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My father lives in Western Montana, and wants a special gun for wolf protection when he is out hiking. The protection is not for him, but for his bird dog. Wolves have killed a number of dogs in recent years, so the threat is credible.
The performance parameters:
able to dispatch a wolf up to 100 yards
multiple repeat shot capability
very light--4-4.5# would be ideal
compact
more accuracy than a handgun permits.
The only thing I can think of that comes close to meeting these parameters would be built off the AR15 receiver. But this is not my specialty, so I thought I would get some advice. This gun is for carrying, not for high volume shooting, so a polymer lower is certainly a possibility. He has suppressed weapons, so getting a tax stamp is not out of the question. He does not have a .22 can.
What would you build? (The more details you can provide, the better.) This is one of the last Carbon 15s built in Lake Havasu after Bushmaster took over Professional Ordnance. It is under 5lbs with the sight. ![[Linked Image]](http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/GreybullPrecision/Ar-15/DSCN0124_zpsfa9409b1.jpg) I have around 1000rnds through it with zero problems. The barrel is very nice, it is plenty accurate, and it is very reliable. If you can find one of the Bushmaster marked guns that were made in Lake Havasu I would give it a shot. The current Bushmasters are horrible and the poly used is very weak. My gun is gassed pretty heavy and if you find a used one I would put a new bolt in it and shoot it just enough to be familiar.
John Burns
I have all the sources.
They can't stop the signal.
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Joined: Aug 2004
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Campfire Outfitter
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OP
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Terry--
You have violated the fundamental rule of the campfire for answering the original question as posed and you may have to be docked several thousands posts in your count as punishment.
Hint...........
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Given your dad's age and other parameters, Travis' suggestion about the 10/22 seems like the most promising choice, so far, IMO.
Two spare mags in the pocket will give him 30 rounds all up. His main job is to keep his dog and himself alive and whole.
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Terry--
You have violated the fundamental rule of the campfire for answering the original question as posed and you may have to be docked several thousands posts in your count as punishment.
Hint........... 
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,578
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
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Given your dad's age and other parameters, Travis' suggestion about the 10/22 seems like the most promising choice, so far, IMO.
Two spare mags in the pocket will give him 30 rounds all up. His main job is to keep his dog and himself alive and whole.
I would not be too dismissive of his capabilities. MT Dept of Fish, Wildlife and Parks says there are 4 collared grizzly bears hanging out in close proximity to his cabin near the Bob Marshall wilderness, and maybe another 40 uncollared in the general area. When he is up there, he carries a Remington pump 35 Whelen. I do not think we need to demote him to .22lr just yet.
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If there was a good dependable AR that weighed in under 5 lbs, I'd have one.
But there are certain things I won't settle for and the carbon/plastic guns are not for me. As to John Burns' carbon 15, I've seen too many of those have problems when a friend used to sell them way before BM bought them out. John is lucky he found a good one.
But if sub 5 lbs is the goal, I'd look at a Contender carbine in 223 and start drilling holes and scrapping anything non essential.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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First wolves now bears, interesting.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,858
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,858 |
Given your dad's age and other parameters, Travis' suggestion about the 10/22 seems like the most promising choice, so far, IMO.
Two spare mags in the pocket will give him 30 rounds all up. His main job is to keep his dog and himself alive and whole.
I would not be too dismissive of his capabilities. MT Dept of Fish, Wildlife and Parks says there are 4 collared grizzly bears hanging out in close proximity to his cabin near the Bob Marshall wilderness, and maybe another 40 uncollared in the general area. When he is up there, he carries a Remington pump 35 Whelen. I do not think we need to demote him to .22lr just yet. Is this him? ![[Linked Image]](http://aidyreviews.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/02_72dpi4.jpg)
Me
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No, he looks more like this... ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/utah708/NCM_0054_zpsae0be48e.jpg) You guys out of places like Georgia need to realize people in the northern Rockies simply need a different situational awareness than all y'all. Nobody is waiting to roll us when we come out of the Piggy Wiggly. But we have jumped four bears near the cabin in the past couple of years. None felt like pushing the issue, so no shot were fired. My father, to use his words, has been "obsessing" about "how light can you go?" I thought there might be some credible answers to that question, not the threadworn 'Montucky or die, hint hint' self-aggrandizing character assassination bullshcit that the campfire has devolved into.
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Campfire Ranger
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You bring it on yourself by escalating from wolves to bears, reads like a "but what if there were" bullshite thread. If you got a question don't be an ass and dribble out your requirements, spell it out boy, folks will accommodate.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I didn't assassinate anyone's character.
I seriously think the .223 montana fits the bill the best, even if it fails at the rather ridiculous weight requirement.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Campfire Outfitter
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The five specific design criteria in my original post still stand.
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Campfire Tracker
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Well a different solution might be in how it is carried. When I went from carrying a rifle in my hands to throwing it in a kifaru gunslinger the weight was not near as important. As my dad has gotten older he also looked at ways of lightening his load without ditching his beloved boat anchor, a Ruger 77. The solution was a gunslinger and treking poles. The combination has put him back on the mountain after sitting out a couple of years due to knee problems.
My go to gun when I want something light and handy is my .45 colt lever gun. It wear a huge ghost sight, the kids and wife can all shoot it well and a 280gr LBT goes pretty deep even when only pushed to 1300fps.
Hunt hard, kill clean, waste nothing and offer no apologies.
"In rifle work, group size is of some interest...but it is well to remember that a rifleman does not shoot groups, he shoots shots." Jeff Cooper
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I'm confused...Is he a feeble old fella that's just out ambling through the woods with his dog or an elk slaying, Whelen toting man's man?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,281 |
Montucky 223.
Hint.
I ain't guessing.
That'd be another hint................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
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Pass the Montucky.
Hint...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Campfire Outfitter
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The performance parameters:
able to dispatch a wolf up to 100 yards
multiple repeat shot capability
very light--4-4.5# would be ideal
compact
more accuracy than a handgun permits. If a 10/22 is not the answer and a Kimber .223 is not the answer, I'm not sure what is. A quality, reliable AR isn't likely to come in under 5#. And if bears are suddenly a possibility I wouldn't be looking at a .223 anyway.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
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So, a 35 Whelen won't kill wolves?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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Joined: Nov 2011
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,908 |
This afternoon was a Father/Daughter day. We hit a half dozen gun stores and passed a couple dozen rifles through her hands, including the Savage Lady Hunter and some high priced, ultra light AR. Her hands down favorite was a Kimber Classic in .308.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
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