed. In a perfect world, you should not feel more than .002 movement.

Check clearance on the magazine box. The box should freefloat between the floor plate and the action. If the floor plate is pushing up on the center of the action, it will cause stress on the action.

On Remingtons, if the trigger pins protrude enough to dig into the side of the stock, it will cause stress on the action. Also, if the Spring screw on the trigger housing is backed out on the trigger to the point to where it is touching the stock, it will cause stress.

Leupold a few years back made some screws out of spec on their scope bases. I have had a similar issue on a Rifle, and took the rifle completely apart. I found hash marks on the bottom of the front scope base screw indicating that the screw was digging into the threads on the barrel tenon. This will screw up accuracy big time. When installing scope bases on an action for the first time, I always tighten up the front scope base screw, then remove the screw looking at the bottom of the screw, insuring that there is clearance when the screw is tightened down.

After chasing down the mechanical things, next is seating depth, load, and primer choice. Other than mechanical issues, weak primer choice for the type of powder can be an issue, however this is really grasping for straws. I have seen a little hotter primer cure this type of issue, but it is rare indeed.

When this type of thing happens to me on a new barrel, I check the mechanicals, use a known scope of proven quality,playing with seating depth, change primers, then change powders.

I start off with the bullets kissing the lands, always! If I don't get bug holes at this point, thenI will go to .010, 0.30, 0.050, then 0.100 bullet jump on NON Barnes bullets. On custom barrels, I have not had to jump through these hoops, this is what happens on factory barrels.

With all the above crap don't over look the fact that the barrel does not like that bullet or like the powder you are using. I have got trapped into trying to make a barrel shoot a particular bullet or powder when the barrel may like a different kind.

It does not take a lot of shots to determine if you are on the right track, two shot groups will get you there in a hurry unless you are shooting in gusty winds. When gusty, you might want to move the target into 50 yards...you can still get your initial testing done at 50 when you are pinched for time with windy conditions.

If the bullets are not going into a tiny bug hole, you are not there yet.

Last edited by keith; 08/18/14.
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I wouldn't conclude anything about a gun after only shooting one particular bullet.

That being said, I would guess bedding too. I have a gun that was doing the same thing with several bullets, sent it off for real bedding. I didn't want to dick with it anymore.




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I gotta admit,I do enjoy watching folks chase their tails...with black & white staring them in the face.

This is great!..............


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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If those were Bergers I would reply "awesome groups!"

laugh


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Now you don't know any more than before you asked the question!! crazy shocked


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Where do shots 4 through 10 go?




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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#2, seat your bullets deeper.

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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Where do shots 4 through 10 go?


Very sensible approach Bob.
Too much emphasis on single groups, which is unfortunately "the usual" for range assessment and inadequate to determine a root cause.


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Originally Posted by AussieGunWriter
Originally Posted by BobinNH
Where do shots 4 through 10 go?


Very sensible approach Bob.
Too much emphasis on single groups, which is unfortunately "the usual" for range assessment and inadequate to determine a root cause.


AGW: Exactly.

I don't shoot a lot of 10 shot groups at 100 yards,because I get restless and anxious to get it to longer distance; but when a rifle is new I will grind it out to see whether those shots that are "out" are part of the rifles normal grouping.More rounds will tell us that.

Also,100 yard groups "lie" a lot and I recall one rifle that shot tight 100 yard groups for 3 shots, but there was a gremlin....one shot was always on the low side,yet the group was tight.Shooting at 400 yards showed that shot to be WAY low and well out of the group; vertical was not consistent and the rifle was double grouping.It was the load.

RCamuglia's Audette Ladder might have showed this and that's another way to find this stuff out. I was doing that but in a different way.


Either way when a rifle and load is new, and behaving oddly, I increase number of shots to find out what gives....and the quicker I get off the bags at 100 yards the better off I am and the faster I figure out what's happening.

Last edited by BobinNH; 08/22/14.



The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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Casey,
Are these the bullets you previously posted on that were deforming while seating? There may be some internal damage in your fliers...
Mike


Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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It's getting even FUNNIER,which I never saw coming.

Bedding.................(hint)


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Mike,

Yes. But that was solved with been turning. Thanks Dennis!

Stick, Smith has the rifle with the first instruction being to please check bedding.

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I'd of wiped my own ass and cut to the chase.

Hint.................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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