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Campfire Ranger
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Rugers, winchester, FN, ...
Which higher reliability action and why...
Thanks
Last edited by Spotshooter; 08/23/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Doesn't anybody proofread anymore?
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Campfire Ranger
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Griz, I favor the Rutgers action due to the Dartmouth claw extractor and the Yale lock-up of the lugs. Columbia Brown designed the classic stock with the Cornell cheek piece. I have a primo English inspired piece of walnut with a touch of red in the finish, almost Harvard beet. Penn it down, Rutgers is the one I want on the field of that group. 
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I stopped using the one (spell check) on my I pad because it was changing out all the hunting terms that I did not understand.
Last edited by Spotshooter; 08/23/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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No harm, no foul.  I doubt spell check would have caught that anyway.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Griz, I favor the Rutgers action due to the Dartmouth claw extractor and the Yale lock-up of the lugs. Columbia Brown designed the classic stock with the Cornell check piece. I have a primo English inspired piece of walnut with a touch of red in the finish, almost Harvard beet. Penn it down, Rutgers is the one I want on the field of that group. What's a check piece? Oh, the irony.
MAGA
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Which one of you is Fill?
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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Your full. 
If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli
American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
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Campfire Tracker
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And I am still confused 
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Tracker
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Rugers, winchester, FN, ...
Which higher reliability action and why...
Thanks
With a little knowledgable attention there is little difference in any of them but as they come from the factory The "weakness" of the Rugers is their small recoil lug and a safety on the action that possibly could be accidentally be bumped when working the action quickly The "weakness" of the new Winchesters is their pressed on bolt handle and cutout on the barrel for the extractor that can sometimes cause a jam The 'weakness" of the FN's is that they are no longer being made
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Tracker
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Wow... Just when you thought you've seen it all.
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Campfire Tracker
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Remark intended for Spotshooter.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Phil. I remember you replying to a question about "what Action" for bear.
Seemed like you were saying FN Mauser actions where one of the better starting points. I wanted to get a better understand of that, I really don't know squat about Mauser actions.
I am wanting to learn about this because I'm building semi custom rifles anymore so I think it's something I should look into.
Thanks,
Spot
Last edited by Spotshooter; 08/23/14.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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And I am still confused The reason you might be confused is the OP made a small typographical error in his first post. That led to what most felt was a little harmless fooling around on a 100* day. And there you have it.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Ok, I'm guilty. I couldn't help myself. Griz threw me the bait, and , well you know the rest. For those that didn't catch it, I worked in the names of all the Ivy League schools in the satire to go with Rutgers.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I'll give you credit. It was kinda funny, especially your typo.
"Be sure you're right. Then go ahead." Fess Parker as Davy Crockett
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Campfire Ranger
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Yeah, I fixed that. Fingers don't always obey.
"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." Han Solo
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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So after doing some research I found it parts what I was looking for, which was that the FN action didn't really have flaws other than the fact that they were only case hardened.
A few people point to the early weatherby Mauser actions as the best Mauser type commerical action ever made
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Campfire Ranger
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And only case hardening isn't necessarily a flaw as it is able to stretch a bit before it goes kaboom. At least according to a friendly gunsmith who has seen a bunch of actions.
Retired cat herder.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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KISS. Paul Mauser really got it right the second time around ('98). The 95 is a POS IMO. Everything since has been arguable "improvement", with the Win 70 pre 64 (I gotta get me one of those sometime...) and the Springfield '03-A3 (had two) being the best of the lot, the Ruger77 being PDG, the Sako being way down the list (wouldn't own one, having gunsmithed a number of them - I'd even rather have a Savage- or a Weatherby!). I also own Rem 700 and 725 (non-Mauser actions), as well. None of them ( '98's or take-offs or Rems), properly maintained, have failed me in the 30-40 years I've owned them. I really should buy a new rifle....
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Thank you Sir, that's what I was looking for... Spot Rugers, winchester, FN, ...
Which higher reliability action and why...
Thanks
With a little knowledgable attention there is little difference in any of them but as they come from the factory The "weakness" of the Rugers is their small recoil lug and a safety on the action that possibly could be accidentally be bumped when working the action quickly The "weakness" of the new Winchesters is their pressed on bolt handle and cutout on the barrel for the extractor that can sometimes cause a jam The 'weakness" of the FN's is that they are no longer being made
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Campfire Outfitter
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KISS. Paul Mauser really got it right the second time around ('98). The 95 is a POS IMO. Everything since has been arguable "improvement", with the Win 70 pre 64 (I gotta get me one of those sometime...) and the Springfield '03-A3 (had two) being the best of the lot, the Ruger77 being PDG, the Sako being way down the list (wouldn't own one, having gunsmithed a number of them - I'd even rather have a Savage- or a Weatherby!). I also own Rem 700 and 725 (non-Mauser actions), as well. None of them ( '98's or take-offs or Rems), properly maintained, have failed me in the 30-40 years I've owned them. I really should buy a new rifle.... I have had a Sako Finnbear L61 (I think) action for 30 years and have carried it hundred of days both in a scabbard and in my hand, killed dozens of head of game and it is on the third barrel. I have never had a single complaint about it. It sports a good trigger, great accuracy, good looks, it's long enough to shoot full length magnums seated out pretty far and extracts pretty efficiently. I don't have an FN mauser action but would love to. I can't find any problems with the Sako though.
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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But, but, but Tony Russ says in his Alaska Bear Hunting book that Mausers should be avoided because they have a tendency to jam!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Outfitter
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The Sako L61R is only a push feed action. The one I am selling only has a trigger safety and not a 3 position safety that controls the firing pin like the M70's.
I got it for $50 back in the 60's and supplied a fine blank and had a smith make a custom stock and install the 375 H&H barrel I supplied. Later I learned that CRF is far more desirable for a hunting rifle and now it's for sale.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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KISS. Paul Mauser really got it right the second time around ('98). The 95 is a POS IMO. Everything since has been arguable "improvement", with the Win 70 pre 64 (I gotta get me one of those sometime...) and the Springfield '03-A3 (had two) being the best of the lot, the Ruger77 being PDG, the Sako being way down the list (wouldn't own one, having gunsmithed a number of them - I'd even rather have a Savage- or a Weatherby!). I also own Rem 700 and 725 (non-Mauser actions), as well. None of them ( '98's or take-offs or Rems), properly maintained, have failed me in the 30-40 years I've owned them. I really should buy a new rifle.... I have had a Sako Finnbear L61 (I think) action for 30 years and have carried it hundred of days both in a scabbard and in my hand, killed dozens of head of game and it is on the third barrel. I have never had a single complaint about it. It sports a good trigger, great accuracy, good looks, it's long enough to shoot full length magnums seated out pretty far and extracts pretty efficiently. I don't have an FN mauser action but would love to. I can't find any problems with the Sako though. You just haven't spent enough time on the floor looking for those itty-bitty bolt parts that are supposed to (and do) make the bolt action "smoother"... The M98 is to the bolt world what the Kalishnikov is to the auto-world.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Never had any itt bitty parts fall out! I know it is push feed but it is pretty dang reliable; even feeding Weatherbys
NRA Benefactor Member
Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't.
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Campfire Regular
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But, but, but Tony Russ says in his Alaska Bear Hunting book that Mausers should be avoided because they have a tendency to jam! Tony has a lot of "interesting" things to say in his books
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The 'weakness" of the FN's is that they are no longer being made Although the machines used by FN are still operated in Serbia by a company called Zastava. Not the fine finish the rifles made in Herstal were given, but still...the base is given
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Campfire Tracker
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The rifle I have probably carried and used the most over the past 30 years is my 458 that was made by Zastava. They are quite similar to the FN actions that Sako used, with the same trigger.
According to Speed's book Mauser even commissioned Zastave to build M-98 actions for them, complete with Mauser marking, during the 1970's.
Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.comAnyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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But, but, but Tony Russ says in his Alaska Bear Hunting book that Mausers should be avoided because they have a tendency to jam! Tony has a lot of "interesting" things to say in his books You are too kind! No, really, TOO KIND!!!
Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
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Campfire Tracker
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Mausers certainly do jam when the cartridges are loaded backwards and am surprised that Paul didn't address that in the improved 98 design...
Perhaps some of the mauser derivatives like Rutger has that figured out.
Will test that for you all once I wear out the 98s.
Defend the Constitution
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Mausers certainly do jam when the cartridges are loaded backwards and am surprised that Paul didn't address that in the improved 98 design...
Belts on cartridges do help with that when things get crazy, fingers are numb, (and/or minds get numb).
Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
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Campfire Tracker
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No doubt it was a German idea passed on to the Brits...:)
Defend the Constitution
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Spotshooter,
I read that the Southgate Weatherby actions were made by FN using their superb 300 action.
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Campfire Tracker
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Were any of these wonders of engineering produced in left hand configs?
I do not entertain hypotheticals. The world itself is vexing enough. -- Col. Stonehill
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Talus in Arizona,
you can still get Zastava bolt action up to the 458 win mag ...
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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This is a slight aside.
What is the opinion of the CZ550 rifles.
Any experience with them? How do they handle the cold and wet conditions? Are they reliable? Is the set trigger too complicated?
What good points and weaknesses do they have?
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Jorge01,
im not the Phil but a Phil lol.
good CRF version but i still prefer the Zastava.
they accomodate magnum action in an easier way.
they re not that bad but i think they re a little on the heavy side, the magazine trap is made of plastic if it bothers you, specific mounts or rings.
trigger set not complicated but i prefer an adjustable one position.
never heard any issues in the cold nor in the wet.
hope it helps.
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