Home Forums Birds & Dogs Shotguns recomend a new over under please

huh?

A 12 is little advantage-if any-over a smaller gauge for Grouse if one can't come close to putting the shot in the front third of the Bird. 8 pellets into that area-and most of the time less-of the proper size to penetrate and inch or so will flop heads and they will be dead on the ground. Most of the Birds I breast out will have less than 8 shot into the front third.

The number of pellets in the smaller gauges are more than enough to do the job.


Addition:
Choke for choke the pattern doesn't get bigger with a 12 than say a 28. There will definitely be more shot inside the pattern with a 12, but a well pointed 28 will kill just as well at the ranges most Grouse are taken. Plus it will in most cases with American offerings handle better.

Late to this party but gotta chime in here.

Will echo what others have said.... you shouldn't ever use "grouse gun and trap gun" in the same sentence.
They are two entirely different animals. Dittos on the one hand carry for the grouse gun. I hunt grouse in the Upper Midwest 40-50 days a year. In my best covers, you carry with one hand and part the popple, birch, balsam, grape vines, AO, DW and various other brush with the other. LIGHT and QUICK is the medicine for the GG. In my world, a good GG isn't a target gun at all. That said, it will serve adequately for informal skeet, SC and 5-stand. I used mine for two of these games last night.

The trap gun is the opposite, relatively heavy, long barrels, and stocked completely different than a bird gun too.

IN O/Us, take a good long look at Beretta's too. They have many models of O/Us, something for everyone. The two B's are the most popular O/Us in these parts and there is a reason for that.

Have fun gun shopping.

NB

8 pellets sounds like the rule for turkey hunting kills to me. Never heard that for grouse. One or two pellets are all it takes to knock a grouse down.

It seemed like more pellets get through the leaves and popple brush with the 12 versus when I used my 20. Just my impression.

Many agree with two. For head flop dead in the air, I would prefer more.

My vote would be for a beretta silver pigeon. I beleive it comes in at about 7 3/4 lbs in 12 GA and handle better for me than the brownings, Although I have not handled the 725 which is slimmer than the old citori. But really for me a grouse gun is a 26 inch beretta O/U 20 GA.

So is it just a fantasy to get a single shotgun that a casual every-other-week trap shooter on a work buddy-beer-drinking team that I practice with for my few grouse hunts a year?

My thoughts were to practice with the gun I hunt with...

It seems like you guys are enablers to make me buy more shotguns than my wife thinks I need ;-)

If you want to practice for grouse hunting, IMHO the clay games of skeet, SC and 5-stand have much more realistic grouse shot simulations, at least in my neck of the woods. You really need tighter chokes for trap for another thing.

And its a 24HRCF tradition to encourage guys to buy as many guns as they can possibly get away with!!

Guys - I have to come clean and admit some things...

My search for a new shotgun is because my savage fox 12 ga SXS is wearing out and I need to find parts & gunsmith willing to work on it. My old retired gunsmith suggested to put the sxs out to pasture and get a quality O/U for high volume shooting.
I really enjoyed shooting my fox on trap and the fact I'm the only SXS shooter in the place. Its not a perfect grouse gun, but I like it and shoot it well.
Having said that - I got its little sister late last fall - a savage fox 20 gauage and shoot it as well and its a bit lighter.
So technically I am covered for grouse with the savage 20 and my 6.5# autoloader 12. The SXS is my wife's so I can use it when she's not using it AND I have her permission!

Your advice has told me:
Several places to shop have been PM"d to me. Thanks.

Other forums to read have been PM's to me. Thanks.

Pretty much stay with Browning or Beretta in my price range.

A good trap gun and grouse gun are different. I want one that leans towards hunting for now. I can grab my other two shotguns if the weight starts to hurt the grouse hunting.

I'm trying to replace the volumes of shotguns in my collection with one or two quality peices that I shoot well is a noble thought. I will have special puropose guns anyways.

You're all a bunch of gun buying enablers.

There I confessed.

Should I be ashamed?

We do an occasional sporting clays shoot at the Horse & hunt club. It humbles you after you get cocky on the trap field...

Since this seems to be a topic for everyone to toss their $.02 in for free................ here's wharer I'd go on you budget:

I'd do some looking around til I found a NICE used Superposed Lightning 20 ga. and POUNCE ON IT .

Gotta agree with Mr. Battue that, on grouse at typical grouse ranges under typical grouse conditions, the 12 will be of very slight advantage in pellet count over smaller bores. The added weight of the 12 will over-shadow any advantage it gains in payload.

There are a few 12 gauges around right at 6 lbs if you look long and hard. It would be a hunting gun though rather than a target gun.

12 Gauge Grouse shotguns under 6 are defined by the Winchester Model 59. Few are its equal and you don't have to look all that long or hard to find one.

Guys,

Any issues with a standard old citori? I'm watching one on Armslist at a great price that would let me leave it as a dedicated trap gun and occasional duck or grouse hunter. The price is good enough that it would leave enough money to get a lightweight 20 on the side.

Details on deal:
Browning citori
28" feild model
3.5" chamber version
has tubes & wrench. Supposedly shot 250 times.
$900
Normally retail about $1600 at Dicks
Probably has inertia triggers.

I know its not a 30" target gun, but it could be a good compromise for trap & duck with those specs.
H

A field Citori is NOT a trap gun. Clays, perhaps. Skeet, maybe, but trap requires a different high comb stock for most folks.

I have owned perhaps a dozen 12 ga OU shotguns.. I like Browning Superposed guns, but they run heavy. Citori is bank vault strong, but heavier yet. Winchester 101 pigeon grades are nice, but they were not "it" for me. Forget Rugers and most of the economy imports.

For me, I found the field upland bird gun years ago in a delightful Browning 20 Superposed Pigeon Grade. (It does have inertia triggers. The 20s are light). I finally became happy with a 12 in a Beretta SP IV. Attractive, light enough for field use, very OK for occasional clays, but it is neither stocked for or heavy enough for trap.

I am not a proponent of long barrels on a field gun. My 20 has 26 1/2" and my 12 has 28". A bunch of 26" 12s made me choose 28" for that gauge. They need to be a bit longer.

For what you described, both use and budget, I would recommend a Citori Trap 12 and a Beretta 20 field gun. Careful shopping should net you two nice used guns within budget or very close to it. Screw in chokes for each would lend a lot of versatility.

Best wishes,,

Jack