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I'm in the market for a new O/U for hunting & trap shooting. I'm a every-other-week trap shooter so it has to be a field gun first for grouse hunting or rare pheasant hunt.
I have a light weight autoloader already so a 7.5# or slightly lighter O/U is the weight range I'm looking at.
12 gauge - 28" or 26" preferred.
Like the idea of mechanical triggers over inertia type.

Models that catch my eye are, but I need to go find some to handle, are:
Browning cynergy field (plain butt pad appeals more to me)
Browning citori - except the inertia triggers
Browning 725 - like the mechanical triggers and inflex recoil pads
Ruger red label - new one. American made, price is great
Don't know which Beretta's to even look at.
Cz's - maybe... not sure on them or potential resale.
Franchi's - same deal as CZ.

Prefer to stay under $2500, ideally under $2000.
Not sure if I should do the "feather" models in Browning, but this is my grouse gun and it will only get heavier with age...

Give me suggestions guys.
Thanks in advance.


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The Brownings are fine but seems everyone has one, my buddy shoots for CZ and cant say enough good things about them. IIRC its not all that heavy and could also be a field gun. I guess we need to know if its a target gun you will hunt with or a hunting gun your gonna shoot targets with, if its targets 1st get 30 inch tubes, if its a field gun get 30 inch tubes.............

Last edited by passport; 08/24/14.

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Originally Posted by passport
The Brownings are fine but seems everyone has one, my buddy shoots for CZ and cant say enough good things about them. IIRC its not all that heavy and could also be a field gun. I guess we need to know if its a target gun you will hunt with or a hunting gun your gonna shoot targets with, if its targets 1st get 20 inch tubes, if its a field gun get 30 inch tubes.............


Its a hunting gun that I will trap shoot with.
Did you mean 28" or 26" when you said 20 inch?


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Of the Browning, I like the 725. Personally, I would buy used and save a bundle. I would either go Browning or Beretta but you might get something else nice used.

I recently looked at a Ruger and it was the biggest piece of loose floppy hard to close crap I have ever held. It was new at Gander Mountain and not near the quality of old Red Labels. It fell open when you levered it and wiggled around in the action and went back easy to the lock but you had to use a knee to completely lock it. They showed it to me as an example of crap.

The CZ's are good guns but feel clunky to me and sometimes you might get one not regulated well.

I would strongly consider a 6 lb 20 ga.

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Originally Posted by humdinger
Originally Posted by passport
The Brownings are fine but seems everyone has one, my buddy shoots for CZ and cant say enough good things about them. IIRC its not all that heavy and could also be a field gun. I guess we need to know if its a target gun you will hunt with or a hunting gun your gonna shoot targets with, if its targets 1st get 20 inch tubes, if its a field gun get 30 inch tubes.............


Its a hunting gun that I will trap shoot with.
Did you mean 28" or 26" when you said 20 inch?


I ment 30, 26 are useless, 28's are ok if you cant get 30's

Last edited by passport; 08/24/14.

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I love my Cynergy 20...with the 26" tubes. I hate long barrels on any gun, but especially a hunting gun. To each their own.

As for the CZ...they are Turkish. Pretty, but still Turkish.

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Should I check out the new Winchester 101?
Is it just a plain Jane citori?


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It's tough to beat a Browning Citori in that price range. They've been around a long time and have proven durable and reliable. I personally don't believe a trap gun and a field gun are the same animal. Maybe you can break a few trap targets with a field gun, but a steady diet of trap targets with a light field gun isn't much fun and carrying a 9 lb. trap gun in the field doesn't work out too well either. You can buy a used Remington 870 or Browning BT99 and still have plenty left over for a good Citori field gun. A possible compromise would be one of the Browning Sporting Clay models. Take Passports advice on the 30" barrels, unless most of your hunting is grouse and woodcock in heavy cover.

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I looked at a browning 725 sporting clays model and it fit me like a target rifle! I could see hunting with it, but do the barrel porting get real loud like a rifle?

Barrel length... I lean towards 28 as a compromise, but it doesn't seem to matter out grouse hunting because the cover isn't that tight.

Thanks for the input. Keep throwing out options


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Yes, louder than crap but not as loud as a high power rifle. Trust me, look hard at 30 inch tubes. Might seem long now but the OAL is the same as an auto with 28 inch tubes, plus it will make for a much better target gun.

I would like to see your grouse cover, were not all that far away and mine is nasty thick, then again we don't have any birds either. Maybe the cover is too thick! smile


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passport,
30" is on the radar now and your point about action length is spot on.

In my early years of grouse hunting, I would swing into trees and such, but I've learned to stop where I can swing and be ready to shoot. Our farm was logged 20 years ago so the popple is thinning out so the cover isn't as tight now too. Need to find some more hunting spots.
The only time i've ever cussed a long gun was when I hunted a popple stand where we bulldozed off the popple 3 years earlier and you could only carry the gun vertical and not even swing. It was jungle combat point shooting!

I'm hoping the grouse population is up again. I've taken up duck hunting to fill the voids of the down cycle in grouse hunting. Duck hunting is way more work than grouse, but my duck hunting friend says grouse hunting is way more tiring than duck hunting...


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Duck hunting takes more "stuff" than grouse hunting. I like the ability to grab my dog and a handful of shells and go, no boat, no decoys, no nothing, just Max and I. If there is anything easier I sure don't know what it is. Just wish we had more birds. In any event its time afield with my dog and that does not suck.

A 725 with 30's would be a dam fine do all shooter.


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My grouse hunting is even quicker - game vest and gun! no dog. Kind of wish I had one, but my situation doesn't permit it.

Duck hunting is just to go with my buddy and to experience a different type of hunt.

Alright then - 725 with 30" barrels is on the list.
Any berettas or anything else I need to consider?



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Originally Posted by humdinger
I'm in the market for a new O/U for hunting & trap shooting. I'm a every-other-week trap shooter so it has to be a field gun first for grouse hunting or rare pheasant hunt.
I have a light weight autoloader already so a 7.5# or slightly lighter O/U is the weight range I'm looking at.
Someone else will be looking also.


A 7.5 pound Ruffed Grouse gun, unless you are extremely strong, is not a Grouse gun that will become a favorite.


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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by humdinger
I'm in the market for a new O/U for hunting & trap shooting. I'm a every-other-week trap shooter so it has to be a field gun first for grouse hunting or rare pheasant hunt.
I have a light weight autoloader already so a 7.5# or slightly lighter O/U is the weight range I'm looking at.
Someone else will be looking also.


A 7.5 pound Ruffed Grouse gun, unless you are extremely strong, is not a Grouse gun that will become a favorite.


My grouse hunts rarley go over 2-3 hours and I carry a 8# sxs now so weight hasn't been an issue, but I will keep this in mind. Just too busy taking care of the home place when I'm up north to block out any more time than that.
Maybe get the feather version!


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Bingo.

Once you have gone long and light, I doubt if you will think 8 is all that enjoyable. wink

Last edited by battue; 08/25/14.

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I don't know, I cant shoot those lightweight guns worth a dam. My 11-87 is 8 lbs + and I have no issue with it, carry it all day long.


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You carry 8 lbs all day, most of it in one hand In the Grouse thickets following a flusher and you are a stud.

Most are not.

Last edited by battue; 08/25/14.

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Well you guys are getting me convinced I will get... 2 shotguns eventually. I missed a good used beretta ringneck 20 that would be a nice light weight grouser. Although I like a 12 better for grouse just to put more shot in the air!


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8 or so-and often less-well placed shot will bring a Grouse to the table. wink


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Originally Posted by battue
8 or so-and often less-well placed shot will bring a Grouse to the table. wink


huh?


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A 12 is little advantage-if any-over a smaller gauge for Grouse if one can't come close to putting the shot in the front third of the Bird. 8 pellets into that area-and most of the time less-of the proper size to penetrate and inch or so will flop heads and they will be dead on the ground. Most of the Birds I breast out will have less than 8 shot into the front third.

The number of pellets in the smaller gauges are more than enough to do the job.


Addition:
Choke for choke the pattern doesn't get bigger with a 12 than say a 28. There will definitely be more shot inside the pattern with a 12, but a well pointed 28 will kill just as well at the ranges most Grouse are taken. Plus it will in most cases with American offerings handle better.



Last edited by battue; 08/25/14.

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Late to this party but gotta chime in here.

Will echo what others have said.... you shouldn't ever use "grouse gun and trap gun" in the same sentence. wink
They are two entirely different animals. Dittos on the one hand carry for the grouse gun. I hunt grouse in the Upper Midwest 40-50 days a year. In my best covers, you carry with one hand and part the popple, birch, balsam, grape vines, AO, DW and various other brush with the other. LIGHT and QUICK is the medicine for the GG. In my world, a good GG isn't a target gun at all. That said, it will serve adequately for informal skeet, SC and 5-stand. I used mine for two of these games last night.

The trap gun is the opposite, relatively heavy, long barrels, and stocked completely different than a bird gun too.

IN O/Us, take a good long look at Beretta's too. They have many models of O/Us, something for everyone. The two B's are the most popular O/Us in these parts and there is a reason for that.

Have fun gun shopping. grin

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Originally Posted by battue
A 12 is little advantage-if any-over a smaller gauge for Grouse if one can't come close to putting the shot in the front third of the Bird. 8 pellets into that area-and most of the time less-of the proper size to penetrate and inch or so will flop heads and they will be dead on the ground. Most of the Birds I breast out will have less than 8 shot into the front third.

The number of pellets in the smaller gauges are more than enough to do the job.


Addition:
Choke for choke the pattern doesn't get bigger with a 12 than say a 28. There will definitely be more shot inside the pattern with a 12, but a well pointed 28 will kill just as well at the ranges most Grouse are taken. Plus it will in most cases with American offerings handle better.




8 pellets sounds like the rule for turkey hunting kills to me. Never heard that for grouse. One or two pellets are all it takes to knock a grouse down.

It seemed like more pellets get through the leaves and popple brush with the 12 versus when I used my 20. Just my impression.

Last edited by humdinger; 08/26/14.

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Many agree with two. For head flop dead in the air, I would prefer more.


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My vote would be for a beretta silver pigeon. I beleive it comes in at about 7 3/4 lbs in 12 GA and handle better for me than the brownings, Although I have not handled the 725 which is slimmer than the old citori. But really for me a grouse gun is a 26 inch beretta O/U 20 GA.


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So is it just a fantasy to get a single shotgun that a casual every-other-week trap shooter on a work buddy-beer-drinking team that I practice with for my few grouse hunts a year?

My thoughts were to practice with the gun I hunt with...

It seems like you guys are enablers to make me buy more shotguns than my wife thinks I need ;-)


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Originally Posted by humdinger

My thoughts were to practice with the gun I hunt with...

It seems like you guys are enablers to make me buy more shotguns than my wife thinks I need ;-)


If you want to practice for grouse hunting, IMHO the clay games of skeet, SC and 5-stand have much more realistic grouse shot simulations, at least in my neck of the woods. You really need tighter chokes for trap for another thing.

And its a 24HRCF tradition to encourage guys to buy as many guns as they can possibly get away with!! whistle


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Guys - I have to come clean and admit some things...

My search for a new shotgun is because my savage fox 12 ga SXS is wearing out and I need to find parts & gunsmith willing to work on it. My old retired gunsmith suggested to put the sxs out to pasture and get a quality O/U for high volume shooting.
I really enjoyed shooting my fox on trap and the fact I'm the only SXS shooter in the place. Its not a perfect grouse gun, but I like it and shoot it well.
Having said that - I got its little sister late last fall - a savage fox 20 gauage and shoot it as well and its a bit lighter.
So technically I am covered for grouse with the savage 20 and my 6.5# autoloader 12. The SXS is my wife's so I can use it when she's not using it AND I have her permission!

Your advice has told me:
Several places to shop have been PM"d to me. Thanks.

Other forums to read have been PM's to me. Thanks.

Pretty much stay with Browning or Beretta in my price range.

A good trap gun and grouse gun are different. I want one that leans towards hunting for now. I can grab my other two shotguns if the weight starts to hurt the grouse hunting.

I'm trying to replace the volumes of shotguns in my collection with one or two quality peices that I shoot well is a noble thought. I will have special puropose guns anyways.

You're all a bunch of gun buying enablers.

There I confessed.

Should I be ashamed?

Last edited by humdinger; 08/26/14.

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Originally Posted by Natty_Bumpo
Originally Posted by humdinger

My thoughts were to practice with the gun I hunt with...

It seems like you guys are enablers to make me buy more shotguns than my wife thinks I need ;-)


If you want to practice for grouse hunting, IMHO the clay games of skeet, SC and 5-stand have much more realistic grouse shot simulations, at least in my neck of the woods. You really need tighter chokes for trap for another thing.

And its a 24HRCF tradition to encourage guys to buy as many guns as they can possibly get away with!! whistle


We do an occasional sporting clays shoot at the Horse & hunt club. It humbles you after you get cocky on the trap field...


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Since this seems to be a topic for everyone to toss their $.02 in for free................ here's wharer I'd go on you budget:

I'd do some looking around til I found a NICE used Superposed Lightning 20 ga. and POUNCE ON IT .

Gotta agree with Mr. Battue that, on grouse at typical grouse ranges under typical grouse conditions, the 12 will be of very slight advantage in pellet count over smaller bores. The added weight of the 12 will over-shadow any advantage it gains in payload.


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There are a few 12 gauges around right at 6 lbs if you look long and hard. It would be a hunting gun though rather than a target gun.

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12 Gauge Grouse shotguns under 6 are defined by the Winchester Model 59. Few are its equal and you don't have to look all that long or hard to find one.

Last edited by battue; 08/31/14.

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Guys,

Any issues with a standard old citori? I'm watching one on Armslist at a great price that would let me leave it as a dedicated trap gun and occasional duck or grouse hunter. The price is good enough that it would leave enough money to get a lightweight 20 on the side.

Details on deal:
Browning citori
28" feild model
3.5" chamber version
has tubes & wrench. Supposedly shot 250 times.
$900
Normally retail about $1600 at Dicks
Probably has inertia triggers.

I know its not a 30" target gun, but it could be a good compromise for trap & duck with those specs.
H

Last edited by humdinger; 09/03/14.

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A field Citori is NOT a trap gun. Clays, perhaps. Skeet, maybe, but trap requires a different high comb stock for most folks.

I have owned perhaps a dozen 12 ga OU shotguns.. I like Browning Superposed guns, but they run heavy. Citori is bank vault strong, but heavier yet. Winchester 101 pigeon grades are nice, but they were not "it" for me. Forget Rugers and most of the economy imports.

For me, I found the field upland bird gun years ago in a delightful Browning 20 Superposed Pigeon Grade. (It does have inertia triggers. The 20s are light). I finally became happy with a 12 in a Beretta SP IV. Attractive, light enough for field use, very OK for occasional clays, but it is neither stocked for or heavy enough for trap.

I am not a proponent of long barrels on a field gun. My 20 has 26 1/2" and my 12 has 28". A bunch of 26" 12s made me choose 28" for that gauge. They need to be a bit longer.

For what you described, both use and budget, I would recommend a Citori Trap 12 and a Beretta 20 field gun. Careful shopping should net you two nice used guns within budget or very close to it. Screw in chokes for each would lend a lot of versatility.

Best wishes,,

Jack

Last edited by jt402; 09/03/14.

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