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Recently picked up a Ruger 77/44 to complement my SBH. It is light, slick and plenty accurate for its purpose. I am keeping it iron sighted and will probably take it hunting this year with the SBH.

Lately, I've been perusing info on the .444 and it sure is tempting. I won't go into the whole .45-70 vs. .444 debate b/c the reason I'm looking at the Trip is for bullet uniformity.

Stanton's three part article on BTB really whetted my appetite. Can't find brass but my local SW has dies and factory ammo (expensive) from which to obtain brass. MS got superb accuracy from his marlins with heavy cast which is what I would be aiming for.

Is it a worth chasing or am I better off being happy with the Ruger which will certainly do the job and with less weight? Is the .444 just redundancy with added recoil?

Sure seems like it would be a fun cartridge to take up Muley/elk and/or bear hunting in the timber....


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The 77/44 is more of a brush gun than any leveraction, it handles like a dream. I have three 444 "Outfitters" and can't tell you they do anything a 44 can't.

77/44, Hell yeah!

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The 77/44 synthetic stock kicks harder than a Marlin 444 by a substantial margin.

To be quite honest, you have about the perfect Big Bore Combo when considering the range you'll be using them. I think your 77/44 deserves a scope.

Last edited by JohnnyLoco; 08/24/14.
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I can only tell you what I'd do, and that's if you want it, get it.

If you do get one, I'd try for one with the tighter twist. That big case just begs to sling heavies, and you can still shoot 240s/265s. A .444 with a 300 grain (or heavier) hardcast is a beast.

Insofar as deer, pig, or black bear hunting, the 77/44 is enough, but I would feel better with a trip4 on the bigger animals such as elk, moose, and the big bears.

You mentioned .45-70 vs .444, and that's a debate I don't understand. Both can shoot light bullets fast or chunk out heavy ones, and there isn't anything on this continent that can stand up to either.

Match the bullet to the job and heck with the headstamp.

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I say grab the .444! In reality, for deer in thick cover the .44 covers your bases just fine, but the Triple Four is cool. The three that I have are a hoot to shoot and one of them is usually in my hands for at least half of rifle season.

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I like the 444. As far as compared to what you have I can't say you would be any happier except for a step up in power and a reason to buy another gun!


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I think some of the Hornady ammo says 1 in 20" twist on the box. The three outfitters I have are 1 in 20".

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I've been lookin at the Marlin 444P which is the Outfitter, right?

It has the 1-20" Ballard and the short barrel. The on,y thing I wish was different is I like the pistol grip vs. the straight grip, but I could live with it (or find one to swap out, I guess).

It sure ain't a need but thought it might be cool to have a thumper throwing heavy cast that didn't weigh as much or use as much powder as my old .375!



It ain't what you don't know that makes you an idiot...it's what you know for certain, that just ain't so...

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Mojo,

If that is the route you wanna take, I suggest buying a new 444 XLR and cutting the barrel to 19" with target crown. You'll be happy as hell.

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Originally Posted by MojoHand
I've been lookin at the Marlin 444P which is the Outfitter, right?

It has the 1-20" Ballard and the short barrel. The on,y thing I wish was different is I like the pistol grip vs. the straight grip, but I could live with it (or find one to swap out, I guess).

It sure ain't a need but thought it might be cool to have a thumper throwing heavy cast that didn't weigh as much or use as much powder as my old .375!



If that were mine, the first things I'd grab would be a can of H4198 and a box of Beartooth Bullets 300 grain WFN.

And I wouldn't be afraid to look at anything on this continent through the sights. You can get enough velocity to have a relatively flat trajectory, and the WFN can dig in and break some running gear.

And with the 1/20 twist, even heavier is quite a possibility.

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444SS is the way to roll.....

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As long as it has 1 in 20" rifling.

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Either twist rate works just fine. Lotta myths out there about the 1-38" Marlins. ALL started by the unknowing.....

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300 grain and above can be marginally stable with 1/38 twist, no problem with 1/20, and there is no need to even try something like the 405 grain Beartooth, which is quite stable with the 1/20 twist.

Velocity begins to play a very important part of stability, which will limit how wide a range of velocities you can load the rifle to. Things must be pretty much balls to the walls with the heavier projectiles (300 to 355 grains).

Even if my original intention is to load a .444 at 2200 to 2300 fps with a 240 grain bullet, I prefer the option of having the ability to play with the heavier bullets.

If you're a fan of 1/38, that's fine, but you're leaving potential performance on the table.


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The bullet you state may not work, but just about everything else up to 355gr that I have tried work fine. I'd not say that is a very "limited selection".

I load mostly 270gr Gold Dots. And 300gr Speer Uni-Cor. They are bonded and kill deer/blackies with authority.

335gr shoot very well out of my gun also. I loaded 355gr for my bud's grizzly bear hunt. They hovered right around 1.1" groups.

And for the record, there is no such thing as "marginally stable" when it come to a bullet. It either is or it isn't.

If 355gr isn't enough bullet, then get a 1-20". But I like the quality of the older Marlins better......


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Quote
But I like the quality of the older Marlins better


That, I cannot argue. I've seen too much not-so-good out of the Remington stuff that it will be awhile before they regain my confidence, but I understand that quality is improving.

In getting your heavier bullet to stabilize, you've probably had to resort to near-top speeds, which is something a tighter twist would not demand, you could slow the bullet down if you wanted.

My own .444 was an SS model, and I found the range of bullets I could fire to be like yours, I just had to zing 'em on out there fast, or groups would start to open up, finally keyholing. That area could be construed as "Marginal". Not that it kept me from using the rifle, it's just I felt some versatility was lost.

I finally settled on the 265 Hornady.

The 355 grain Beartooth bullet is similar in SD to the .458 Piledriver Jr, and would be an excellent choice for big animals/bone-breaking. I use the PD jr quite a bit.

But you pretty much stated your case with the vintage of rifle you like, and it simply was not available with the tighter twist.


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Top speeds are never a bad thing in my book. And without high velocity, indeed faster twist is sometimes needed. Actually, RPM is the deciding factor of stabilization. Twist is merely one part of the equation. It is used because it is easier for Joe Hunter to understand and to paste on the side of a box of bullets. But recommended twist rates are not written in stone. They are merely generalizations of what will work MOST of the time. Of course the handloader can often stabilize a bullet recommended for a faster twist simply by adding a bit more powder/velocity to the equation. The key is to choose a powder that achieves max velocities on the lower end of the pressure spectrum.

If you haven't tried the 270gr Speer in your 444 you are missing out. It is a far tougher bullet than the 265gr Hornady. They work excellently at 444 velocities. Penetrates deeper and retains more weight than the Hornady. I have compared the 2 side by side many times. No contest. Great for deer/blackies. Extremely reasonably priced as well, especially for a bonded core bullet. The one I recovered on the off side hide of a 300lb. black bear still retains 92% of it's weight. The 300gr Uni-Cor is just more of a good thing. Expands a tad less, drives a tad deeper.

I think they call them Deep Curls now.....


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I never got a chance to try the 270s, I sold the .444 to a fellow who was extremely interested in it, and I kinda regret it, now.

If I keep missing it enough, it will be replaced, and I will keep that bullet in mind. I know the 265 was/is a damn good bullet for the .444, so for the 270 Speer to exceed it, well, it only works out better for the shooter.

The Unicor is a bullet I have experience with in the .45-70, and it has served well in that cartridge. The same bullet design/weight would offer better SD in the .444.

I am well aware of the velocity/twist thing, and as long as you like higher velocity, then a slightly slow twist won't be an issue. And, I also like to use powders that exploit the space of a case without undue pressure.

It sounds like you have been around loading for big bores at least a day or two....(grin)

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Yes, I have my share of leverguns. Marlin 444s, 336s, Winny 94s, 55, 64, 71, 88, 86, to name a few. A couple of Savage 99s as well. I handload everything.

Packing up some rifles and heading out now.........

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No, either twist rate doesn't work fine. It depends on all those facts and figures you stated which this time I somewhat agree with. Both the 444 and 44 mag can behave radically different depending on twist rate, velocity, and bullet weight.

I recommended 1 in 20" because thats an option, and why not.

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