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story materializing via different media outlets.

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Maybe the damn media will stay out of these chitholes.


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They are just asking for an ass whooping.

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Originally Posted by Slidellkid
They are just asking for an ass whooping.


From who?

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I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....

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Well, THAT might (literally, 'might') delay the AIC's next tee time.. And I bet he's right PIZZED...



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Quote
(CNN) -- The ISIS terror group has published a video titled "A second message to America," showing the beheading of American journalist Steven Sotloff.

The video also threatens the life of British captive, David Haines.

Sotloff speaks to the camera before he is killed, saying he is "paying the price" for U.S. intervention.



Originally Posted by MSNBC
The militant group the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) has reportedly beheaded American journalist Steven Sotloff, according to the SITE Intelligence Group.

�Our thoughts and prayers, first and foremost, are with Mr. Sotloff and Mr. Sotloff�s family and those who worked with him,� White House press secretary Josh Earnest said Tuesday, adding that he couldn�t confirm the authenticity of a video that purportedly shows the execution.



I see that the Whitewash house had knowlegde aforethought enough to equip the Press Secretary with the apology tour message.

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Originally Posted by dsink
I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....


What do you want him to do? Declare war on the world? Seriously, what can any president do about stuff like this. If Americans are going to go into these chitholes than they get what they deserve. Why should we risk American lives because other Americans chose to go in harms way because they are journalists.


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Soon alla the people 'in the know' will be yelling false flag, and blaming it on Israel.








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Yep


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There's about to be another beheading as Obama will call a press conference and then beheading to the golf course as soon as it's over

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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by dsink
I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....


What do you want him to do? Declare war on the world? Seriously, what can any president do about stuff like this. If Americans are going to go into these chitholes than they get what they deserve. Why should we risk American lives because other Americans chose to go in harms way because they are journalists.




The greater risk is what happens when we do nothing and there is no price to pay for murdering Americans.


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SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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If you do nothing then these chitheads attribute it to the US being feared or afraid of them . No response is the worst thing this country can do. I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by dsink
I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....


What do you want him to do? Declare war on the world? Seriously, what can any president do about stuff like this. If Americans are going to go into these chitholes than they get what they deserve. Why should we risk American lives because other Americans chose to go in harms way because they are journalists.




The greater risk is what happens when we do nothing and there is no price to pay for murdering Americans.


So we should put other Americans at risk to punish murders for killing American journalists who should not be in these countries in the first place?

In other words, double down on a bad bet. Not a good move.


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I do not understand these prisoners. If you know they are going to advance their BS by loping your head off in front of a camera,why not resist?
If your legs are free,why not ruin the photo op by attempting to escape? Of course you will be shot and die but you are controlling the circumstances.
You know you're about to die so why follow the script of denouncing your nation?
No resistance just fills these azzwipes with confidence that Americans are gutless and easy targets. At least go out like a man and not a goat being led to market.

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Originally Posted by bea175
If you do nothing then these chitheads attribute it to the US being feared or afraid of them . No response is the worst thing this country can do. I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


Who do declare war on, the Muslim religion? On the Middle East? Are we ready for a nuclear WWIII?


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Originally Posted by bea175
I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


Yep...but if you're gonna go to war, it needs to be done right, once & for all...one common denominator in all these terrorist organizations...ISLAM yes...kill every friggin one of them. (& their goats)

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Originally Posted by chapped_lips
I do not understand these prisoners. If you know they are going to advance their BS by loping your head off in front of a camera,why not resist?


The prelude has been played out before. Any video shot with open resistance isn't shown, it's deleted, the subject tortured until he has just given up and is accepting death, then they redo the video again.

Either they get their money shot, or the video is halted, the subject tortured, and the cycle repeats.

This guy has been held for over a year.


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Originally Posted by chapped_lips
I do not understand these prisoners. If you know they are going to advance their BS by loping your head off in front of a camera,why not resist?
If your legs are free,why not ruin the photo op by attempting to escape? Of course you will be shot and die but you are controlling the circumstances.
You know you're about to die so why follow the script of denouncing your nation?
No resistance just fills these azzwipes with confidence that Americans are gutless and easy targets. At least go out like a man and not a goat being led to market.


I'm not so sure that these so-called Americans are not Muslims willing to die for the cause. Sort of a suicide.


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all three, and be done with it , one way or the other


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Originally Posted by bea175
all three, and be done with it , one way or the other


Well, that's one way to do it. Hopefully, the next humanoid species will be smarter this humanoid species.


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Think how Reagan would have responded...

And those Mexicans, firing a .50 cal. across the Rio Grande to keep U.S. LEO/BP heads down while smugglers ferried drugs and people across the river. Reagan would probably have sent a couple of Apache's over there to clean out that mess and THEN, discussed it with the Mexican Govt.

I think he would have handled ISIS a bit differently, probably zapping them before they grew to 50K strong. Or, would have cluster bombed their columns crossing the desert, like Bush 41 did with Saddam's forces returning from Kuwait, lined up all pretty down the only highway out of town...

It ain't that hard...

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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by dsink
I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....


What do you want him to do? Declare war on the world? Seriously, what can any president do about stuff like this. If Americans are going to go into these chitholes than they get what they deserve. Why should we risk American lives because other Americans chose to go in harms way because they are journalists.


Pretty much how I feel.


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Agree......especially after actually listening to intel reports being delivered first hand for a year to you instead of getting a memo from some staffer.
What a turkey shoot it would have been when ISIS roared into Iraq in their Hi Lux pickups.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Think how Reagan would have responded...

And those Mexicans, firing a .50 cal. across the Rio Grande to keep U.S. LEO/BP heads down while smugglers ferried drugs and people across the river. Reagan would probably have sent a couple of Apache's over there to clean out that mess and THEN, discussed it with the Mexican Govt.

I think he would have handled ISIS a bit differently, probably zapping them before they grew to 50K strong. Or, would have cluster bombed their columns crossing the desert, like Bush 41 did with Saddam's forces returning from Kuwait, lined up all pretty down the only highway out of town...

It ain't that hard...

DF


That's how I would do the Mexican problem. I might go even further and ask Congress for a declaration of war on Mexico. It's time to send Mexico a very serious memo.


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Originally Posted by Mac84
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by dsink
I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....


What do you want him to do? Declare war on the world? Seriously, what can any president do about stuff like this. If Americans are going to go into these chitholes than they get what they deserve. Why should we risk American lives because other Americans chose to go in harms way because they are journalists.


Pretty much how I feel.


So where do you want to fight these guys? Cause we're gonna fight them some day. Where? New York? Chicago? St. Louis? Tulsa?


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Originally Posted by OSU_Sig
Originally Posted by Mac84
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by dsink
I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....


What do you want him to do? Declare war on the world? Seriously, what can any president do about stuff like this. If Americans are going to go into these chitholes than they get what they deserve. Why should we risk American lives because other Americans chose to go in harms way because they are journalists.


Pretty much how I feel.


So where do you want to fight these guys? Cause we're gonna fight them some day. Where? New York? Chicago? St. Louis? Tulsa?


These guys are already here and we will fight them here it's just a matter of time.


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Originally Posted by Redneck
Well, THAT might (literally, 'might') delay the AIC's next tee time.. And I bet he's right PIZZED...



All is well, he's keeping an "eye" on it. wink


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Maybe the damn media will stay out of these chitholes.


Don't worry it's probably fake........


Paul

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Zero is seriously drawing a red line.

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i for one could do without the up close and personal news and they could keep their heads.


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by bea175
If you do nothing then these chitheads attribute it to the US being feared or afraid of them . No response is the worst thing this country can do. I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


Who do declare war on, the Muslim religion? On the Middle East? Are we ready for a nuclear WWIII?



You are the only one talking about declaring war on the world.

Some of us are talking about stopping the bad guys before it becomes WWIII.

That there is a heavy price to pay for harming Americans.

As history has shown beyond any doubt, that is the only way to avoid WWIII.

History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap." Reagan


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We need to stop the presses as these vermin thrive on media attention and just quietly kill them all with a vengeance.


You better be afraid of a ghost!!

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El Paso? Las Cruces? Tucson? Phx? Albq?

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I'm hoping Micheal Moore will go over there and do a movie on ISIS.


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Let me know when this country has some leadership.

Then we can talk war.



Travis


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Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
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Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by bea175
I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


Yep...but if you're gonna go to war, it needs to be done right, once & for all...one common denominator in all these terrorist organizations...ISLAM yes...kill every friggin one of them. (& their goats)


Keep the stupid azz politics out of it and let our soldiers do what their trained to do, kick the livin' schit out of anyone who wants to kill Americans.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm hoping Micheal Moore will go over there and do a movie on ISIS.


Quadruple chin gonna make it tough for that one to be a one-whacker.

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You'd pack the theaters with it though. He never goes after anyone/thing that can fight back.


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Originally Posted by 12344mag

Keep the stupid azz politics out of it and let our soldiers do what their trained to do, kick the livin' schit out of anyone who wants to kill Americans.


Not gonna happen with the white-boy in office.

Have fun ISIS. Or ISIL. Or WTF they call you.


Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
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Originally Posted by RWE
-- The ISIS terror group has published a video titled "A second message to America," showing the beheading of American journalist Steven Sotloff.


Those ISIS guys don't realize that we're sending a message to them.




"We've got lots more MSNBC and CNN reporters where those came from."



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In a RWE world, a bunch of guys that no one would ever know of, that have no desire for a book deal, and no reason other than their own would already have these ISIS guys at sand temperature and would be drinking beer while discussing truck tires and dogs.

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(Feb 2014)Thirty years ago this week, President Ronald Reagan made perhaps the most purposeful and consequential foreign-policy decision of his presidency. Though he never said so explicitly, he ended America's military commitment to a strategic mistake that was peripheral to America's interests. Three-and-a-half months after the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut that killed 241 U.S. military personnel -- and after repeatedly pledging not to do so -- Reagan ordered the withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Lebanon. As Gen. Colin Powell later aptly summarized this military misadventure: "Beirut wasn't sensible and it never did serve a purpose. It was goofy from the beginning."

What was particularly remarkable about Reagan's bold decision was its rarity. Presidents often authorize using force or deploying troops to achieve some discrete set of political and military objectives. When they prove incapable of doing so with the initial resources and political support, the mission can be scaled back in its scope, enlarged to achieve additional missions, or, the atypical choice, terminated. The latter option requires having the ability to recognize failure, and political courage to end a U.S. military commitment. In large part, it is a combined lack of strategic awareness and political courage that explains many U.S. military disasters. To understand how Ronald Reagan successfully pulled this off, it is worth reviewing and remembering the strategic mistake that was the U.S. military deployment to Lebanon in the midst of that country's wrenching civil war.

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Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm hoping Micheal Moore will go over there and do a movie on ISIS.


I'm with Steely on this one, even if we have to air drop the fat fu*ker in...


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I don't believe a word of this schit.

I don't believe the Jewsmedia and don't believe the govt.

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Originally Posted by GeoW
Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm hoping Micheal Moore will go over there and do a movie on ISIS.


I'm with Steely on this one, even if we have to air drop the fat fu*ker in...


Soaked in pigs blood and bacon wrapped...

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Originally Posted by deflave
Let me know when this country has some leadership.

Then we can talk war.



Travis



A good move would be to put well armed Kurd boots on the ground with lots of American air power.
There has already been some success with the limited effort so far.

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has been talking tough and warning US how close the ISIS is to striking over here.
OK, let the Good King put his money where his mouth is and some of his troops on the ground.

Strong American Leadership could rally those, besides US, who also have so much to lose.
I ain't holding my breath.


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Originally Posted by heavywalker
Soon alla the people 'in the know' will be yelling false flag, and blaming it on Israel.


Originally Posted by Ghostinthemachine
I don't believe a word of this schit.

I don't believe the Jewsmedia and don't believe the govt.


Nobody saw that coming...








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Originally Posted by GreatWaputi
Originally Posted by GeoW
Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm hoping Micheal Moore will go over there and do a movie on ISIS.


I'm with Steely on this one, even if we have to air drop the fat fu*ker in...


Soaked in pigs blood and bacon wrapped...


I think he is pig enough all on his own.








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Somebody forgot to pay the ransom.


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A good move would be to put well armed Kurd boots on the ground with lots of American air power.
There has already been some success with the limited effort so far.

King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia has been talking tough and warning US how close the ISIS is to striking over here.
OK, let the Good King put his money where his mouth is and some of his troops on the ground.

Strong American Leadership could rally those, besides US, who also have so much to lose.
I ain't holding my breath. [/quote]

He and Egypt have been making bi-lateral strikes against them in Libya. We'll see more. The U.A.E. is also involved.


The degree of my privacy is no business of yours.

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you believe Al Franken?


There are 2 rules to success:

1. Never tell everything that you know.
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just wait until these clowns are on our shores and in the middle of our nation, courtesy of a do nothing WhiteHouse, Racist ran DOJ, and unsecured borders.... waltzing in here from Mexico...

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Our first response should be to blockade our borders to be sure that they can't come here. Then throw all of our assets into finding the ones who are already here.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Our first response should be to blockade our borders to be sure that they can't come here. Then throw all of our assets into finding the ones who are already here.


100% - all this - if they are coming here or if they are here already - then dammit to hell - lets get that [bleep] straightened out - quit trying to fight them by the boatload in the sand in whatever god forsaken country they are living like gypsies in this year.

Lets catch 'em, send them to Texas and make a few execution videos of our own and quit worrying about what they do in the sandlot across the ocean. Blowing them up by the truckload ain't gonna do [bleep] to stop the ones intent on coming over here. Matter of fact, it just makes more of 'em sign up.

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Originally Posted by RWE
In a RWE world, a bunch of guys that no one would ever know of, that have no desire for a book deal...


[bleep] me, that ought to be in the contract when you sign up.

Sooner or later, ISIS is going to figure out that if they post a video of them beheading an American woman, Obama will scream like a little girl.

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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by 12344mag

Keep the stupid azz politics out of it and let our soldiers do what their trained to do, kick the livin' schit out of anyone who wants to kill Americans.


Not gonna happen with the white-boy in office.

Have fun ISIS. Or ISIL. Or WTF they call you.


Travis


I'm afraid you are correct Travis, my fear is if we do get involved the jackazzes we have running the show will inject politics and stupid rules of engagement and do nothin but get our boys killed to accomplish nothing.


Paul

"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.

Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.

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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Our first response should be to blockade our borders to be sure that they can't come here. Then throw all of our assets into finding the ones who are already here.


Go to Detroit.


Paul

"I'd rather see a sermon than hear a sermon".... D.A.D.

Trump Won!, Sandmann Won!, Rittenhouse Won!, Suck it Liberal Fuuktards.

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Be sure and go to your nearest city on 9/11; and don't forget your pot grin


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Philippines, late 1800's, Black Jack Pershing lined up Muzzie extremists, shot them, poured pig blood and guts on the carcasses, let one Muzzy live to tell the story. No problems out of that sector for years.

Politically correct, soft glove handling of that element is just asking for trouble. They only understand power and resolve. They see indecision as weakness and respond accordingly.

We can't seem to learn from history.

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I used that example several years ago in a history class when discussing what rules of engagement were and how they tied to political correctness and the limp wristed handling of the concept of war since Vietnam. Also mentioned the fire bombing of Tokyo and Berlin. Hard to fight a war with your hands behind your back. Either do it all out or leave the whole thing alone.

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O has a plan do as little as possible and let ISIS thrive.

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Sotloff sympathized with the Muslim Brotherhood.He was a fool.Just as all liberals believe they can reason with these baby raping,Satan worshiping,blood thirsty goat f-u-c-k-e-r-s so did this moron and he paid with his miserable life.


The failure of all liberals to recognize the real enemies of our nation will be their eventual downfall.These are the same liberals who paint veterans as the enemies of the this nation and accept these s-a-n-d-n-i-g-g-e-r-s as decent peaceful people.

We can only pray that all others,who do recognize our true enemies,survive.



Communist Goals

26. Present homosexuality and degeneracy as normal.
27. Discredit the Bible.
28. Eliminate prayer in the schools.

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Originally Posted by heavywalker
Soon, TRH, Sansouci, and GhostInTheMachine will be yelling false flag, and blaming it on Israel.





Fixt


The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude


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All I know is that they'll run out of our journalists long before we run out of drones, missiles and bombs.

I still can't see a big downfall to the Sunnis and Shias killing each other like rabid dogs.

What would Ronald Reagan do?


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Originally Posted by gitem_12
Originally Posted by heavywalker
Soon, TRH, Sansouci, and GhostInTheMachine will be yelling false flag, and blaming it on Israel.


Fixt


Doesn't it strike you as the least bit odd that ISIS just emerged out of nowhere a few months ago and that the media is pimping them as 'even worse' than any other groups we've been 'fighting' for 13 years? No, THESE guys are the truly badass group and we're all phuggin gonna die if'n we don't invade Syria. It's preposterous and comical propaganda. Yer a sheep, so you can't see it.

I call bullshit.

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Okay, so the journalist didn't get their heads cut off?

That is great news, perhaps you should call their family and let them know that it is all 'bullshit' and their loved one will be home soon unscathed, I am sure they would love to hear it from you.









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Originally Posted by chapped_lips
I do not understand these prisoners. If you know they are going to advance their BS by loping your head off in front of a camera,why not resist?
If your legs are free,why not ruin the photo op by attempting to escape? Of course you will be shot and die but you are controlling the circumstances.
You know you're about to die so why follow the script of denouncing your nation?
No resistance just fills these azzwipes with confidence that Americans are gutless and easy targets. At least go out like a man and not a goat being led to market.


Often times they will be drugged, slept deprived to exhaustion, malnourished, beaten ect. Think "Nick Berg".

Foley was a disgrace all the way around.

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Originally Posted by heavywalker
Okay, so the journalist didn't get their heads cut off?

That is great news, perhaps you should call their family and let them know that it is all 'bullshit' and their loved one will be home soon unscathed, I am sure they would love to hear it from you.



Have you seen a head being severed on these two 'journalists? I didn't think so.

Even if they are beheading a few people over there, why in the phugg does that mean we need to get involved? Wanna keep yer head? Stay the he'll outta there.

Sheeple are hysterical, non-thinking dumbschits.

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Hell of a way to go thats for sure get your head sawed off with a dull knife [bleep]! The last ragehead sob that ran around cutting americans heads off met his maker when they dropped a 500lber on his ass in Iraq.


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.

Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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Have you seen a head being severed on these two 'journalists? I didn't think so.

I have not seen it in person, I know people that watched the video before it was taken down.

Even if they are beheading a few people over there, why in the phugg does that mean we need to get involved? Wanna keep yer head? Stay the he'll outta there.

Make that your argument then, in which case I would agree. We (US) don't need to do a damn thing except to protect our national security here at home. A few idiot journalist does not rate going to war over. You instantly discredit yourself by running around calling bullshit on everything without basis.

Sheeple are hysterical, non-thinking dumbschits.

Correct, and it goes both ways, on one end you have a guy beating his war drum, on the other you have a guy calling bullshit on everything under the sun. Going to war on every issue is not the solution, and ignoring every issue is not the solution. So when you say sheeple are just referring to those following a different master than you?

And I am still waiting for you to call the families of the beheaded and let them know all is well wink







Last edited by heavywalker; 09/02/14.







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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by bea175
If you do nothing then these chitheads attribute it to the US being feared or afraid of them . No response is the worst thing this country can do. I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


Who do declare war on, the Muslim religion? On the Middle East? Are we ready for a nuclear WWIII?



You are the only one talking about declaring war on the world.

Some of us are talking about stopping the bad guys before it becomes WWIII.

That there is a heavy price to pay for harming Americans.

As history has shown beyond any doubt, that is the only way to avoid WWIII.

History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap." Reagan


First, there is no organized state to fight.

Second, there is no government to declare war on.

Third, There are over 1.6 billion Muslim bad guys so how do we eliminate 1.6 billion Muslim bad guys without declaring war on the world.

Answer these questions and maybe, maybe you might get me on your side.



Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

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I have not seen it in person, I know people that watched the video before it was taken down.


I keep hearing that, but there is absolutely nothing on the entire Internet that suggests it's even remotely true.


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And I am still waiting for you to call the families of the beheaded and let them know all is well


Did you see the press conference of the parents of Foley?

They seemed rather composed and without any real emotion. They know something. grin

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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER



A good move would be to put well armed Kurd boots on the ground with lots of American air power.
There has already been some success with the limited effort so far.



That would be nothing more than a waste of time, energy, and money.



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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the solution is in front of us

we gave the indians small pox

ebola

do the math.


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by bea175
If you do nothing then these chitheads attribute it to the US being feared or afraid of them . No response is the worst thing this country can do. I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


Who do declare war on, the Muslim religion? On the Middle East? Are we ready for a nuclear WWIII?



You are the only one talking about declaring war on the world.

Some of us are talking about stopping the bad guys before it becomes WWIII.

That there is a heavy price to pay for harming Americans.

As history has shown beyond any doubt, that is the only way to avoid WWIII.

History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap." Reagan


First, there is no organized state to fight.

Second, there is no government to declare war on.

Third, There are over 1.6 billion Muslim bad guys so how do we eliminate 1.6 billion Muslim bad guys without declaring war on the world.

Answer these questions and maybe, maybe you might get me on your side.




First, ISIS , now called Islamic State, seems to be very well organised.

Second, it may well be the closest thing to a pure terrorist government in this War on Terrorism. At least first on the list.
Help the Kurds form their own government after their boots on the ground and our air power take out the 15 to 30,000 ISIS bad guys. That is doable.

And give the rest of the radical Muslins in the other Muslim countries something to think about if they know the new American administration is not messing around. Those days would be over.

Third, we are not at war with most Muslins, just the bad guys. About one billion Muslins live in places like Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.
Some few of them are bad guys, but most of the bad guys show up in places where they see US as weakest. As losers.
These are tough bad guys and the only thing they respect is someone who is tougher.

If we could use Muslins boots on the ground to defeat the Muslin bad guys.
The message would be loud and clear.
The Kurds have been wanting to do that for a long time in what they call their country and await the weapons we promised them a long time ago.


Leo of the Land of Dyr

NRA FOR LIFE

I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Originally Posted by KFWA
the solution is in front of us

we gave the indians small pox

ebola

do the math.


I came up with green.

Did I win?



Travis


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
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Problem is that the muzzies a thick in Europe. Won't be hard for them to grab US Citizens traveling abroad.

Won't be hard for them to do it here too. Just wait till they show a beheading with the whitehouse in the background.

This is just the beginning. Pretending it isn't happening won't make it go away. We'll have to deal with it sooner or later.

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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by KFWA
the solution is in front of us

we gave the indians small pox

ebola

do the math.


I came up with green.

Did I win?

Travis


you won the internet



Last edited by KFWA; 09/02/14.

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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER


First, ISIS , now called Islamic State, seems to be very well organised.

Second, it may well be the closest thing to a pure terrorist government in this War on Terrorism. At least first on the list.
Help the Kurds form their own government after their boots on the ground and our air power take out the 15 to 30,000 ISIS bad guys. That is doable.

And give the rest of the radical Muslins in the other Muslim countries something to think about if they know the new American administration is not messing around. Those days would be over.

Third, we are not at war with most Muslins, just the bad guys. About one billion Muslins live in places like Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.
Some few of them are bad guys, but most of the bad guys show up in places where they see US as weakest. As losers.
These are tough bad guys and the only thing they respect is someone who is tougher.

If we could use Muslins boots on the ground to defeat the Muslin bad guys.
The message would be loud and clear.
The Kurds have been wanting to do that for a long time in what they call their country and await the weapons we promised them a long time ago.


Where is this Islamic State located? Where's it's capital?

As far as ending terrorism that will never happen. Eliminating ISIS merely means a whole new organization. Then what? The crusaders tried eliminating Muslims at couldn't do it and I doubt we can do it.

And then there's the blow back. How do we deal with the blow back and there will be blow back. For every action there is a re-action.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by KFWA
the solution is in front of us

we gave the indians small pox

ebola

do the math.


I came up with green.

Did I win?

Travis


you won the internet



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Let God sort'em out. This passed up serious a long ways back down the road. They are in this country now by the droves.Who do you reckon our resident Middle-Easterners will side with? Interning the Japanese might be a good model in this situation. I am so tired of hearing about the "religion of peace". BS I say, this is war. There is no choice when war is declared on you. Your little children and grandchildren have death warrant on them. There is only one solution.


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Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm hoping Micheal Moore will go over there and do a movie on ISIS.

I would pay his way!


the consolidation of the states into one vast republic, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of that ruin which has overwhelmed all those that have preceded. Robert E Lee
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Mo'fuggas need to die. Fugg Obama, he will do nothing. I think back to the shirts I've seen with G. Bush's face asking "Miss me yet?". Yeah, we do.


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Originally Posted by deerstalker
Originally Posted by Steelhead
I'm hoping Micheal Moore will go over there and do a movie on ISIS.

I would pay his way!


I've got money to donate too.


If 2nd amendment rights can be subject to licensing and fees, how was the poll tax unconstitutional?
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I'm in favor of War


You're part of the McCain outfit, aren't ya' ?

GTC


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Originally Posted by 12344mag
Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by bea175
I'm in favor of War if this is what it will take to stop the Muslim take over of the world before it is to late to turn it around.


Yep...but if you're gonna go to war, it needs to be done right, once & for all...one common denominator in all these terrorist organizations...ISLAM yes...kill every friggin one of them. (& their goats)


Keep the stupid azz politics out of it and let our soldiers do what their trained to do, kick the livin' schit out of anyone who wants to kill Americans.


Quote
our soldiers do what their trained to do


Uhhh, they're attending sensitivity in GLTG "issues", and than going down to the Chaplain to line out same sex unions, at the base chapels.

Are you SURE that you're comfortable with that proposal ?

GTC



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#1. Too many morons posting on this site now. Kill every raghead in the world? Are you stupid?

#2. Eventually, we will have to deal with a big problem. We can either do it over there, or over here.

We can't appease then. We can't ignore them. They won't go away.

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Originally Posted by Calvin
#1. Too many morons posting on this site now. Kill every raghead in the world? Are you stupid?

#2. Eventually, we will have to deal with a big problem. We can either do it over there, IN MEXICO, or over here.

We can't appease then. We can't ignore them. They won't go away.


Fixed.

In country, and right outside of our lines (BOTH N. and S,) would seem to be the SMART place to start.

No ?

....GD embarrassing watching McCain jumping up and down about bringin' home more $ for Raytheon,....while that fargin' line's essentially wide open.

Outside of GIM's chronic diahrea of the mouth, I value most ALL of the posts put up here,....

Calvin, you don't expect this discussion to be calm and weel mannered, do you ?

Emotions run high, and folks are speaking their minds.

....gotta' love that.

GTC


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If this thread has taken a turn to answer the question: "how do you deal with ISIS threat?", I would make a suggestion.

Kidnap the imams that are most important in the Sunni religion and use them as leverage to control the sunni followers. By "use them", I mean get primeval on them. If any followers step out of line, if there are any attacks on Americans etc. start by defiling one of the imams and then proceed by humiliating him in public and then moving to abuse and ultimately a humiliating death. Continue on with all three of the holy leaders if the followers don't fall in line.

At the same time, I would land a helicopter at each of the 3 holiest sites in the sunni religion: Masjid al-Haram mosque; Al-Masjid an-Nabawi mosque and the Al-Aqsa Mosque. I would load each of these helicopters with high explosives, or in the case of the Masjid al-Haram mosque, a small tactical nuke. If sunnis rise up and attack any western target or citizen, destroying these mosques would be the next steps in the force continuum that include using the imams as leverage.

Any attempt to defuse these should result in immediate detonation.

IOW, you screw with us, and we will go right to what you claim to be the most holy and important thing in your culture. F with us and we will destroy your holy sites and imams, one at a time, permanently.


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Of course if we go after the Mosques it just enrages them further and then they go after our Capital, Washington monument, White House, Wall Street, New York, LA, Houston, etc...out come the nukes, bio, chemical stuff and most Americans won't have the resolve to deal with it, to keep up the fight, and so will easily give up.

They just ratchet it up a notch and it's hard to see where it will end.

I think we have to do something...but very difficult to know where and whose ass to kick.

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Originally Posted by Calvin
#1. Too many morons posting on this site now. Kill every raghead in the world? Are you stupid?

#2. Eventually, we will have to deal with a big problem. We can either do it over there, or over here.

We can't appease then. We can't ignore them. They won't go away.


We've been dealing with it over there for decades and it hasn't made one damn difference. And you laugh at the people suggesting we kill every raghead in the world - you think selectively fighting these people in a battle of attrition is going to work? They are a hydra - for every one we kill, they become a martyr and two more take their place. Al Qaeda, Al Shabaab, Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis - not to mention all the pockets spread throughout [bleep] in the world.

The saddest part here is Hagel gets up there and talks about how we haven't seen anything like Isis yet, and the western countries virtually say an attack at home is imminent yet our focus is on stopping some ragheads running around in the back of Toyota pickup trucks and surplus humvees on the other side of the world.

We played a big part in destablizing that part of the world and creating an environment for these groups to thrive. Now we're supposed to go in there with massive amounts of weaponry, money and have American soldiers die because we have a stupid foreign policy. If you really want to make Americans safe - focus your efforts on the 50 states. We can't stop 14 year old kids from entering this country, much less a raghead with an RPG.


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KFWA, the middle east has NEVER in all history been "stable". From Ashurbanipal and Sennacherib to today it has been horror after horror. We have been at war with some nitwit over there since the Barbary Pirates. Islam has been the worst single aggravating factor there has ever been. The warof annihilation and survival has already begun, the question is "does the West have what it takes to win?" Stopping the "multi-culturalism" crap would be a start. To win we need to be more merciless and remorseless than they ever dreamed of being.


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Originally Posted by crossfireoops
Are you SURE that you're comfortable with that proposal ?

GTC



LOL, "how they used to be trained".

You have a fine point about Mexico it would be a excellent place to start. But all this doesn't matter anyways, it probably one of those false flag things that our more intelligent "Fire" members keep talking about. crazy


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If one of these journalist were black, look out, zero would be all over this.....

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Frankly, I would have a hard time caring less about 2 lefty "Journalists" who got wasted in that region. I don't G.A.F. if they were from Mars. ISIS has buried HUNDREDS if not thousands of young kids ALIVE,raped and enslaved thousands of women, executed multiple thousands for any reason they wanted. They and their creed are just warming up. We WILL be in a direct battle with them sooner or later. Groups like that attract psychopaths from everywhere. TOTAL psychopaths. Coming to a theater near you...soon.


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Originally Posted by EvilTwin
KFWA, the middle east has NEVER in all history been "stable". From Ashurbanipal and Sennacherib to today it has been horror after horror. We have been at war with some nitwit over there since the Barbary Pirates. Islam has been the worst single aggravating factor there has ever been. The warof annihilation and survival has already begun, the question is "does the West have what it takes to win?" Stopping the "multi-culturalism" crap would be a start. To win we need to be more merciless and remorseless than they ever dreamed of being.


we're not going to do that so what's the solution?

This is guerilla warfare where the farmer waving at you when you pass shoots you in the back. There is no unity or uniform, no central organization, no code or value system we can adhere to in facing these people. They create reasons to declare jihad, twist their bible and religion to suit their purpose -

When facing a superior force, they'll scatter into the wind only to re-emerge with another name, another location, another set of leadership, another cause to motivate their followers down the road.

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You die horribly.


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We missed our chance to put them in their place when W refused to declare radical islam the enemy and attack it mercilessly. He didn't want to inflame the muslims, and certainly didn't want to piss off the Saudis.

When we were attacked on 9/11, we should have responded by leveling a city or two. We didn't, and we have shown nothing but weakness since (ESPECIALLY under B.H.O.).

If we dial it back further, the greatest missed opportunity was under Reagan. Had Reagan announced a new "space initiative" to take us off dependency of middle eastern oil akin to the Kennedy initiatives to put a man on the moon - with us coming right out of the oil embargo of the '70s - we could have done it and the camel humping SOBs would be sitting around in the sand with oil and nothing to do with it.

Instead, we're dependent upon their oil and we lack the political will to fight them as they need to be fought. So, we will eventually have to start fighting them here.

Thank your political leaders of both parties for the schit show that will be.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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It gets me jumping up and down mad to soft peddle this crap just to keep the oil sheiks happy.

Cut the freaking cord, then strangle someone with it, for Pete's sake.

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invading Iraq on a personal vendetta didn't help.

We had the opportunity after 9/11 to address this problem head on with the world's backing and we squandered it because Dubya wanted to one up his daddy.

More importantly we had an united America - Americans were lining up at the recruiting centers to fight this threat against America - and our government wasted it.

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Originally Posted by RWE
It gets me jumping up and down mad to soft peddle this crap just to keep the oil sheiks happy.

Cut the freaking cord, then strangle someone with it, for Pete's sake.


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Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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"personal vendetta" what bullshit. I am in complete agreement we went into Iraq and indeed after 9/11 piecemal and not with the 'Total war' mindset of WWII. In my opinion what Bush should have done and at the time he had the backing of the entire political spectrum (save for a few kooks):

1. Formally declare war on the floor of the combined Houses
2. Put the country on a war footing, raise the possibility of a draft, war bonds, the works.
3. Gone into Iraq with the correct number of troops for an inavsing/occuping force.
4. Punish mercilessly any nation state supporting same.

And yes before anyone starts it, the intelligence was WRONG. Wont' be the first or last time, but to suggest the war as a personal vendetta is well, stupid.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
"personal vendetta" what bullshit. I am in complete agreement we went into Iraq and indeed after 9/11 piecemal and not with the 'Total war' mindset of WWII. In my opinion what Bush should have done and at the time he had the backing of the entire political spectrum (save for a few kooks):

1. Formally declare war on the floor of the combined Houses
2. Put the country on a war footing, raise the possibility of a draft, war bonds, the works.
3. Gone into Iraq with the correct number of troops for an inavsing/occuping force.
4. Punish mercilessly any nation state supporting same.

And yes before anyone starts it, the intelligence was WRONG. Wont' be the first or last time, but to suggest the war as a personal vendetta is well, stupid.


Agreed, save for the location. Iraq wasn't responsible for 9/11. The hijackers were, and were financed by, Saudis.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by Calvin
#1. Too many morons posting on this site now. Kill every raghead in the world? Are you stupid?

#2. Eventually, we will have to deal with a big problem. We can either do it over there, or over here.

We can't appease then. We can't ignore them. They won't go away.


We've been dealing with it over there for decades and it hasn't made one damn difference. And you laugh at the people suggesting we kill every raghead in the world - you think selectively fighting these people in a battle of attrition is going to work? They are a hydra - for every one we kill, they become a martyr and two more take their place. Al Qaeda, Al Shabaab, Hamas, Hezbollah, Isis - not to mention all the pockets spread throughout [bleep] in the world.

The saddest part here is Hagel gets up there and talks about how we haven't seen anything like Isis yet, and the western countries virtually say an attack at home is imminent yet our focus is on stopping some ragheads running around in the back of Toyota pickup trucks and surplus humvees on the other side of the world.

We played a big part in destablizing that part of the world and creating an environment for these groups to thrive. Now we're supposed to go in there with massive amounts of weaponry, money and have American soldiers die because we have a stupid foreign policy. If you really want to make Americans safe - focus your efforts on the 50 states. We can't stop 14 year old kids from entering this country, much less a raghead with an RPG.



Not laughing, just pointing out the obvious that they are complete morons for suggesting the mass genocide of 1.6 billion people. That type of stupidity is even too stupid for the hunters campfire... and the bar is set pretty low on here!

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+1 on what Calvin said.

Them saying kill all Christians = Bad.

You saying kill all Muslims = good???

Not really....It makes you as stupid and dangerous as them.


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"How do you deal with the ISIS threat?"

The first goal should be to take away ISIS's ability to form a stable caliphate with the wealth and power of an oil producing nation.

US strategy, as this point, does not require an all out "win the war" against ISIS and jihadist terrorism. No nation or coalition of nations will ever end the fighting in the ME. If you accept this as fact then you can form strategies to at least minimize and contain the threat and limit US military involvement in the ME. Let the factions fight it out among themselves.

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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER


First, ISIS , now called Islamic State, seems to be very well organised.

Second, it may well be the closest thing to a pure terrorist government in this War on Terrorism. At least first on the list.
Help the Kurds form their own government after their boots on the ground and our air power take out the 15 to 30,000 ISIS bad guys. That is doable.

And give the rest of the radical Muslins in the other Muslim countries something to think about if they know the new American administration is not messing around. Those days would be over.

Third, we are not at war with most Muslins, just the bad guys. About one billion Muslins live in places like Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh.
Some few of them are bad guys, but most of the bad guys show up in places where they see US as weakest. As losers.
These are tough bad guys and the only thing they respect is someone who is tougher.

If we could use Muslins boots on the ground to defeat the Muslin bad guys.
The message would be loud and clear.
The Kurds have been wanting to do that for a long time in what they call their country and await the weapons we promised them a long time ago.


Where is this Islamic State located?

Do you know how to read a map?

Where's it's capital?

Capital is Ar-Raqqah, Syria. Located about 25 miles east of Tabqa Dam the largest dam in Syria.
Where is that? Look at your freaking map.


As far as ending terrorism that will never happen. Eliminating ISIS merely means a whole new organization. Then what? The crusaders tried eliminating Muslims at couldn't do it and I doubt we can do it.

Then what if we do not eliminate ISIS? Their starting goal is control of the whole region and all of its oil. That would be their base to take on the rest of the Infidel World.

And then there's the blow back. How do we deal with the blow back and there will be blow back. For every action there is a re-action.

What would be the blow back if that were to happen? Think back on how dangerous would Saddam Hussein be today if he had been allowed to keep Kuwait. You can't possibly think he would have stopped there.

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Originally Posted by jorgeI
"personal vendetta" what bullshit. I am in complete agreement we went into Iraq and indeed after 9/11 piecemal and not with the 'Total war' mindset of WWII. In my opinion what Bush should have done and at the time he had the backing of the entire political spectrum (save for a few kooks):

1. Formally declare war on the floor of the combined Houses
2. Put the country on a war footing, raise the possibility of a draft, war bonds, the works.
3. Gone into Iraq with the correct number of troops for an inavsing/occuping force.
4. Punish mercilessly any nation state supporting same.

And yes before anyone starts it, the intelligence was WRONG. Wont' be the first or last time, but to suggest the war as a personal vendetta is well, stupid.


when a president says "he tried to kill my father"

then yea, I'd say its a personal vendetta. I don't really care whether you think its bullshit or not - Bush and company ignored the voices telling him he was wrong, he squandered valuable US resources and goodwill on his white whale Iraq. Matter of fact they retaliated on the folks that told the world they were wrong.

Osama wasn't in Iraq. Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq (until we destabilized the country) - so just why in the hell were we going into Iraq after 9/11?

Bush and company created a narrative to justify going into Iraq with 9/11 giving them the ability to do so.

And to add further insult to all of this - a country that had no...zero...terrorism on 9/12/2001 is ground zero for the biggest terrorism threat to us on the planet now.


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Originally Posted by 4ager
So, we will eventually have to start fighting them here.


It will take fighting them here before the majority of Americans accept that they need to be fought.




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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by 4ager
So, we will eventually have to start fighting them here.


It will take fighting them here before the majority of Americans accept that they need to be fought.





Unfortunately, I agree.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by 4ager
So, we will eventually have to start fighting them here.


It will take fighting them here before the majority of Americans accept that they need to be fought.


And when we do wake up??? What then??? International laws regarding religious practices & what's acceptable?

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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by 4ager
So, we will eventually have to start fighting them here.


It will take fighting them here before the majority of Americans accept that they need to be fought.


And when we do wake up??? What then??? International laws regarding religious practices & what's acceptable?


If the PRK is in charge or involved, yes, probably.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Time for a reality check.
S.L.A. Marshall was a goon in many respects but did say something profound and timeless. It describes the formula for winning a war.

National population+national wealth X national will = victory.

In the absence of quality leadership that would produce national unity equal to waging total war, even our military would be wasted, again.

With strong leadership we could:
1. seal the borders
2.assign a national priority to energy independence.
3.support only those that share our values w/ food, energy and money
4.Follow the money and eliminate those that profit from our problems
i.e. Cartel leaders and Saudi sheiks.
5. Let the dune coons eat sand.
6.Turn the assets now directed to 3 letter agencies to cyber warfare
before the azzholes do it to us.

mike's formula to protect my grandkids who will be high information voters that know how to fight.

mike r





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Originally Posted by tjm10025
Originally Posted by 4ager
So, we will eventually have to start fighting them here.


It will take fighting them here before the majority of Americans accept that they need to be fought.





probably why they aren't so keen on doing what it takes to shut down the threat here on our soil.


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The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by 4ager

And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did.


Why do you not support oil?




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Originally Posted by RWE
Originally Posted by 4ager

And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did.


Why do you not support oil?




(I sherped you, and I apologize)


You risk grinner jihad.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by dsink
I guess we get to look forward to "O" coming out and telling us he still has no plan and no clue what to do....


Seriously, what can any president do about stuff like this.



Start beheading some of the ragheads at Guantanamo Bay mad


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Originally Posted by BudLightyear
Of course if we go after the Mosques it just enrages them further and then they go after our Capital, Washington monument, White House, Wall Street, New York, LA, Houston, etc...out come the nukes, bio, chemical stuff and most Americans won't have the resolve to deal with it, to keep up the fight, and so will easily give up.

They just ratchet it up a notch and it's hard to see where it will end.

I think we have to do something...but very difficult to know where and whose ass to kick.

Bud


That's just it, you don't "go for the mosques" per se. You start by grabbing a few leaders. Do not kill them right away. Death is a blessing to them so you must publicly humiliate their leaders whenever the terrorists attack western interests. And gradually ramp up the public discomfort and humiliation to the point where, if needed, then take out that guy and move to the next leader you've grabbed.

You make it clear that the mosques are in the force continuum. If taking out their leadership in a humiliating fashion and not allowing them to have a martyred death isn't enough to get the animals under control, then make it very clear that we will destroy one of the 3 holiest mosques if anything else escalates and move right down the line.

I agree no one in leadership has the stomach to handle any of this. But I disagree that these mosques should be taken off the table because of what retribution might occur. Reality is, they are working on striking all the things you mentioned originally. It is puerile to think that we can't attack what is most sacred to those that are sworn to not only defeat us, but kill us all simply because we are better than that. Malarkey! O-man said it himself, "they bring a knife, you bring a gun."


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I recommend that Hulagu the Mongol and his difference of opinion with the Ishmailis(assassins) be studied. THAT will be our only real recourse.


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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did.


No they didn't, Saudi NATIONALS did.


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I'm tired of the blame Bush game.

Afghanistan - They harbored bin Ladin. If they had turned him over, the Taliban would still be running all of their show unmolested. They made their choice.

Iraq - If Saddam had complied with the UN, he'd still be alive and in power. He bet his life on the notion the US would not invade. He lost.

Everyone in the world figured that once Saddam was gone, the Iraqi people would rejoice, form a true democracy, and the world would be better. People over estimated the Muslims once again. The only stability seen in the Arab world has been through the brutal rule of dictators and/or the military. They are unable to function any other way. They are either at your throat or at your feet. Brutal domination or submission, that is their culture.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did.


No they didn't, Saudi NATIONALS did.


OBL was a Saudi prince. His funding came, primarily, from very wealthy Saudis. His organization was largely run by Saudis. Iraq and Iraqis had little to nothing to do with OBL and AQ.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
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The greater risk is what happens when we do nothing and there is no price to pay for murdering Americans.
Like Benghazi.


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Originally Posted by hatari
I'm tired of the blame Bush game.

Afghanistan - They harbored bin Ladin. If they had turned him over, the Taliban would still be running all of their show unmolested. They made their choice.

Iraq - If Saddam had complied with the UN, he'd still be alive and in power. He bet his life on the notion the US would not invade. He lost.

Everyone in the world figured that once Saddam was gone, the Iraqi people would rejoice, form a true democracy, and the world would be better. People over estimated the Muslims once again. The only stability seen in the Arab world has been through the brutal rule of dictators and/or the military. They are unable to function any other way. They are either at your throat or at your feet. Brutal domination or submission, that is their culture.


I blamed both Bush presidencies, Clinton, Obama, and even Reagan.

W picked a fight with a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. It was a separate fight and a separate issue. He attacked AQ in Afghanistan, but did nothing to root out the financial backers of AQ in the KSA, Yemen, UAE, and Dubai.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by RickyD
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The greater risk is what happens when we do nothing and there is no price to pay for murdering Americans.
Like Benghazi.


Or the USS Cole, or the Kenyan embassy, or others.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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The only stability seen in the Arab world has been through the brutal rule of dictators and/or the military. They are unable to function any other way. They are either at your throat or at your feet. Brutal domination or submission, that is their culture.
Well said, and all anyone needs to understand about islam.


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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
KFWA, the middle east has NEVER in all history been "stable". From Ashurbanipal and Sennacherib to today it has been horror after horror. We have been at war with some nitwit over there since the Barbary Pirates. Islam has been the worst single aggravating factor there has ever been. The warof annihilation and survival has already begun, the question is "does the West have what it takes to win?" Stopping the "multi-culturalism" crap would be a start. To win we need to be more merciless and remorseless than they ever dreamed of being.


we're not going to do that so what's the solution?

This is guerilla warfare where the farmer waving at you when you pass shoots you in the back. There is no unity or uniform, no central organization, no code or value system we can adhere to in facing these people. They create reasons to declare jihad, twist their bible and religion to suit their purpose -

When facing a superior force, they'll scatter into the wind only to re-emerge with another name, another location, another set of leadership, another cause to motivate their followers down the road.


You've hit the nail squarely on the head.

There is no state, there is no government. These groups are amorphous, there is no solid state. Fighting an amorphous state is not possible for a modern state.


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs.

Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rove were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11.


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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs.


Actually, the overwhelming support was because the people and Congress were still reeling from 9/11 and the support was to root out and destroy terrorists.

THAT should have been the sole objective. Iraq had nothing to do with that.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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It should be noted:
"Most Muslims (one billion) live in Asia, predominately in south and southeast Asia. More than 300 million Muslims live in Sub-Saharan Africa as well.

The four largest Muslim populations are in Indonesia, Pakistan, India, and Bangladesh, each home to more than 100 million Muslims.�

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Indonesia is no peaceful paradise. Ditto Pakistan. Bangladesh is too damned poor and wracked with disease and disaster to do much. India - well...


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
KFWA, the middle east has NEVER in all history been "stable". From Ashurbanipal and Sennacherib to today it has been horror after horror. We have been at war with some nitwit over there since the Barbary Pirates. Islam has been the worst single aggravating factor there has ever been. The warof annihilation and survival has already begun, the question is "does the West have what it takes to win?" Stopping the "multi-culturalism" crap would be a start. To win we need to be more merciless and remorseless than they ever dreamed of being.


we're not going to do that so what's the solution?

This is guerilla warfare where the farmer waving at you when you pass shoots you in the back. There is no unity or uniform, no central organization, no code or value system we can adhere to in facing these people. They create reasons to declare jihad, twist their bible and religion to suit their purpose -

When facing a superior force, they'll scatter into the wind only to re-emerge with another name, another location, another set of leadership, another cause to motivate their followers down the road.


You've hit the nail squarely on the head.

There is no state, there is no government. These groups are amorphous, there is no solid state. Fighting an amorphous state is not possible for a modern state.


its quicksand

We crippled Al Qaeda - targeted their leadership - the life expectancy of the 3rd man out in the field in charge was about 2 weeks and another group now, more vicious, better organized, better funded has risen up to take their place.

Once we get stuck in that quagmire, another hotspot in the world will pop up.

We aren't going to win this "war" fighting skirmishes with factions.


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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs.


Actually, the overwhelming support was because the people and Congress were still reeling from 9/11 and the support was to root out and destroy terrorists.

THAT should have been the sole objective. Iraq had nothing to do with that.


true, but he used that to his advantage to sell America on going into Iraq - and he still needed the WMD story to push us over on it.


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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs.

Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rover were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11.



Then why didn't Saddam allow the U.N. inspections?

Just because we didn't find any WMD doesn't mean they didn't/don't exist...he did use them on the Kurds.

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Originally Posted by KFWA
invading Iraq on a personal vendetta didn't help.

We had the opportunity after 9/11 to address this problem head on with the world's backing and we squandered it because Dubya wanted to one up his daddy.

More importantly we had an united America - Americans were lining up at the recruiting centers to fight this threat against America - and our government wasted it.


Right on again! If I had been president bombs would have fallen on Mecca followed by Medina a few days later if necessary.

When I watched the Twin Towers go down I said crap to my wife the sleeping dragon has just been awaken. I was expecting Bush to go before Congress asking for a declaration of war. Heck, even Gaddafi, the Russians, and others were quick to say we are sorry and please don't bomb and kill us.

The dragon blew it by not declaring war, naming countries, kicking ass and taking names. Instead the dragon rolled over and went back to sleep.


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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by jorgeI
"personal vendetta" what bullshit. I am in complete agreement we went into Iraq and indeed after 9/11 piecemal and not with the 'Total war' mindset of WWII. In my opinion what Bush should have done and at the time he had the backing of the entire political spectrum (save for a few kooks):

1. Formally declare war on the floor of the combined Houses
2. Put the country on a war footing, raise the possibility of a draft, war bonds, the works.
3. Gone into Iraq with the correct number of troops for an inavsing/occuping force.
4. Punish mercilessly any nation state supporting same.

And yes before anyone starts it, the intelligence was WRONG. Wont' be the first or last time, but to suggest the war as a personal vendetta is well, stupid.


when a president says "he tried to kill my father"

then yea, I'd say its a personal vendetta. I don't really care whether you think its bullshit or not - Bush and company ignored the voices telling him he was wrong, he squandered valuable US resources and goodwill on his white whale Iraq. Matter of fact they retaliated on the folks that told the world they were wrong.

Osama wasn't in Iraq. Al Qaeda wasn't in Iraq (until we destabilized the country) - so just why in the hell were we going into Iraq after 9/11?

Bush and company created a narrative to justify going into Iraq with 9/11 giving them the ability to do so.

And to add further insult to all of this - a country that had no...zero...terrorism on 9/12/2001 is ground zero for the biggest terrorism threat to us on the planet now.



Ron Paul's blow back that everybody laugh at.


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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs.

Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rover were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11.



Then why didn't Saddam allow the U.N. inspections?

Just because we didn't find any WMD doesn't mean they didn't/don't exist...he did use them on the Kurds.


yea, he used chemical weapons on the kurds - Bush was talking yellow cake uranium and aluminum tubes for enrichment - he was going down full blown nuke - not some mustard gas we already knew about a decade before.


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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs.

Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rover were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11.



Then why didn't Saddam allow the U.N. inspections?

Just because we didn't find any WMD doesn't mean they didn't/don't exist...he did use them on the Kurds.


Would the US allow UN inspections? Iraq was/is a sovereign nation. Said nation does not need to allow an foreign inspections for anything.

The UN is the real reason we are in this mess.


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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did.



Saddam Hussein rewarded terrorists every chance he got:
Saddam Pays 25K for Palestinian Bombers | Fox News
Fox News Channel:
Mar 26, 2002 - Saddam Hussein issues $25000 checks to the families of Palestinian ... a bonus for the families of martyrs, to reward those taking part in the ... So the Palestinian Authority is blatantly exposing its terrorist funding from Iraq?

BBC: Mar 3, 2003
Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel.
Relatives of at least one suicide attacker as well as other militants and civilians gathered in a hall in Gaza City to receive cheques.
"Iraq and Palestine are in one trench. Saddam is a hero," read a banner over a picture of the Iraqi leader and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat at the ceremony.
With war looming in the Middle East, Palestinian speakers condemned the United States and Israel, which dismissed the ceremony as support for terrorism.
One by one, at least 21 families came up to receive their cheques from the Palestinian Arab Liberation Front (PALF), a local pro-Iraq group.
A Hamas suicide bomber's family got $25,000 while the others - relatives of militants killed in fighting or civilians killed during Israeli military operations - all received $10,000 each.
Another banner in the hall described the cheques as the "blessings of Saddam Hussein" and PALF speakers extolled the Iraqi leader in fiery speeches.
"Saddam Hussein considers those who die in martyrdom attacks as people who have won the highest degree of martyrdom," said one.
The party estimated that Iraq had paid out $35m to Palestinian families since the current uprising began in September 2000.
Saddam's avowed support for the Palestinians, and his missile attacks on Israel during the Gulf War, have won him wide backing in the territories.




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and there you go

Bowsinger says we invaded Iraq because of Israel

see, its not just the false flaggers that make the connection, its the Israel support front here as well.


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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


And, yet, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The Saudis, however, did.



Saddam Hussein rewarded terrorists every chance he got:
Saddam Pays 25K for Palestinian Bombers | Fox News
Fox News Channel:
Mar 26, 2002 - Saddam Hussein issues $25000 checks to the families of Palestinian ... a bonus for the families of martyrs, to reward those taking part in the ... So the Palestinian Authority is blatantly exposing its terrorist funding from Iraq?

BBC: Mar 3, 2003
Saddam Hussein has paid out thousands of dollars to families of Palestinians killed in fighting with Israel.
Relatives of at least one suicide attacker as well as other militants and civilians gathered in a hall in Gaza City to receive cheques.
"Iraq and Palestine are in one trench. Saddam is a hero," read a banner over a picture of the Iraqi leader and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat at the ceremony.
With war looming in the Middle East, Palestinian speakers condemned the United States and Israel, which dismissed the ceremony as support for terrorism.
One by one, at least 21 families came up to receive their cheques from the Palestinian Arab Liberation Front (PALF), a local pro-Iraq group.
A Hamas suicide bomber's family got $25,000 while the others - relatives of militants killed in fighting or civilians killed during Israeli military operations - all received $10,000 each.
Another banner in the hall described the cheques as the "blessings of Saddam Hussein" and PALF speakers extolled the Iraqi leader in fiery speeches.
"Saddam Hussein considers those who die in martyrdom attacks as people who have won the highest degree of martyrdom," said one.
The party estimated that Iraq had paid out $35m to Palestinian families since the current uprising began in September 2000.
Saddam's avowed support for the Palestinians, and his missile attacks on Israel during the Gulf War, have won him wide backing in the territories.




That's Israel's problem, and still had nothing to do with AQ or 9/11.

Saddam was a worthless POS and should have been finished off by G.H.W.B.

Yet, like that other worthless POS, Ghaddafi, Saddam kept the lid on Islamic extremists in his country. We screwed the pooch on that one in Iraq and Libya, with nothing to show for it and distracting our focus from what it should have been - finding and killing Islamic extremists and their supporters (of course, that would have involved engaging, offending, eliminating Saudis and no one in DC has that kind of guts).


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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stiges of his minions, split th e
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by jorgeI
The "caring" part is obvious and mutual. Aside from the usual suspects, virtually everyone was in agreement based on the intel at hand from multiple sources, the WMDs were an issue. There was no reason, fiscal or otherwise to "create a narrative" justifying a war with no end game or benefits. The WMD issue was the factor and not the threat on his father. He had the overwhelming support of the Congress and the public. Did they screw it up? absolutely, but your premise the SOLE reason for Iraq was a vendetta, my original posit stands.


why did he have overwhelming support from Congress and the public? Because the narrative created saying they had WMDs.

Did they create the narrative or did he buy into the false information being presented to him? Paul Wolfowitz and Karl Rover were pushing for the invasion of Iraq before 9/11.



I can certainly entertain and debate that. So the "vendetta" issue is out the window I take it? Like Hatari pointed out, Hussein (the other) gambled against the mandate and lost. The "narrative" was created LONG before 9/11 and again two put the decision on just two rather low-grade individuals like the two you mentioned, I'm just not ready to buy into that. I am not a huge Bush fan, but one thing I am convinced of, he is not a frivolous and shallow kind of person to have risked all that blood and treasure on a vendetta or flimsy intelligence, let's just say I'm not ready to accept that. Did he screw up? yes, and I've said so before and many times.

I would have gone in with at least double the force, completely eradicated all his minions, split the country along tribal lines, kept their sheiks in Russian women, booze and fancy cars, and take their oil. To think you could turn that place or any other country over there into a western style democracy, was and IS stupid.


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Would the US allow UN inspections? Iraq was/is a sovereign nation. Said nation does not need to allow an foreign inspections for anything.

The UN is the real reason we are in this mess. [/quote]

Those inspections were a major part of his surrender agreement.


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jorge,

It wasn't just Rove and Wolfowitz. It was a clear agenda of the Project for a New American Century, a neo-conservative think tank that included those two as well as William Kristol, Dick Cheney, Richard Perle, Robert Kagan, Donald Rumsfeld, Eliott Abrams, Zalmay Khalilzad, I. Lewis Libby, and quite a few others


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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We always try to separate the 'good' from the 'bad' when they are forever linked.

You can't defeat Obama, and his ilk, without changing the attitudes of 80 million plus people. Sure, vote Obama out, big deal, there will be another like him. You need to change the people.

Just as you can't defeat the 'bad' Muslims when they are continually harbored by and recruited from the 'good' Muslims. Eliminate one 'bad' Muslim group and another comes along to take its place.



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Originally Posted by Raeford


Would the US allow UN inspections? Iraq was/is a sovereign nation. Said nation does not need to allow an foreign inspections for anything.

The UN is the real reason we are in this mess.


Those inspections were a major part of his surrender agreement.[/quote]

Okay I'll give you that. Removing Hessian has sure been a benefit to the US especially as we initially supported Hessian.

If the US has a foreign policy I sure would like to know what it is.


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I've been "accused" of being a NEOCON by a few here (whateverthephuck that means as I've NEVER seen a clear definition). I do admit to being an imperialist of sorts I suppose (Manifest Destiny WAS imperialism and nothing more), but again if the motive was to eradicate a dictator who in our view and based on solid intel from MANY sources had WMDs, I'm OK with that, but if the rationale was to also establishing a western-style democracy, THAT was and is idiotic.


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We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.

Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head.


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I'm simply going by how they defined themselves at that time, not casting aspersions.

I could have cared less whether he had WMDs. At that time, and now, we have one clear object - to root out and destroy radical Islamic terrorists. Saddam and WMDs had nothing to do with that objective. Attacking him instead of going after those responsible for and backing the radical Islamic terrorists was stupid from the get-go.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by Steelhead
We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.

Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head.


Screw the liberal masses. If someone wants to kill you, then you have two choices: kill them, or be killed. We took our eye off of who it was that wanted to kill us, and haven't figured out how to get back on that bead.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Why kill? We can talk to them and become friends. Hell, maybe even let them have our daughters.

That's the liberal mindset.

We don't have the leadership to do what needs to be done, just as we don't have the populace to understand that you can't 'reason' with them.

Hell, we've forgotten 9/11, I think it will take a few nukes in a few cities to MAYBE get the people 'angry'.


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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by Steelhead
We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.

Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head.


Screw the liberal masses. If someone wants to kill you, then you have two choices: kill them, or be killed. We took our eye off of who it was that wanted to kill us, and haven't figured out how to get back on that bead.


I agree, but that's not the flavor of the country these days. Love the Muslim.

People have no [bleep] idea and likely won't, even when it's too late.

Tolerance is FAR overrated.


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If the US has a foreign policy I sure would like to know what it is. [/quote]

When/if you get that info, please do pass it along to Obozo.


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Originally Posted by 4ager
I'm simply going by how they defined themselves at that time, not casting aspersions.

I could have cared less whether he had WMDs. At that time, and now, we have one clear object - to root out and destroy radical Islamic terrorists. Saddam and WMDs had nothing to do with that objective. Attacking him instead of going after those responsible for and backing the radical Islamic terrorists was stupid from the get-go.


That's where we have a disagreement and I'm sure we are at odds over Iran as well. To my way of thinking, we should have gone in there already and sorted them out....then take their oil and yes eradicted the terrorists as well, but that means commitment, and we haven't done that since WWII>


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Originally Posted by jorgeI
Originally Posted by 4ager
I'm simply going by how they defined themselves at that time, not casting aspersions.

I could have cared less whether he had WMDs. At that time, and now, we have one clear object - to root out and destroy radical Islamic terrorists. Saddam and WMDs had nothing to do with that objective. Attacking him instead of going after those responsible for and backing the radical Islamic terrorists was stupid from the get-go.


That's where we have a disagreement and I'm sure we are at odds over Iran as well. To my way of thinking, we should have gone in there already and sorted them out....then take their oil and yes eradicted the terrorists as well, but that means commitment, and we haven't done that since WWII>


Iranian ties to terrorism might be a good bit easier to make, but we should have sorted them out in 1979/1980.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by Steelhead
Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by Steelhead
We can't go to war and appease the liberal masses. It's wrong to kill the people that want to kill you. We can help them become a democracy, talk to them, sympathize with them, but we can't just kill people because they want to kill us. That's just wrong.

Ask the 2 reporters running around the desert without a head.


Screw the liberal masses. If someone wants to kill you, then you have two choices: kill them, or be killed. We took our eye off of who it was that wanted to kill us, and haven't figured out how to get back on that bead.


I agree, but that's not the flavor of the country these days. Love the Muslim.

People have no [bleep] idea and likely won't, even when it's too late.

Tolerance is FAR overrated.


Agreed.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by Steelhead

People have no [bleep] idea and likely won't, even when it's too late.


As proven by quite a few posters here...

I wonder how many radical islamic doctors are over in west africa getting as much tainted ebola blood as they can? It doesn't take a very imaginative mind to figure out a whole chitload of ways muzzys could wreak havoc on the world...

Lots of other biological agents too...

What about pakistanis & nukes???

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Originally Posted by Steelhead

People have no [bleep] idea and likely won't, even when it's too late.


It won't be too late.

Assuming that ISIS and similar have crossed the border and are here, and will recruit among converts and Muslim immigrants, and manage to blow up some restaurants, shoot up some shopping malls and bring down some airliners, they could kill, oh, I don't know, up to 10,000 Americans a year for, say, four or five years. And gravely injure four or five times as many.

The bloodier it gets, the faster Americans will shed the cow-like tolerance they have now. Nothing is quite so fragile as the veneer of genteel civilization among the English-speaking peoples.

I foresee a day when there isn't a single mosque left standing in the United States. Maybe not in my lifetime, but one day. First, we have to bleed on American soil. More than we have.

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It's sad, truly.

Years ago, I left the military, and police work, and EMS - knowing full well the toll that life took on my longevity.

I did it, I kept doing it.

I never really liked it, in hindsight, but I was good at it.

Then.

It would be a shame in my later years that the ineptitude of people to see the trouble before them and take appropriate action will ultimately mean the legacy I leave my daughter and grandkids is that ole RWE had to do his best for the homeland, regardless of his personal being.

Not that I won't, I just wish I didn't have to.

I resent on a personal level the powers that be that may allow it to happen.






(wonder if that little diatribe will get me on a list)

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Originally Posted by tjm10025

The bloodier it gets, the faster Americans will shed the cow-like tolerance they have now. Nothing is quite so fragile as the veneer of genteel civilization among the English-speaking peoples.


I disagree...I don't think "most" would ever step foot off their "moral high ground" far enough to do what's needed...regardless of how bloody it gets. If 9/11 wasn't enough to get their attention, nothing will...
http://.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/29/mosques-in-united-states-study_n_1307851.html

I don't normally get news from hufpo but figured that using a lib source might better illustrate my point.


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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
If 9/11 wasn't enough to get their attention ...


It wasn't. It has to get so much worse than that.

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First we need to get rid of all the liberals; and start kicking ass and taking names! wink


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RWE, it seems we share similar backgrounds except I liked a lot of it but I think I know where you are coming from.

Basic rules of war. and life: if someone trys to kill you, kill them back. If someone wants to kill you, kill them first.

After 9/11 we declared "a global war on terror" Our military went to war and killed people and broke things, America went shopping.

Total war means conditioning hostile populations and any that support them to fear you above all things. There is no other historical precedent that offers a solution to these savages and their sick beliefs. I have no problem w/ eradicating them if it protects my family. Your belief system may differ.

mike r



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Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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I'm with tjm, it's gotta be much worse this time to get these idiots attention. Hundreds of thousands will need to perish.

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Obama should send a harshly worded hash tag !!!


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Originally Posted by lvmiker
I have no problem w/ eradicating them if it protects my family. Your belief system may differ.

mike r



Mike,

I have no problem with it.

Like anyone that has put any real thought into the matter, I would really really like to enjoy the time I'm allotted with my kin.

Anyone taking that from me, via endangering my family or their life, liberty or pursuits thereof, will know what extreme prejudice is all about. Even if it kills me, which if not physically, will assuredly change my sunny disposition forever. I've seen the break point a few times and would much rather stay on this side from now on.

Again, no problem. I just know what it will cost. I've got the payment ready either way.

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Originally Posted by lvmiker
R(snip)
Basic rules of war. and life: if someone trys to kill you, kill them back. If someone wants to kill you, kill them first.

After 9/11 we declared "a global war on terror" Our military went to war and killed people and broke things, America went shopping.

(snip)



While our politicians may have declared war, they didn't allow our military to conduct a war.

If we had conducted an all out war in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Afghani's and Iraqi's wouldn't be harboring Al Qaeda and ISIS because the would have feared us more than them.

That is how you win, hit them 10 or 100 times harder so that they take care of things so we don't.

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RWE, exactly the way I feel.

mike r


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Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
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Originally Posted by 458 Lott
Originally Posted by lvmiker
R(snip)
Basic rules of war. and life: if someone trys to kill you, kill them back. If someone wants to kill you, kill them first.

After 9/11 we declared "a global war on terror" Our military went to war and killed people and broke things, America went shopping.

(snip)



While our politicians may have declared war, they didn't allow our military to conduct a war.

If we had conducted an all out war in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Afghani's and Iraqi's wouldn't be harboring Al Qaeda and ISIS because the would have feared us more than them.

That is how you win, hit them 10 or 100 times harder so that they take care of things so we don't.


America went after countries instead of the real enemy...Islam.

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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner


America went after countries instead of the real enemy...Islam.


True, but if we make it untenable for the countries that harbor the islamists to harbor them, they will police their own.

What the Western people fail to grasp is what we need is not to respected, we need to be feared.

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Originally Posted by Middlefork_Miner
Originally Posted by Steelhead

People have no [bleep] idea and likely won't, even when it's too late.


As proven by quite a few posters here...

I wonder how many radical islamic doctors are over in west africa getting as much tainted ebola blood as they can? It doesn't take a very imaginative mind to figure out a whole chitload of ways muzzys could wreak havoc on the world...

Lots of other biological agents too...

What about pakistanis & nukes???



America has no strategy, but ISIS does: Biological terrorism
posted HOT AIR August 29, 2014 by Noah Rothman

...According to a report in Foreign Policy magazine on Thursday, investigators recently had an opportunity to inspect a Dell laptop allegedly linked to ISIS which was transported to Turkey from Syria.
In that laptop, which belonged to a man who studied chemistry and physics at two Tunisian universities, contained files with instructions on how to manufacture weaponized bacterial agents.
The ISIS laptop contains a 19-page document in Arabic on how to develop biological weapons and how to weaponize the bubonic plague from infected animals.
�The advantage of biological weapons is that they do not cost a lot of money, while the human casualties can be huge,� the document states.
The document includes instructions for how to test the weaponized disease safely, before it is used in a terrorist attack. �When the microbe is injected in small mice, the symptoms of the disease should start to appear within 24 hours,� the document says.


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I MISS SARAH

“In Trump We Trust.” Right????

SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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