Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Shot group diagnosis?

Not long range yet, trying to help a buddy out. He sent me this picture of a 10 shot group by a new shooter he's mentoring. First six shots touching last four are the fliers. Rifle is a .243 Win bench/LR varmint rifle that weighs nearly 13 lbs shooting 115 grain BN coated DTAC, and shots are at 100 yards. I'm thinking new shooter lost concentration after the first six, he thinks it's copper fouling. He asked help with diagnosis but is in MO and I'm in CO.



Rifle is a Stevens 200 with McGowen 1:7 twist heavy varmint barrel bedded to HS Precision stock, scope is a 6.5-20X44 Vortex Viper. I know he's using RL22 just don't know the charge. I sold my buddy this rifle and I was shooting .4 MOA at 300 yards for five and had no problems ever ringing MOA steel targets or prairie dogs at more than twice the distance. However, I was shooting 115 grain Berger VLD .130 off lands.

My diagnosis is to load up more and go shoot.



Travis

It's easy to test.

Send the rifle to the range with a different shooter.

If groups remain large, it's not the shooter.

Clean repeat test.

If groups shrink, it just needed cleaning.

This is one of those questions that can only be answered on the range.

Proficiency can't be borrowed nor purchased.

McGowen,HS and Vortex...are far closer to my last choices,than my first,due their relative sanctity...................

Barrel heat

Both the Indian and the arrow................

"New shooter"...NUFF said...

My thoughts exactly.

I'll buy Indian but I don't buy the arrow. I get it's not your favorite 105 grain Hornady, but from what I shot of the DTAC in that rifle they were consistent.

what good is a ten shot group? Trying to get the barrel too hot to touch?

Dude why in the world 10 shot groups. I would never put that much heat in my barrel like that. Is the guy trying to fight a war or something. What in the world is the purpose. I am not surprised at all by the group. Tell him to stop it ain't good on the barrel

SMK's are more favorable on paper,than they are Critters. The bullet ain't the weakest link in the chain.

Glass,mounts,barrel and stock are...though in no particular order...............

Is not the answer obvious by looking at the picture?

Certainly not................

So you're actually talking bow not arrow, I figured. So I'll ask my questions in your order.

Glass, I didn't particularly care for but I didn't hate either. Had a wide plex reticle which was the biggest downfall to me. I would have preferred MOA/MOA or MIL/MIL reticle and adjustments but that's why it went down the road. It did track well and always returned to zero at the yardages I played at. So what's your biggest problem with the Vortex? I'll be trying your super chicken next rifle but I'm more interested in the 3-9 and 3-15 scopes.

Mounts were EGW rail and Warne rings, I know you like Warne so what's wrong with EGW?

McGowen barrel, they had it in stock just had to wait two weeks for them to contour. They throated it for the DTAC bullets just like I asked at 2.80 COAL and it fed great from the magazine even with Berger 115 grain bullets. What's your beef with McGowen and how many have you tried?

Stock was HS Precision PST114 that I picked up used, other than being heavy it was well made and ergos were good from bench and bi-pod for me. So what's the weak link in the stock design that you see?

Keep in mind I never was trying to keep this rifle a light weight, I just used it to bang steel mostly out to 600 yards. I did take it to a prairie dog town for one trip where I shot a coyote and half a dozen pasture poodles with it. Coyote was just north of 650 yards.

Why not 10 shots? I don't personally shoot 10 shot groups, but don't see a problem if someone wants to. Besides those 10 shots could have taken an hour or more to shoot, my buddy didn't say.

Barrel was free floated with plenty of room, no chance of it making contact with the stock. The action is bedded to stock with no bedding forward of the recoil lug. Oversized squared recoil lug and barrel nut were used as well.

I seriously doubt 10 shots even if in rapid succession are going to do much damage to the barrel.

To have even a slight chance(which is an illusion),you'll want to start where I started,which is as follows:

"Proficiency can't be borrowed nor purchased.

McGowen,HS and Vortex...are far closer to my last choices,than my first,due their relative sanctity..................."

I mentioned Indian and arrows.

Hint..............

So you won't tell me your reasons for disliking barrel, stock, or optics? I don't question your abilities to launch projectiles. Other than not being blessed off by Stick, I'm going to have to go with you've never used any of the stock, optic, and barrel mentioned. So since you've never used them, they don't meet your seal of approval.

Please regale us with how exactly 10 shots "ain't good on the barrel"? Also I'd be curious how you came up with that "knowledge"?


Thank you.

Couple of things.

1. You don't have to get your barrel hot to shoot a ten shot group.

2. Three shots is a very poor predictor of where the next bullet is going to go.

You'll have to see it for yourself to believe it so take your favored rig and load and shoot a three shot group. Let the barrel cool and shoot another at the same POA so you're stacking groups. Repeat until you have ten shots at the same POA. Report back and let us know if the ten shot group is as small as the 1st three.

I have a prediction. It won't be. Three shots can tell you if you have a poor load but it will not tell you if you have a good one.

John