Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Cartridge Length Troubles

I am new to reloading this year and have done alot of research but am having troubles with my length to ogive. Each round I load have keep getting a variance in my length. I get about a .005 spread in each round and have to constantly adjust my die. I am using a rock chucker press and forester die with the micro adjustment. Am I missing something or is this normal? Thanks.

The only thing that comes to my mind is a variance in your seating stroke. And too 0005 ain't a whole lot of variance. The bullets themselves could be the culprit

+1

Sometimes I get that with vld-type bullets that have a long ogive that's a hollow-point with no lead under the jacket.

If you're using those bullets and a standard seater plug, the seater plug can compress the unsupported copper a little differently each time. I solved the problem by using a vld chamfer tool on the seater plug, it gives a longer bearing surface to contact the bullet and less variance.

The other thing that can cause that is too much neck tension (stiff seating) and/or no lube on the inside of the neck. If you can get a smoother seating stroke by either less neck tension (not an option with a standard sizing die, you'd need a bigger neck bushing) or lubing the inside of the neck that helps sometimes too.

What bullets?

What caliper and tool are you using to measure to the ogive?

Remember, the more accurate our tools, the more variance we can see.........

.005 ain't bad at all.

Casey

I am using nosler accubonds and do have a neck sizer die once I shoot the brass for the first time. For measuring tools I have the hornady comperator and a rcbs digital caliper.

You might want to remove your seater stem and check how well it fits your bullets. Sometimes the bullets can stick in the seater plug slightly and pull out a little when you lower the ram. Polish the seater by taping the stem and gently chucking it in a drill then use some fine sandpaper (220 or finer) on a dowel. Run the drill and hold the sandpaper in the seater and polish it up.
Should help.

Shoot the [bleep].

There is that. How do they shoot?

I did the OCW test the other day and was a little disappointed. I'm not sure what the problem was but was not getting any real good groups but all those rounds were the same length because I kept adjusting the die. I know the gun will shoot I have shot sub moa with some factory rounds when I first got it.

Well, that might be your answer, a two-part answer. If making the rounds the same length doesn't get you what you want,why bother?

Second part is, try switching bullets. Nothing magical about the accubond, especially if you can't get it to shoot. If you're trying to duplicate accurate factory loads, run 'em through a chronograph and try to match their velocity and OAL.

Yeah I bought some bergers to possibly try and was looking at making some 165 gr Barnes. But I started with the noslers and with hunting season creeping closer I was hoping to get the noslers to work and not have to start over.

What size groups are you getting? If you're shooting a factory hunting rifle, you may be over-thinking this.

It is a winchester EWR that I had a shilen barrel put on. When I did the ocw test the best I got was around 2 inches at 100 and when I first got it back I was sub moa with factory barnes ammo.

Are your cases all the same length.

There's a reason one sees Kiss and find pressure.

OCW, carry on

Adjusting the die on every round is not...NOT how you seat bullets. You may get variance. Trying to account for it, you will never be able to re-create good ammo if you happen to find something that shoots well. Pick a seating depth off the lands, using your tools first to find out where they are: on a dummy round you soft-seat and work through your action. Altering seating depth is a way to 'tune' groups, but chasing a specific measurement is not going to work--your equipment is not designed for it.

Generally I think a variation in seating depth is because the tip of the bullet is hitting the bottom of the seater before the seater hits the ogive.

I used some Sierra Blitzkings that were giving varying measurements after seating. Changed out my seater to a different size and problem went away.

That being said, a variation of .005" should not be making that big of an impact in groups.

From my readings what I started with is the bullet just into the lands and was starting there. If I dont get the same measurements on ogive of round to round wouldn't I possibly end up with some touching the land and some just off?

next time you are loading, seat the bullet, then instead of pulling out the cartridge, turn it 1/2 turn and run the press again.

no clue why it works, but so far seems to work for me to get a more consistent seating depth


also what are you loading for? someone might have a good recipe for you to try

If you are new to reloading, you have bigger things to worry about.

Let us know how your rifle groups (that's what really matters), and if you encounter issues we will be here to help.

With my intial loads of 7 different powder charges best I got was 2 inches. It is a 300 wsm. Thanks

2". I assume that's at 100 yards.

Lets start at the beginning. Is your barrel free floated?

Yes and yes it's a winchester that came with the bell and carlson stock and I had a smith put a shilen barrel on it.

If factory POS Barnes shoot sub MOA and your handloads aren't better, it has nothing to do with seating depth.

It's your load

So would it be better to change powder bullet or both?

What powder? On a hunting load, I would not be seating the bullet into the lands. Whatever you try, do it one step at a time.

This is some funny stuff

And what's so funny

What cartridge and load particulars?

With your comparator, measure a batch of nekkid bullets and see what the ogive variance is if any. Are the bullets from the same lot?

Hiw are you setting up your seating die?

Mick, what are the details of you load?
Case
primer
powder
bullet?

What else do you have on the shelf?

I am setting up my die as per the forester instructions. I did measure some bullets and only a coupe were .001 off.
For the load I am using win brass, win mag primers, Imr 4350, and 180gr accubonds. I also have 4831sc and bergers 190 gr.

Couple things.

Last two batches of Winchester short mag brass I bought significantly varied in length. I'd trim to just short of book to insure consistency.

Next, I'd save the 4350 for the lighter stuff and use the H4831 with the 180's.

I did last night load 3 round groups with the 4831 of 6 different powder charges. I plan on shooting those and a couple more groups of the 4350. I did measure a bunch of the brass and I'll have to look at the variances when I get home. I am hoping maybe once I get a lot of fire formed brass and only neck resize they will be more consistent.

trimming to length before fire forming does little good. Assuming that it's all under max. After you've fire formed the brass, trim them all to the shortest length.

Agreed. That's what I typically do as well. However the length inconsistent on my last last batch of Win brass was so bad it couldn't wait. Some of it was so long it wouldn't even chamber, so you can imagine how the varying chamber crimps would mess with neck tension.

My cases had a variance of .004. I plan on shooting today Have accubonds on top of both the powders so will see what happens. If the accubonds don't group what would you recommend? Should I look at going to 165 gr?

Well I just went shooting and I have some pictures of my groups but I can't get them to load up here, it says they are too large and I cropped them down as small as I can. Best i got was 1.5 inch groups. I probably had a under one inch group with the 4831 but pulled my third shot. So I plan on making more of that charge when I get back from work in couple weeks.

If you are shooting 3 shot "groups', then I would load up three or more of each one and shoot them individually. Finn Aagard would put a backer sheet up and then pin his targets to it one at a time. When he was done, he could look at his backer sheet and determine what his actual group size was. Anyone can have a single excellent or terrible 3 shot group depending on your bench technique.

The .005" is from a slight mismatch between bullet and seater stem. You are unlikely to get it less than .002", and what you have shouldn't matter.