I don't have the actual message I left for customer service but it was related to the same issue many here are experiencing. My Sako is a Finnlight in 30-06. Fired cases eject straight up into the bottom of the scope whether I run the bolt fast, slow or in between. The scope is a Zeiss Conquest HD5 1" tube in Leupold Medium rings. Cases strike the scope and either fall back down on the follower or rattle around and manage to roll off the action.
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Thank you for contacting Beretta Customer Support.
Beretta's Service Position on this issue is shown below:
"Occasionally, we receive customer complaints regarding Sako 85 rifles ejecting spent cases that either strike the scope or strike the scope turret and fall back inside the action of the rifle. This situation is predominately caused by both the scope mounts and type of scope (particularly scopes with extended turrets) installed on the rifle. A secondary consideration is how rigorously the bolt is operated by the user.
Beretta will not consider rifles that exhibit the condition above to be a warranty issue. Provided that the rifle fully extracts and ejects the spent casing, the rifle will be considered functional and serviceable. Sako cannot anticipate every possible scope mounting configuration when designing their rifles. Since the selection and installation of the scope and mounts are determined by the owner, it is the owner�s responsibility to ensure that the system will not interfere with the operation of the rifle."
Regarding your specific inquiry, there is no "fix" for this condition as the ejector is not adjustable in this rifle. The comments that you have read regarding "extractor spring pressure" are not valid. The spring pressure does not affect the ejection trajectory of the casing. The bottom line is if the rifle extracts and ejects the casing, it is considered functional.
Finally, in spite of the Internet chatter, a review of the service history for the Sako 85 rifle over the past 24 months indicates that a fraction of a percent of the rifles sold are returned for service for this issue.
Our suggestion would be to experiment with different scope mounts and/or type of scope to determine what will work best on your rifle.
Best regards,
Beretta Customer Support
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And yes, I took the survey. At the bottom there was a box for comments and I filled it.
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This is refusing to take responsibility for a defective product. I will not stop here. I promise you that. To say this is not a known and obvious problem is an outright falsehood. The cartridge ejection system on the Sako 85 long action is faulty. When a cartridge case is ejected straight up with a modern bolt action at slow speed, moderate and fast speed it is not the fault of the rifle scope or mounts. Ejecting straight up the case will strike the scope no matter the tube diameter or ring height. I am extremely dissatisfied with your response. To respond in this manner is insulting. You are already getting extremely bad advertising because of your refusal to provide a remedy for this issue. I can assure you I will do my part to extend this service. Good day.
So according to Beretta it isn't a design fault or a parts fault or an assembly fault. It is the shooter's fault for mounting a scope with turrets. I'm accustomed to people lying but it really grinds my gut when they know it's a lie and know that I know it's a lie but ask me to believe it anyway. Not sure of the next step. Have other issues ongoing that require my attention. Bad time to deal with crap like that. I'm steaming.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
That's just plain BS. Either the design, parts, or assembly are faulty. I'm running a Zeiss 1" diameter tube with standard turrets in Leupold Medium height rings. You just don't get more plain vanilla than that. The cartridge cases eject STRAIGHT UP. It wouldn't matter if I was using a 30mm tube with target turrets. Nor would it matter the ring height. If the cases eject straight up they cannot clear the scope. And the rifle is meant for scope mounting because it has internal bases and no open sights. You can give me all the company position responses you like but that does not change the facts.
I am retired from over 25 years of sales and/or service of capital medical equipment. I am very familiar with design issues and customer service. Fortunately for you the FDA does not get involved with firearms. I say all this to let you know I'm familiar with how product issues can arise and how they are handled. On this issue you have your corporate head in the sand. At this point I am not sure of my next step. But I assure you there will be a next step. There are agencies that complaints on product defects such as this can be directed to. I am not at all happy with your response.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
That's Beretta. I sent a Sako 75 to them because it wouldn't chamber factory ammo. When it came back someone had clamped the receiver in a vice without any padding and allowed it to even slip. It was horribly scratched. Beretta refused to take the blame and claimed the bolt had come loose in shipping and marked the receiver. Tough bolt because there wasn't a single mark on it.
The gun was new and my dealer had sent it in for me. He refunded my money. If it had not been for him I would have been screwed.
Ah yezzz, ze old ejectshonn probleem. Ve only shuut but von at a tayme, silly Amedican. Eeet falls baack to ze chambuu, so ve dunt have to beeend ova to peek it up....
Frenchy get hornaa, might steek hees peepee een da hiney, no?
Thanks shootem, you just convinced me to save myself and my dad, and lose beretta about 3 grand. I was going to buy a black bear in 9.3x62 and my dad was going to pick up an A400 shotgun tomorrow. After reading your wonderful experience with them along with the thread on the black bear having the same issues, I will not buy any beretta product again. I sent this link to my dad and he's likely going to pass on the shotgun as well. My guess on why they have so few 85s being sent in for repair is the way they responded to you, saying they will not accept if for warranty work. If it was me and I was treated like that, I would probably call the president of beretta, put the letter and a link to this thread up on Facebook and in every gun related website, and file complaints with the BBB. This could easily turn into a product liability issue if someone got hurt due to this well documented issue and got charged and hooked by a buff or shredded by a grizz. Guess having a deep pocket military contract has made them a bit insensitive to their customers. As soon as the mil pulls their heads out of their azzes and fields out troops with something other than the M9, this crap will continue with beretta. Look at colts wonderful customer oriented service (non existant) until they lost the M4 exclusivity. It's amazing how much friendlier to their customers colt has become since.
So did you expect them to redesign their whole line so you can use the scope of your choice?
This is a well known issue from their M995 line years and years ago.
What did you have in mind? How can they have helped you out?
BTW if you get the lower profile scopes they work great. Think leupold CDS or Bushnell 6500 2,5x16......
Also I nave never seen a sako or Tikka that was not sub MOA. None leave the factory without shooting under 1". If one snuck out they will make it right...
Fotis, what the hell are you talking about? I expect a modern bolt action rifle designed to use optical sights to perform in an acceptable manner with a 1" diameter scope tube mounted in Medium rings. What did I have in mind? I had in mind the Sako 85 giving reliable ejection within the specs above. How can they (Beretta in this case) help me? By making a product that performs as intended. And by recognizing a design flaw and making it good to the end user. Leupold CDS and Bushnell 6500s have absolutely nothing to do with this issue. They as the Zeiss are 1" diameter tubes. The tube is what resides over the bolt opening. Rethink your comments.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
So did you expect them to redesign their whole line so you can use the scope of your choice?
This is a well known issue from their M995 line years and years ago.
What did you have in mind? How can they have helped you out?
BTW if you get the lower profile scopes they work great. Think leupold CDS or Bushnell 6500 2,5x16......
Also I nave never seen a sako or Tikka that was not sub MOA. None leave the factory without shooting under 1". If one snuck out they will make it right...
Umm, well...yea? If this is a problem that many customers have complained about then yes, I think they should find a solution. Don't you?
Or you could find a solution yourself. Couldn't you monkey with the ejector face, sorta like one would with a 1911? Don't know anything about the guts of a Sucko, so that's a guess...
Yeah it's probably coming down to creative engineering. Not going to ditch it. I'm thinking the spring replacement will probably work but just burns me up that the manufacturer doesn't stand behind the product. Like I said in my reply to Beretta, I'm familiar with products that didn't go just as planned. It happens. No need to lie and duck responsibility. Live up to obligtions. But Beretta and Sako say no thanks.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
So did you expect them to redesign their whole line so you can use the scope of your choice?
This is a well known issue from their M995 line years and years ago.
What did you have in mind? How can they have helped you out?
BTW if you get the lower profile scopes they work great. Think leupold CDS or Bushnell 6500 2,5x16......
Also I nave never seen a sako or Tikka that was not sub MOA. None leave the factory without shooting under 1". If one snuck out they will make it right...
Someone let being super cool moderator over on the nosler forum go to their head [bleep]... And no i will not drive to wyoming for a fist fight...
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Shootem, evidently you don't know the proper technique to working a bolt action rifle cause no way could a guaranteed to shoot sub MOA 5 shot group Sako model 85 (the perfect rifle)possibly malfunction!........grin.......I have owned a pile of Model 85's and other Sako models and whether the Sako fanboy's want to admit it or not this ejection issue does exist in some rifle's, Out of the dozen or so I have owned two had this ejection issue, I sent one back to Berreta and was blown off with a similar response..........Just because you happen to own a Sako 85 or three that aren't afflicted with this problem doesn't mean it don't exist................Hb
Well if Beretta can't fix it,looks like a good market out there for a good gunsmith.I'm not doubting there is an issue.The issue seems to only be with the L action.I have a 85s 308 that functions flawless.I can't believe there is any difference between the L and S action or bolt other than being longer.To me logic dictates it IS an ejector problem.If that is the case it CAN be fixed. I'm not defending Beretta.They seem to have a reputation for poor CS.They SHOULD make it right or issue a refund. VaHillbilly,I'm curious.You had a pile of them.Did you ever try to swap bolts with say a good one and a bad one?Just wondering. I know if I had one I would do my all to fix it myself. Screw those idiots. To the Sako slammers,I just have to laugh at the BS.Clueless. Don't care if you like my shorts either.I don't buy to please others or go with the crowd.
Sorry,I drank the Sako-Aid.My opinion may be biased. bh444
... No need to lie and duck responsibility. Live up to obligations. ...
Unfortunately, "ducking responsibility" or blaming someone else is the standard mode of operation for most companies today. It makes the few companies that do stand up and "make it right" look like saints, when in fact, that should be the norm.
Companies that fail to acknowledge the power of internet forums and social media to mold perceptions and opinions about their products will also fade into the sunset over the next 10 to 20 years. Looks like Beretta may be one of them...
Companies that fail to acknowledge the power of internet forums and social media to mold perceptions and opinions about their products will also fade into the sunset over the next 10 to 20 years. Looks like Beretta may be one of them...
I doubt it. That company's been around for 500 some years so they must be doing something right. As far as the internet molding perceptions, for every con there is a pro so people tend to want to find out for them selfs in the end.
Wow, Beretta's response is ridiculous. Glad Eurooptic took my non-functional 9.3 back. How long have you had it? Have you tried talking with the gun shop you bought it from?
Companies have no sense of tradition, no sense of honor, no pride.
Since they say it can't be fixed, I would trade it off, buy something else, and spend a little spare time lighting them up good and proper on every shooting website I could find.
If you can't bring yourself to letting the rifle go, I would consider trying to contact Sako directly. It's possible that they may still give a rat's ass about their reputation.
Since some or most of these rifles do work properly, there is a reason yours doesn't, and most likely they know what it is, but aren't willing to fix it because it would cost them too much. A good smith might be able to correct it, but you certainly shouldn't have to pay for that.
There's no excuse for a rifle that costs that much and doesn't function.
Beretta makes some great firearms. One thing they seldom do is make a mistake they will admit to. Know it going in.
And it will take longer than most are willing to wait for them to decide they were not at fault if you send it into them for evaluation, been that way for years.
Addition: Then again, if you know someone on the inside things can get taken care of rather quickly. Most don't.
Companies have no sense of tradition, no sense of honor, no pride.
If you can't bring yourself to letting the rifle go, I would consider trying to contact Sako directly. It's possible that they may still give a rat's ass about their reputation.
Bypassing the importer Beretta USA might be the only option. Are Canadians having CS problems with Stoeger? There must be some 85s with feeding problems up there.
And it will take longer than most are willing to wait for them to decide they were not at fault if you send it into them for evaluation, been that way for years.
Those Allen head screws in the rings are a good example. How many years of people complaining before they switched to torx heads
The issue occurs when a person mounts the scope fairly close to their eye vs. guys who lean in a bit more. It can often be fixed by pushing your scope forward a bit.
Go look at the slow motion sako 85 ejection YouTube video.
This has all been a terrible mistake. I just went to the Sako website, and it states quite clearly, "When you buy a Sako, you get a thoroughly tested quality rifle."
Obviously, you must have purchased something else.
It would be impossible for your cases to eject straight up, unless the bottom half of the extractor claw was way off, or you had almost zero spring pressure.
Designed into the bolt is a small amount of clearance between the back of the inserted cartridge under the claw extractor and the bolt face. The claw, under spring pressure clamps down against the case within the recess of the bolt face. The only direction for the case to flip out from this grip, is in the angle toward the extractor claw. The initial upward motion is the case cocking upward under the claw within the space of that clearance against the standing ejector. Once that clearance is maxed out, the case would either need to push the extractor claw away against the spring tension to be released and allowed to continue straight up, or, there would have to be an insufficient/damaged claw on the bottom half of the extractor for the case to slip through and continue being pushed straight up.
If the claw is good, and the spring tension is good, the case will not push through the claw straight up. Once the case is tipped against the extractor, that play is gone, and then at that point, the standing ejectory pushes the case in the direction of the claw which is maintaining a grip on the case. The case then flips out and is ejected in that direction.
I'd not worry one minute about Beretta USA. They are the importer, not the maker. If you wish to attempt a cheap fix, and you have the skill to take apart the bolt, then do so. The spring is actually only about $2, but they come in a multi-pack, so the price runs up to about $10. You have a couple "non-gunsmith" options. Gre'-Tan makes a very good standard length spring, in addition, they make an extended spring, which was the one used by LRCampos. The spring is designed to be the same length as the spring recess is deep. This give enough clearance to add the plunger and then depress the plunger and spring deep enough to clear the extractor for installation and removal. The extended spring are designed to make corrections for when the recess is machined too deep for a standard length spring. Two methods of using the extended spring are to, one (1), deepen the hole to the same depth as the extended spring is long, or, two (2), trim the spring to the maximum length for it to fit. Either way, you end up with greater tension.
My size M action for 30-06 length cartridges has ample spring tension from straight out the box. The ejected case cannot push the extractor aside so to be ejected straight up. But, I must throw in a disclaimer in that I completely disassembled my bolt when new, and then cleaned and lubed all the parts. I am unsure if this slicked things up that otherwise may have been sticky, but the extractor fits properly and the tension is textbook perfect.
I have not made an attempt to do so, but it may be possible to temporarily increase spring tension, for purposes of testing, to the degree of nearly locking up the extractor solid by placing shim stock between the plunger face and the extractor notch. It would be temporary, because the shim would eventually walk itself out from repeated cycles. But, as long as the case is inserted from under the extractor, NOT, snapping the tight extractor over the case, you should see a dramatic change in the ejection angle, if it is currently going straight up.
Good Luck!
Edit to add:
At the chamber, from the firing pin center to the scope tube center measures 1.55". This should give you an idea how much room Mine has at the port in relation to yours.
Best
Last edited by GaryVA; 09/06/14.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Remember this isn't really sako,,,,they are no more. This is beretta whoring the name on the street for profit only. Riding on a quality name. Really 300 dollar rugers and Remington's well eject a spent carterage without a hitch.. Cut your losses and buy a L61 R
I tried the spring replacement but it didn't work. Played with the ejector height and that didn't work. I even tried a different bolt that I know works, but it didn't work in my problem child.
I think my action doesn't have a large enough opening, needs more width. The case seems to catch the rail and gets pushed up at a higher angle. That is beyond my ability to find out. I'll try medium rings and see if I can get by without hitting the scope.
I tried the spring replacement but it didn't work. Played with the ejector height and that didn't work. I even tried a different bolt that I know works, but it didn't work in my problem child.
I think my action doesn't have a large enough opening, needs more width. The case seems to catch the rail and gets pushed up at a higher angle. That is beyond my ability to find out. I'll try medium rings and see if I can get by without hitting the scope.
Jurt sell the damn thing and be done with it
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
Regarding your specific inquiry, there is no "fix" for this condition as the ejector is not adjustable in this rifle. The comments that you have read regarding "extractor spring pressure" are not valid. The spring pressure does not affect the ejection trajectory of the casing. The bottom line is if the rifle extracts and ejects the casing, it is considered functional. .
Of coarse extractor spring pressure is not valid, they don't want to be on the hook for replacing a .3 cent spring. Would be interesting to see if this problem goes away on current production.
All this thread is pure bs and waste of time... You re fu... Ass.... Today i learnt leupold and sako were just good to end up in a trash bag...
Just hilarious... I have 6 sako, 4 sako 85... The only itch I can experience is with the 338 WMG. when I eject a LOADED brass to slowly sometimes the brass hit the cds turret of my leupold BUT no jam nothing I can't live with... And it's only when I move very very slowly the bolt action... So I'm honest enough to assume I make the problem....
If you operate the bolt like an alzheimer.... Nobody can help you.... But it seems lots of guy are alzheimer here.... They move from other forum and pollute with s.... A forum which was clean before of bashers...
but I'm not surprise at all... If you operate your bolt action like some famous pro on tv show...
Guys are not able to operate the bolt action without remove the rifle from their shoulder AND look at the ejection port...
I have seen hunter under stress jam a blaser r93 line action !!! After a first shot on a brown bear.... The guy was pissing the rifle.... The problem was him....
All this thread is pure bs and waste of time... You re fu... Ass.... Today i learnt leupold and sako were just good to end up in a trash bag...
Just hilarious... I have 6 sako, 4 sako 85... The only itch I can experience is with the 338 WMG. when I eject a LOADED brass to slowly sometimes the brass hit the cds turret of my leupold BUT no jam nothing I can't live with... And it's only when I move very very slowly the bolt action... So I'm honest enough to assume I make the problem....
If you operate the bolt like an alzheimer.... Nobody can help you.... But it seems lots of guy are alzheimer here.... They move from other forum and pollute with s.... A forum which was clean before of bashers...
Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
I changed the spring on mine and filed about a 15 deg angle on the ejector. That was about a 25 % help to the ejection..still needs improvement though.
(Fotis)Things being as they are, meaning you already own the rifle which was designed as it was, what could they have possibly done for you?
Fotis, these rifles are still being sold with either a design, component, or assembly problem; possibly a combination. Shooters continue to unknowingly buy this problem. There are enough testimonials coming forth on this and other threads to be certain of that. What Beretta/Sako can do for me and others experiencing this problem on a $1500 rifle is determine and correct the problem. That is how a reputable manufacturer supports a product. Been there done that.
Rifle itself was purchase unfired in the box right here on the fire. Some of you may remember there was a 30-06 and 25-06 along with two of the Zeiss scoped for sale in the Classifieds by one of our members. The rifle is still unfired. BTW the seller played absolutely no role in this issue.
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(GaryVA)It would be impossible for your cases to eject straight up
GaryVA, The case necks are striking the bottom of the scope turret as nearly as I can tell from watching them and seeing the marks left. Maybe not dead center straight up but close enough for them to drop back down into the ejection port. Can't tell you why. Can only speculate ejector is popping the case rim off the extractor for some reason?????? I'll pull the scope when time allows to get a better view of the case travel.
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(Pharmseller)It might be interesting to ask which rings and scope they recommend for your rifle to function properly. Then install same and video the results.
Pharmseller, with unlimited resources maybe. But visual proof is redundant. Customer service has seen this problem before. They know it is real. The choice has been made to deny the problem. As a "pharm seller" I imagine you have seen one or two products that didn't turn out exactly as planned. And I doubt the fix was to just deny the problem. You just don't do that to your customers.
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(UAE)All this thread is pure bs and waste of time... You re fu... Ass....etc,etc,etc,et al.
Ur An Ediot....I refuse to believe you're real. Just another pretender in a clown suit strutting and fretting your hour upon the stage until you are no more.
Bottom line folks, there is a fairly common problem that ain't of the consumer's doing and customer service refuses to acknowledge and address it. ANY bolt action rifle must eject fired cases clear of a 1" scope tube with standard turrets mounted in medium rings to be considered functional. Every time. As long as the bolt is operated with enough force for the blade ejector to function properly and the brass is serviceable, the Sako must eject brass in an arc that misses common scope and mount components. If not then there is fault with the rifle. Remington, Ruger, Winchester, Sako, CZ, Marlin, Mossberg, Weatherby housing either plunger or blade ejectors do not have this issue to the extent experienced with the 85M.
Just don't have any more time to spend on this today. Got too much other local stuff to remedy and we just got back from a family visit after finding out my sister-in-law has a meningioma (brain tumor) about 3" x 2" x 1" between the frontal lobes of her brain. In 3 weeks there is a major surgery scheduled. Sako has dropped way down on the priority list for now.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Hope things work out reference your sister-in-law.
If otherwise the rifle works well for you, and you can work the kink out, then when the smoke clears from your pressing problems, take the scope off and look at the ejection angle. Don't recall if this thread or one of the others, but if you read, the one guy claimed he traced his issue to the rifle ejecting too low, when it was striking the rail and then bouncing up. So, between your stated complaint of ejecting closer to the 12 oclock position, and his complaint of ejecting closer to the 3 oclock position, that covers the entire map.
As for UAE, I think he says "actions speak louder than words". He is a doer on the level of most extreme when it comes to hunting big stuff. He uses what works and he doesn't mince words when it comes to fluff from guys who tend to point fingers at everything but themselves.
I am confident if it were my rifle, I could deduce the issue that would cause the ejection to be either closer to 12 oclock, or closer to 3 oclock. When it comes to such production rifles, every single one you have noted, at times, has had feed issues needing correcting, being they are not hand fitted custom guns, but are production line mass assembled guns. Like UAE, I've run these Sakos chambered in 375, 338, and now 9.3x62, with total reliability. They fit me like a custom gun, and I continue to rank them as one of my favorite out the box production hunting rifles.
Good Luck
Last edited by GaryVA; 09/09/14.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Sorry about the blow-up earlier. FYI here's the latest communication from CS. Only 1 work order in 4 years on my model rifle. Of course that may be because they don't issue work orders for this problem.
I reviewed the service history on your model rifle for the past 4 years and found only one work order related to ejection issues in spite of the quantity sold during the same time period.
Although I understand your frustration, I believe that the issue remains as originally stated.
If you desire, you may send your rifle to Beretta for evaluation.
Best regards,
Beretta Customer Support
After videoing the ejection pattern with and without scope I'll send the rifle in for evaluation as they suggest so I'll have documentation. If it comes back with the same issue I'll video again to compare.
If there are still others out there with unresolved ejection problems on the 85M it would probably help we all complain at once. To contact them you have to register, sign in, then fill in the form. That's the easy part.
edit: In the meanwhile here's somebody else's video of a similar long action problem even with a scope mounted fairly high and having standard turrets.
After viewing this and other videos it appears short action cases rise from the ejection port at the same angle but don't have the length to strike the scope before being pulled outward. I imagine loaded rounds, being longer still, will have even greater chance of ejection problems. Except in the case of a misfire in the field that probably won't matter because loaded rounds aren't generally ejected with great force.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
I'd sell and move on. You'll always hate that rifle....
You know the thing that upsets me most about the 85's known issues are not the issues themselves. Every mechanical thing has quirks and mistakes happen in both design and manufacturing. It is the fact that Beretta is A) refusing to acknowledge the issue B) Could care less about selling rifles with known issues C) refusing to fix said issue D) Has very little interest in pleasing their customers E) Their willingness to blame the consumer
I'm sure when they said he could send the rifle back, they meant at his expense without a prepaid shipping label.
Shootem, I hate that you are having this issue with rifle. I had not heard of the 85 ejection issue until recently. I likely would not have purchased the rifle, and thus would not have passed it on to you, had I known about this problem.
I went off on them. I said the notion of trying different scopes and mounting system until you find one that works is ridiculous. What is one to do order 10 scopes and 10 bases and or rings and see what makes it go?
It did happen to me also with a 30-378 and leupold with the M1 turrets. The bushy 6500 2.5x16 fixed that issue
Shootem, I hate that you are having this issue with rifle. I had not heard of the 85 ejection issue until recently. I likely would not have purchased the rifle, and thus would not have passed it on to you, had I known about this problem.
Tech this is NOT your problem. You played no role in it. You never tried the rifle and neither of us had any reason to suspect a new Sako wouldn't eject cartridges properly. Every detail of the purchase was just as advertised and discussed. Rifle and scope were new in the box. The problem lies with Beretta/Sako and their willingness to continue selling rifles that have a significant incidence of failure. I appreciate your concern but absolutely do not blame you in any way whatsoever. But if you still have the 25-06 you might want to run some empties thru it. Best to you. MC
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
It's not just an 85 issue, some of the 75s do it as well. Had to go to a scope with really low pro turret caps on my M75 270Win. It had a VXIII on it and after it jammed on me a couple times in the field, I lost confidence in it. Same deal, brass smacked scope and fell back in port. I replaced the VXIII with an old Vari-X II as it had lower caps, but I still don't trust it.
On some Remington 788's there was a similar problem. The fix was to turn the scope 90 degrees in the rings with the windage knob pointing up and the elevation knob on the left. Up and down is left or right, etc.
I've had this issue on a couple 85s. I sold the first (270wsm). The other is a 85 Finnlight in 30-06. I called Accuflite and was told to soak the bolt in degreaser and work the extractor while flooded with degreaser. Lubed well after with Remoil. It now works so well I've been able to use the low ring mounts with no cases hitting. I think it was old sticky assembly lube causing problems in that gun.
Continued contact with Beretta will only prolong misery Shootem. Best of luck.
Growing up in a family that shot mostly Sakos (older stuff nothing new) it is sad to see what they have become. Even worse is the customer service response.
Beretta executive staff are former black&decker guys..... So No comments.... I met some Sako finn staff and they are all competent passionated hunters or shooters.... They wouldn't let go a rifle with a such design flaw....
Now piss off Sako rifle is just f.... BS..... Maybe you're unlucky and get a bad one.... Like in any production from any kind from any manufacturer IT's HAPPEN.... But for sure with sako.... less than with some other rifle manufacturer.....
All this thread is lead by 2 expert-kind of basher or stubborn redneck... They can't handle or hear any other comment than negative one about sako.....
If I had experienced trouble with my sako 85 I would follow LRcampos spring fix solution. As I'm open minded I even ordered some spring to look at....
Maybe I'm lucky but it means thousands of other sako's users are either.
In english..... . You ask for german..... Italian ? Love live in america.... But [bleep]..... Redneck of midwest and south are worst, stupid, stubborn and ........ than anywhere.... Definitively a waste of time.... Put your sako 85 action in your ass.... sit on it or sell it !!!
I got one and had a 375 made up on it. Back then I didn't appreciate CRF which the sako lacks and you want for a DGR and a decent safety. The L61R has only a trigger safety.
In english..... . You ask for german..... Italian ? Love live in america.... But [bleep]..... Redneck of midwest and south are worst, stupid, stubborn and ........ than anywhere.... Definitively a waste of time.... Put your sako 85 action in your ass.... sit on it or sell it !!!
Dear best friend from alooobama.... What don't you understand ?? 4464 posts.... Make you an expert ??? It's fun when you work in major cities people speak english and everybody understand everybody..... As soon you're in south.... You don't speak english... It's not from me but from an american born university teacher....
Himself told us he gave up to try to understand people from some state !!!! Cause first they don't speak ENGLISH SECOND cause they are f...... Stubborn redneck...... (By the way for me a redneck is not someone working land but a f...... idiot)
Last my dear bestfriend my experience is when a redneck is wrong or out of arguments..... His only defense is to say to an american resident first generation (who writes and speaks a literal english) "is it english ? Was it english ?.....
Anyway SAKO is one of the oldest rifle maker in the world..... If sako's rifle was crap they would have been out of the business for a long..... The fact there are more statisfied sako owners than 2 or 3 ass.... Redneck...... Pissing them....
Dear best friend from alooobama.... What don't you understand ?? 4464 posts.... Make you an expert ??? It's fun when you work in major cities people speak english and everybody understand everybody..... As soon you're in south.... You don't speak english... It's not from me but from an american born university teacher....
Himself told us he gave up to try to understand people from some state !!!! Cause first they don't speak ENGLISH SECOND cause they are f...... Stubborn redneck...... (By the way for me a redneck is not someone working land but a f...... idiot)
Last my dear bestfriend my experience is when a redneck is wrong or out of arguments..... His only defense is to say to an american resident first generation (who writes and speaks a literal english) "is it english ? Was it english ?.....
Anyway SAKO is one of the oldest rifle maker in the world..... If sako's rifle was crap they would have been out of the business for a long..... The fact there are more statisfied sako owners than 2 or 3 ass.... Redneck...... Pissing them....
Have a good day !
Please keep posting, I enjoy reading your work. Kinda like Finnegan's Wake, I like it but I don't get it.
P
Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved.
Dear best friend from alooobama.... What don't you understand ?? 4464 posts.... Make you an expert ??? It's fun when you work in major cities people speak english and everybody understand everybody..... As soon you're in south.... You don't speak english... It's not from me but from an american born university teacher....
Himself told us he gave up to try to understand people from some state !!!! Cause first they don't speak ENGLISH SECOND cause they are f...... Stubborn redneck...... (By the way for me a redneck is not someone working land but a f...... idiot)
Last my dear bestfriend my experience is when a redneck is wrong or out of arguments..... His only defense is to say to an american resident first generation (who writes and speaks a literal english) "is it english ? Was it english ?.....
Anyway SAKO is one of the oldest rifle maker in the world..... If sako's rifle was crap they would have been out of the business for a long..... The fact there are more statisfied sako owners than 2 or 3 ass.... Redneck...... Pissing them....
Have a good day !
The 85 is a French built piece of schit.
Travis
Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
I've had this issue on a couple 85s. I sold the first (270wsm). The other is a 85 Finnlight in 30-06. I called Accuflite and was told to soak the bolt in degreaser and work the extractor while flooded with degreaser. Lubed well after with Remoil. It now works so well I've been able to use the low ring mounts with no cases hitting. I think it was old sticky assembly lube causing problems in that gun.
Continued contact with Beretta will only prolong misery Shootem. Best of luck.
Have you tried this? Seems like you have your solution right here.
MNDan. Yes I tried it and it worked. I now use low Optilocks and don't hit. Suspect old lube was slowing things up in the extractor area enough to cause the problem.
Hi Travis.... sorry I'm not french.... But I can only agree with you ! if the 85 was french made it would be even worst than 2 or 3 dudes describe the 85!!!
Anyway USA build the raptor F-22 it cost 150 m$ required more than 30 hours of maintenance per flight hour and a total cost per flight hour of $44,000..... In one word he is not working..... He is more often at the "gunsmith" than shooting..... F-35 is even worst..... So Usa rely on F-15 and F-16..... French Dassault build the "RAFALE..... One of the best multirole fighter in the world..... It works, is less expensive and it fly more than he stand in the "gunsmith" shelves......
So travis..... Nobody in France can make a Mcmillan rifle or a Sako.... But they have other knowledge...... Stop to be "redneck".......
I have a Glock 10mm before buy it I read lot of bashing about glock 20 reliability on different forums full of plenty experts... Same such/kind of comments than here about the 85... As I'm stupid [bleep] I bought one..... I followed Tim Sundles advice (buffalo bore owner a real expert) I put a wolff recoil spring 22 lbs..... I shoot BB full charge and corbon I had no one problem......
It's just another sample..... Does it means I'm lucky with supposed craps' brand or just do my job and operate my gun as you should be !?
Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by UAE
Dear best friend from alooobama.... What don't you understand ?? 4464 posts.... Make you an expert ??? It's fun when you work in major cities people speak english and everybody understand everybody..... As soon you're in south.... You don't speak english... It's not from me but from an american born university teacher....
Himself told us he gave up to try to understand people from some state !!!! Cause first they don't speak ENGLISH SECOND cause they are f...... Stubborn redneck...... (By the way for me a redneck is not someone working land but a f...... idiot)
Last my dear bestfriend my experience is when a redneck is wrong or out of arguments..... His only defense is to say to an american resident first generation (who writes and speaks a literal english) "is it english ? Was it english ?.....
Anyway SAKO is one of the oldest rifle maker in the world..... If sako's rifle was crap they would have been out of the business for a long..... The fact there are more statisfied sako owners than 2 or 3 ass.... Redneck...... Pissing them....
Anyway USA build the raptor F-22 it cost 150 m$ required more than 30 hours of maintenance per flight hour and a total cost per flight hour of $44,000..... In one word he is not working..... He is more often at the "gunsmith" than shooting..... F-35 is even worst..... So Usa rely on F-15 and F-16..... French Dassault build the "RAFALE..... One of the best multirole fighter in the world..... It works, is less expensive and it fly more than he stand in the "gunsmith" shelves......
So travis..... Nobody in France can make a McMillan rifle or a Sako.... But they have other knowledge...... Stop to be "redneck".......
Yep! I am thinking Stick is having real fun with his "new" personality. I have spent quite a bit of time among Europeans and this particular jargon just not have an authentic ring to it.
drover
223 Rem, my favorite cartridge - you can't argue with truckloads of dead PD's and gophers.
24hourcampfire.com - The site where there is a problem for every solution.
That's just plain BS. Either the design, parts, or assembly are faulty. I'm running a Zeiss 1" diameter tube with standard turrets in Leupold Medium height rings. You just don't get more plain vanilla than that. The cartridge cases eject STRAIGHT UP. It wouldn't matter if I was using a 30mm tube with target turrets. Nor would it matter the ring height. If the cases eject straight up they cannot clear the scope. And the rifle is meant for scope mounting because it has internal bases and no open sights. You can give me all the company position responses you like but that does not change the facts.
I am retired from over 25 years of sales and/or service of capital medical equipment. I am very familiar with design issues and customer service. Fortunately for you the FDA does not get involved with firearms. I say all this to let you know I'm familiar with how product issues can arise and how they are handled. On this issue you have your corporate head in the sand. At this point I am not sure of my next step. But I assure you there will be a next step. There are agencies that complaints on product defects such as this can be directed to. I am not at all happy with your response.
OP, It is no doubt frustrating that you are experiencing the issues you describe with your rifle and the manufacture. I'm surprised that Beretta has taken that position on the issue. I hope you get things resolved to your satisfaction. BTW, have you read your signature line lately?
That's just plain BS. Either the design, parts, or assembly are faulty. I'm running a Zeiss 1" diameter tube with standard turrets in Leupold Medium height rings. You just don't get more plain vanilla than that. The cartridge cases eject STRAIGHT UP. It wouldn't matter if I was using a 30mm tube with target turrets. Nor would it matter the ring height. If the cases eject straight up they cannot clear the scope. And the rifle is meant for scope mounting because it has internal bases and no open sights. You can give me all the company position responses you like but that does not change the facts.
I am retired from over 25 years of sales and/or service of capital medical equipment. I am very familiar with design issues and customer service. Fortunately for you the FDA does not get involved with firearms. I say all this to let you know I'm familiar with how product issues can arise and how they are handled. On this issue you have your corporate head in the sand. At this point I am not sure of my next step. But I assure you there will be a next step. There are agencies that complaints on product defects such as this can be directed to. I am not at all happy with your response.
OP, It is no doubt frustrating that you are experiencing the issues you describe with your rifle and the manufacture. I'm surprised that Beretta has taken that position on the issue. I hope you get things resolved to your satisfaction. BTW, have you read your signature line lately?
Yep. I put it there so I'd read it every post. Sometimes it's still difficult. Plus I'm kind of an 'earthy' Christian. Tend to put things in everyday speech. I'm sure Jesus saw a little BS in his day too. Thinking he cleaned out a temple full of it one time. Thanks for the reminder.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
That's just plain BS. Either the design, parts, or assembly are faulty. I'm running a Zeiss 1" diameter tube with standard turrets in Leupold Medium height rings. You just don't get more plain vanilla than that. The cartridge cases eject STRAIGHT UP. It wouldn't matter if I was using a 30mm tube with target turrets. Nor would it matter the ring height. If the cases eject straight up they cannot clear the scope. And the rifle is meant for scope mounting because it has internal bases and no open sights. You can give me all the company position responses you like but that does not change the facts.
I am retired from over 25 years of sales and/or service of capital medical equipment. I am very familiar with design issues and customer service. Fortunately for you the FDA does not get involved with firearms. I say all this to let you know I'm familiar with how product issues can arise and how they are handled. On this issue you have your corporate head in the sand. At this point I am not sure of my next step. But I assure you there will be a next step. There are agencies that complaints on product defects such as this can be directed to. I am not at all happy with your response.
OP, It is no doubt frustrating that you are experiencing the issues you describe with your rifle and the manufacture. I'm surprised that Beretta has taken that position on the issue. I hope you get things resolved to your satisfaction. BTW, have you read your signature line lately?
Yep. I put it there so I'd read it every post. Sometimes it's still difficult. Plus I'm kind of an 'earthy' Christian. Tend to put things in everyday speech. I'm sure Jesus saw a little BS in his day too. Thinking he cleaned out a temple full of it one time. Thanks for the reminder.
Yep! I am thinking Stick is having real fun with his "new" personality. I have spent quite a bit of time among Europeans and this particular jargon just not have an authentic ring to it.
drover
Actually, this version is easier to decipher than some of the others.
Guys..... I have better to do..... I'm leaving for hunting over two weeks..... I'm not speaking about p.dog or turkey hunting but real..... I mean real man hunting for men with big sticks... Sh..... I start to speak like some expert here....
As I'm a [bleep] stupid foreigner living here I go in the field with one of my sako 338, and my glock (a girly toy if you listen some expertssssss) hope i won't have to sit on the 85 inch bolt STICK in front of a redneck grizzzz..... I leave expert together dreaming about real hunting....
Relax..... We learn everyday..... You should contact directly Sako in finn.... By the way I ordered some springs just to make a try.....
UAE, Actually, I need to back pedal a bit. At first glance, your site is confusing but after scrolling it, (wouldn't allow me yesterday) it actually turns out some decent photos and blog posts. My apologies.
Hello, No big deal.... In my job I learn everyday and I just got my license.... So I'm not anymore a greenhorn but not yet an expert.... But I know really a lot in firearms....
Hm i think this thread turn "hot" cause some here, are just bashers..... They think they are expert cause they post thousands...... But sorry an expert speaks few... I'm not claiming I'm an expert.......but Claim that SAKO rifle are p... Of c.... Is as ridiculous as saying bears are nice teddies...... Again i have nothing against south redneck some of my friend are from and they are very good buddies.... But I have trouble with narrow minded, stubborn people.
Wish you to relax look at LRcampos fix and send the bill to beretta or contact SAKO in Finn
I spent some time talking to the Beretta USA goobs at the 2008 NRA Convention, and left thinking they were the most arrogant azzholes on the planet, who were clueless besides.
So far, I've seen nothing to change my mind, either, and I'm pretty open-minded about such things.
Beretta USA has a horrible rep for CS, and from what I can gather, always has had that rep.
I'll never own a Sako sold by them, period. One of the older ones, sure, I'd jump all over one, but not one of them sold by those clowns. It seems to be a Beretta USA thing, they have a marvelous rep in other parts of the world, but they don't seem to "get" the US market worth a damn.
You can roll a turd in peanuts, dip it in chocolate, and it still ain't no damn Baby Ruth.
So according to Beretta it isn't a design fault or a parts fault or an assembly fault. It is the shooter's fault for mounting a scope with turrets. I'm accustomed to people lying but it really grinds my gut when they know it's a lie and know that I know it's a lie but ask me to believe it anyway. Not sure of the next step. Have other issues ongoing that require my attention. Bad time to deal with crap like that. I'm steaming.
Sounds like a design or assembly or other manufacturing problem to me.
For service, I still think Ruger is the one to beat.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
What you say about beretta USA is 200% right..... I met them at the shot show....
You'right too about Europe. I know some beretta people in Europe and they are just the opposite of USA...
I know beretta executive management (CEO) in usa is an ex-black and decker..... I told to the sales executive manager he was selling sako rifle as hardware.... I said that to him before to learn he was an ex- black and decker boy too..... It's look like same story than when Leupold recruited a CEO from apparel business.... 10 years of s......
Now I met sako people too and they are just great pro with a real knowledge....claim Sako 85 is a design flaw.. Is just stupid & excessive ..... Maybe a spring is weak sometimes and need to be replaced.... It's like claim ruger are not accurate or glock not reliable......
UAE you really don't know what you're talking about. This is not just one person having a problem with a Sako. So far you got the good ones. Keep buying 85M Sakos and you'll get a few that eject the brass into the bottom of your scope. No doubt about it. The extractor/ejector design is flawed. When the extractor hooks the cartridge case rim it does so with the whole surface of the extractor hook. But when the ejector hits the bottom of the cartridge case head, the case rotates upward and the extractor hook then is in contact with the case rim only with the bottom of the hook. The extractor does not rotate with the cartridge case when the ejector forces the case to point upward. With the extractor hook contacting the case rim with only the lower edge point there are bound to be problems. Without sufficient spring pressure to force this lower point of the extractor hook into the surface of the case rim and keep it there the case will eject upward more so than outward. That is what causes the cartridge cases to hit the scope tube. So far in your posts you're only running your big mouth about "rednecks" and "southerners" that are either stupid, ignorant or both along with bathing in your all perfect knowledge that Sakos always work. Fact is you have pretty much cornered the market on stupid and ignorant on this thread. Do yourself a favor and start your own thread talking about something you actually understand. Good luck with your Sakos but know the 85 has a REAL and not imagined problem. And have a truly blessed day.
Last edited by shootem; 09/13/14. Reason: excess criticism
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Well said Shootem. What UAE seems to forget is that the Sako 85 is a PREMIUM product (price wise anyway). And one does not expect these sort of problems from a manufacturer like Sako.
I have always liked Sakos - but there is no way I will buy another 85. I sold mine and bought a Tikka T3!
Maybe a new action from Sako is already in the pipeline....... And hopefully this time it's right.
I had the same problem with a a 85 grey wolf in .30-06, Leupold low rings, Leupold vx3-3.5-10x40 mm. This was a couple years ago. My Spent brass would hit bottom of scope and fall back in. Yes the bottom of my scope had brass marks on it! My gun shop sent that rifle back in, sako sent another brand new rifle and it did the same thing this time in sako low rings. The swap out took about a month. Sakos fix for me was to put my 40 mm scope in the high or extra high rings. My local gun shop got sako to refund me my money. Seems its pretty jormal for the long action sakos, from what i found on the net. I was pizzed they wanted me to buy another set of rings and mount that dam scope like that, bunch of azz clowns.
What is the measured height from the firing pin at the chamber to the tube center of the scope?
Have you the skill to remove the extractor, spring and plunger?
Did you clean, inspect and lube these parts?
Did you prove or disprove your extractor claw was within spec having no defects at the claw?
Did you prove or disprove the spring was weak, or there was a defect such as machining burr or excessive old assembly lube causing the parts to be sluggish and hang?
If you determined the spring was insufficient, did you attempt to replace it with a stronger Gre-Tan?
So far, those who have experienced a perceived high ejection, and have taken those steps, have either completely corrected such ejection or have made marked improvements so that rifle is reliable. Worst case scenario for those, would be under hard forced ejection, one may see damage to case neck from hitting turret outside of chamber, but casing would eject. For those reloading, don't hard eject while shooting groups and save that for follow up shots while hunting.
Otherwise, as stated earlier, mine has a measured height of 1.55" and it properly clears. Again, mine was disassembled, cleaned, inspected and lubed. I did find the spring tension to be correct, in fact it was text book correct for the function of the claw extractor. If it were not correct out of the box, I see no reason why it could not be corrected. If you like the rifle in all aspects, except for you are experiencing straight up ejection, which is without a doubt, way out of spec. Then I would suggest getting it fixed and live happily with your rifle. I would care less about Beretta USA, as everything discussed so far as a correction can be done for little to no money spent. If you do not care about the rifle, and you just care to vent, then so be it, but at least make an effort for a correction. The time you've spent typing, you could have removed the parts and determined what is off to cause a straight up ejection. For that matter, you may even be experiencing too low an ejection with the case bouncing off the rail causing it to go straight up.
You can search videos and find scores upon scores of functioning M size action 85s chambered in long action having zero function issues. The few having issues are spotty at best, and often are the same few being retold. The vast overwhelming majority run well. You can search any production rifle for ejection issues and find complaints on every single last one. If it doesn't work for you, then get something else. If it does work for you and you'd like to work through your kink, then put some effort in that direction and less time spinning wheels to create smoke and noise.
A Winchester M70EW has a manufacturer price of $1200 vs. a Sako Finnlight having a manufacturer price of $1500. If the Sako better fits you and it works, it may very well be worth the additional $300, especially if you need to put work and parts into the factory Winchester. But, if it doesn't work for you, then there are many other options, just like boots and backpacks.
I've come to the conclusion that you are not trying to work through any kinks to vet your rifle, but you are merely venting because you've run into something you either did not expect, or you have some sort of opinion that a Sako rifle does not need to be vetted and that you should be able to run non-Sako parts to save money and not run into a hitch. You further expect an importer to fall to their knees and agree with you in writing over your complaints of a second hand used rifle. I'd forget them, and take the matter in your hands and attempt the corrections that have shown success. Very simple, few dollars spent. If they do not work for you, then the only avenue in which you are sort of screwed, is you bought a used rifle that is previously transferred. If you had purchased the rifle new, likely you could have had your money refunded and walked away.
Several are attempting to help you out, while others are just bitching a moaning. I may have a need to be in North Carolina next month. I will know shortly. If so, I can offer to bring my own tools and some spare springs, along with solvents and lube. Maybe we can coordinate a meet and we can make a valid attempt to identify the problem and make a correction. However, I do not have any spare extractors at this time, so if that is the issue, I would not have that part on hand to replace.
I'll send you a PM by mid-next week and let you know if I will be in your state. You can then decide if you're interested.
Best
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
What is the measured height from the firing pin at the chamber to the tube center of the scope?
Have you the skill to remove the extractor, spring and plunger?
Did you clean, inspect and lube these parts?
Did you prove or disprove your extractor claw was within spec having no defects at the claw?
Did you prove or disprove the spring was weak, or there was a defect such as machining burr or excessive old assembly lube causing the parts to be sluggish and hang?
If you determined the spring was insufficient, did you attempt to replace it with a stronger Gre-Tan?
So far, those who have experienced a perceived high ejection, and have taken those steps, have either completely corrected such ejection or have made marked improvements so that rifle is reliable. Worst case scenario for those, would be under hard forced ejection, one may see damage to case neck from hitting turret outside of chamber, but casing would eject. For those reloading, don't hard eject while shooting groups and save that for follow up shots while hunting.
Otherwise, as stated earlier, mine has a measured height of 1.55" and it properly clears. Again, mine was disassembled, cleaned, inspected and lubed. I did find the spring tension to be correct, in fact it was text book correct for the function of the claw extractor. If it were not correct out of the box, I see no reason why it could not be corrected. If you like the rifle in all aspects, except for you are experiencing straight up ejection, which is without a doubt, way out of spec. Then I would suggest getting it fixed and live happily with your rifle. I would care less about Beretta USA, as everything discussed so far as a correction can be done for little to no money spent. If you do not care about the rifle, and you just care to vent, then so be it, but at least make an effort for a correction. The time you've spent typing, you could have removed the parts and determined what is off to cause a straight up ejection. For that matter, you may even be experiencing too low an ejection with the case bouncing off the rail causing it to go straight up.
You can search videos and find scores upon scores of functioning M size action 85s chambered in long action having zero function issues. The few having issues are spotty at best, and often are the same few being retold. The vast overwhelming majority run well. You can search any production rifle for ejection issues and find complaints on every single last one. If it doesn't work for you, then get something else. If it does work for you and you'd like to work through your kink, then put some effort in that direction and less time spinning wheels to create smoke and noise.
A Winchester M70EW has a manufacturer price of $1200 vs. a Sako Finnlight having a manufacturer price of $1500. If the Sako better fits you and it works, it may very well be worth the additional $300, especially if you need to put work and parts into the factory Winchester. But, if it doesn't work for you, then there are many other options, just like boots and backpacks.
I've come to the conclusion that you are not trying to work through any kinks to vet your rifle, but you are merely venting because you've run into something you either did not expect, or you have some sort of opinion that a Sako rifle does not need to be vetted and that you should be able to run non-Sako parts to save money and not run into a hitch. You further expect an importer to fall to their knees and agree with you in writing over your complaints of a second hand used rifle. I'd forget them, and take the matter in your hands and attempt the corrections that have shown success. Very simple, few dollars spent. If they do not work for you, then the only avenue in which you are sort of screwed, is you bought a used rifle that is previously transferred. If you had purchased the rifle new, likely you could have had your money refunded and walked away.
Several are attempting to help you out, while others are just bitching a moaning. I may have a need to be in North Carolina next month. I will know shortly. If so, I can offer to bring my own tools and some spare springs, along with solvents and lube. Maybe we can coordinate a meet and we can make a valid attempt to identify the problem and make a correction. However, I do not have any spare extractors at this time, so if that is the issue, I would not have that part on hand to replace.
I'll send you a PM by mid-next week and let you know if I will be in your state. You can then decide if you're interested.
Best
So tell me again, who is it venting?? Sounds like you have some hurt feelings over Sako's design fault being outed.
First of all this is not a second hand used rifle. I bought it new in the box. It is still unfired. And I made note of this previously.
I disassembled the bolt early on and the interior is clean. The extractor is smooth moving and there is smooth movement of the extractor plunger.
I don't really care what the height from the firing pin hole to the center of the scope tube is. That's a totally irrelevant number. The scope is mounted in medium height Leupold rings using the integral bases and the objective clears the barrel easily. The Zeiss HD5 scope has standard Hunter Turrets. I removed the scope today and as I knew already the brass is not hitting the turrets. It's hitting the turret housing and leaving brass marks. Now really, name for me another production bolt action rifle that has consistent problems over multiple rifles and multiple users, failing to eject brass with such a simple setup.................waiting.
As far as "running non Sako parts to save money" I have no idea what you're talking about and doubt seriously that you do. The only non Sako parts on the rifle are the sling swivels, sling, scope and rings. None of these items, including the rings, are causing the ejection problems. Plain vanilla set up. And the reason for using Leupold rings instead of Sako is bulk and weight, same reason I put them on a Ruger 77. Amazingly the Ruger still ejects empty brass correctly, every time.
I could take the remainder of your comments and questions and filet them as well but it would not change the most importand facts. And those facts are: 1)Sako has a design flaw in the 85M 2)Sako/Beretta refuses to admit it:
Quote
Occasionally, we receive customer complaints regarding Sako 85 rifles ejecting spent cases that either strike the scope or strike the scope turret and fall back inside the action of the rifle. This situation is predominately caused by both the scope mounts and type of scope (particularly scopes with extended turrets) installed on the rifle. A secondary consideration is how rigorously the bolt is operated by the user.
Occasionally?? Scope mounts?? How rigorously bolt is operated???(If it's operated "rigorously" enough to rattle the case around in the ejection port I believe that qualifies.) 3)Sako/Beretta lay the problem on the buyer:
Quote
Beretta will not consider rifles that exhibit the condition above to be a warranty issue. Provided that the rifle fully extracts and ejects the spent casing, the rifle will be considered functional and serviceable. Sako cannot anticipate every possible scope mounting configuration when designing their rifles. Since the selection and installation of the scope and mounts are determined by the owner, it is the owner�s responsibility to ensure that the system will not interfere with the operation of the rifle."
A reputable rifle manufacturer would not make such statements. Designing your rifle to function with a 1" scope tube, medium rings and standard turrets should be a given. 4)Sako/Beretta reject your and others' claim of a spring fix:
Quote
Regarding your specific inquiry, there is no "fix" for this condition as the ejector is not adjustable in this rifle. The comments that you have read regarding "extractor spring pressure" are not valid. The spring pressure does not affect the ejection trajectory of the casing. The bottom line is if the rifle extracts and ejects the casing, it is considered functional.
They just called you and several others liars. According to them ya'll not only don't know what you're talking about, you lied to make it seem you did. They're wrong of course, but the stronger spring just makes the system do something it doesn't want to do; eject the case outward. More later. 5)Sako/Beretta follow up this complete denial of liability and responsibility by suggesting further unwarranted, illogical, inappropriate and irrelevant actions be taken by the consumer:
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Our suggestion would be to experiment with different scope mounts and/or type of scope to determine what will work best on your rifle.
Yeah right. Never mind what I'm using is about as average as a C grade in high school. I have 8 or 9 more sets sitting around, guess I'll just have to go thru them all a few times to discover that doesn't work either. 6)It is not the responsibility of the consumer to make this product function properly with normal and anticipated optical components. That is the responsibility of the manufacturer. Sako/Beretta failed. That is not my fault. 7)What I feel to be the both the most important and the most disturbing fact is this. Sako/Beretta continue to market and sell a product they well know has a hard fault.
This afternoon I spent quite a bit of time with the rifle. What I found totally supports the explanation of the problem I gave a couple of posts back. The design can be made to work as is evidenced by both the lack of OBVIOUS problems in some and by the home repair of others. However the design works with great resistance and will not do so at all in some cases.
As far as your offer of assistance goes I appreciate the gesture but I now understand how the system is intended to work and why it does not. I don't know yet if I am willing to make the rifle work. To send it back to Sako/Beretta Customer Service would be an exercise in futility. Might as well argue with a Democrat about high taxes with an equal chance of success. But to let them off the hook is wrong. I loathe companies that refuse to accept responsibility for obvious errors. And there is no doubt about this being an obvious error in design. Tired of this issue for now but later I'll post other observations I made today and what I learned from them. Although I had one momentary surprise, what I learned only supported what I already knew. Once you get down close and work with it back and forth, up and down, inside and out the quirks become obvious. Every time it works, it almost didn't.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Several are attempting to help you out, while others are just bitching a moaning. I may have a need to be in North Carolina next month. I will know shortly. If so, I can offer to bring my own tools and some spare springs, along with solvents and lube. Maybe we can coordinate a meet and we can make a valid attempt to identify the problem and make a correction. However, I do not have any spare extractors at this time, so if that is the issue, I would not have that part on hand to replace.
I'll send you a PM by mid-next week and let you know if I will be in your state. You can then decide if you're interested.
Best
So tell me again, who is it venting?? Sounds like you have some hurt feelings over Sako's design fault being outed.
First of all this is not a second hand used rifle. I bought it new in the box. It is still unfired. And I made note of this previously.
I disassembled the bolt early on and the interior is clean.
G'night all.
Your memory is short. YOU wrote me asking for my help on this particular rifle, because you were unable to detail strip the bolt and you were unable to deduce the cause of your issue. This was not "early on" back in the beginning, but was recent. If you would take a step back and take a deep breath, I�d suggest you re-read my replies to you, as I did not belittle you and I was not argumentative. I was merely responding in an attempt to help you out.
To refresh your memory:
#9137919 (08/29) - You were unable to detail strip the bolt and could not figure out your problem, so you wrote me for help.
#9140244 (08/30) - I replied giving instruction on how to detail strip the bolt and to test for proper tension and to identify a defect in either the spring or the extractor.
#9157769 (09/06) - I noticed you continued your complaint over onto a new thread, so I wrote a follow up to ask if you were able to follow the instructions and detail strip the bolt to identify the problem. I asked if you tried the Gre-Tan, and gave you both gunsmith and non-gunsmith options to make a correction.
#9164421 (09/09) - You replied that you were too busy with pressing issues involving illness of a family member, and that time was not available to take it apart to inspect.
#9164477 (09/09) - I wrote back to express my sympathy, and I gave you encouragement to make the effort to detail strip the bolt, inspect and deduce the defect, and to make a correction, once the smoke cleared with the pressing medical issues.
#9173967 (09/12) - You had yet to make an effort to detail strip the bolt, inspect, deduce, and attempt any of the corrections, yet you were still complaining.
#9175407 (09/13) - I felt sorry for you because of your family illness, and decided that I would fix the rifle for you and show you how it was done, being you were unable to do so. So I had reason to ask those questions to know exactly what you had done at that point, and to know what pieces and parts I�d need to bring. As example, I asked about a measured scope height in relation to mine, to determine if your scope was actually mounted lower. If your mounts were lower, I would bring a scope pre-mounted in optilock ringmounts to test. The only part I could not cover was a spare extractor, if it was determined yours was bad.
So it is now mid-week, and as promised, I came back to see if you answered the questions, and I read your above diatribe????
Well, all I have to say, You are quite a character, who is weaving quite a web of conflicting claims.
For the record, in the event you place the rifle for sale in the classifieds. You did not purchase this rifle new and you are not the original owner. An ATF trace will prove such, as this rifle appears sold two or three times over, with your purchase being made from a previous owner. If you had indeed purchased the rifle new and you were the original transferee, you�d likely be eligible for a refund.
I am sorry you mistook my attempts to assist you negatively, and I do wish your ill relative well.
Best of Luck
Last edited by GaryVA; 09/17/14.
�I've never met a genius. A genius to me is someone who does well at something he hates. Anybody can do well at something he loves -- it's just a question of finding the subject.�
Several are attempting to help you out, while others are just bitching a moaning. I may have a need to be in North Carolina next month. I will know shortly. If so, I can offer to bring my own tools and some spare springs, along with solvents and lube. Maybe we can coordinate a meet and we can make a valid attempt to identify the problem and make a correction. However, I do not have any spare extractors at this time, so if that is the issue, I would not have that part on hand to replace.
I'll send you a PM by mid-next week and let you know if I will be in your state. You can then decide if you're interested.
Best
So tell me again, who is it venting?? Sounds like you have some hurt feelings over Sako's design fault being outed.
First of all this is not a second hand used rifle. I bought it new in the box. It is still unfired. And I made note of this previously.
I disassembled the bolt early on and the interior is clean.
G'night all.
Your memory is short. YOU wrote me asking for my help on this particular rifle, because you were unable to detail strip the bolt and you were unable to deduce the cause of your issue. This was not "early on" back in the beginning, but was recent. If you would take a step back and take a deep breath, I�d suggest you re-read my replies to you, as I did not belittle you and I was not argumentative. I was merely responding in an attempt to help you out.
To refresh your memory:
#9137919 (08/29) - You were unable to detail strip the bolt and could not figure out your problem, so you wrote me for help.
#9140244 (08/30) - I replied giving instruction on how to detail strip the bolt and to test for proper tension and to identify a defect in either the spring or the extractor.
#9157769 (09/06) - I noticed you continued your complaint over onto a new thread, so I wrote a follow up to ask if you were able to follow the instructions and detail strip the bolt to identify the problem. I asked if you tried the Gre-Tan, and gave you both gunsmith and non-gunsmith options to make a correction.
#9164421 (09/09) - You replied that you were too busy with pressing issues involving illness of a family member, and that time was not available to take it apart to inspect.
#9164477 (09/09) - I wrote back to express my sympathy, and I gave you encouragement to make the effort to detail strip the bolt, inspect and deduce the defect, and to make a correction, once the smoke cleared with the pressing medical issues.
#9173967 (09/12) You had yet to make an effort to detail strip the bolt, inspect, deduce, and attempt any of the corrections, yet you were still complaining. I felt sorry for you because of your family illness, and decided that I would fix the rifle for you and show you how it was done, being you were unable to do so. So I had reason to ask those questions to know exactly what you had done at that point, and to know what pieces and parts I�d need to bring. As example, I asked about a measured scope height in relation to mine, to determine if your scope was actually mounted lower. If your mounts were lower, I would bring a scope pre-mounted in optilock ringmounts to test. The only part I could not cover was a spare extractor, if it was determined yours was bad.
So it is now mid-week, and as promised, I came back to see if you answered the questions, and I read your above diatribe????
Well, all I have to say, You are quite a character, who is weaving quite a web of conflicting claims.
For the record, in the event you place the rifle for sale in the classifieds. You did not purchase this rifle new and you are not the original owner. An ATF trace will prove such, as this rifle appears sold two or three times over, with your purchase being made from a previous owner. If you had indeed purchased the rifle new and you were the original transferee, you�d likely be eligible for a refund.
I am sorry you mistook my attempts to assist you negatively, and I do wish your ill relative well.
Best of Luck
OH BOY, THAT is the best get [bleep] I have ever seen!
Just back here briefly to clarify my earlier comments. This will be much more brief than I first intended. As others with this problem seem to be, I'm just getting really tired of the rifle and dealing with Beretta/Sako.
First of all the ejector/ejector design. As we all know the extractor serves not only to pull a cartridge case from the chamber but also to hold the case in position for the ejector to do it's work. One doesn't work well without the other. I looked at bolt rifles in my safe to get a direct comparison to the 6 o'clock positioning of the Sako blade and it's 10 o'clock position of the extractor. The following are the clock face positions of Extractor/Ejector in some other rifles:
A-Bolt.... 10/4 Rem Mod 7...9/4 Ruger 77 (pushfeed)...8 to 10/5 (extractor covers a lot of case rim) Mk X mauser...8 to 10/3 Sako...10/6
All ejector positions have one thing in common except for the Sako. Each is positioned to push a cartridge case OUTWARD thru the ejection port except the Sako which is designed to push the case UPWARD. The first example of a firearm I could think of that uses this ejector position is the Winchester lever action. With the Model 94 and others Winchester proved this would work as designed to push the case in an upward motion. Sako has confirmed this finding. Even though the push feed Ruger uses a low 5 o'clock ejector position, direction of travel is still outward partially because it at least pushes somewhat in an outward direction and also because of the huge extractor blade that is arced to follow the curve of the groove and, at least on my rifle, holds the case rim against the bolt face pretty well until the case flips outward.
The extractor positon is consistent in all the rifles I checked, beint in the 8 to 10 o'clock range. And all seem to work very well in holding the case in position for ejection except the Sako 85M when the case neck bumps the bottom of a scope tube or turrets.
With my Sako in a maintenance cradle I pulled the scope to check direction of ejection without interference fully expecting the empty case to fly straight up in the air. It didn't. Instead it was ejected to the rear and outward. Interesting. Tried it a half dozen times or so with the same result. Placed the scope back on the bottom rings and the case hit the tube and bounced back down. Long story short, the case is made to eject upward. If there is no obstacle (scope) above it, the neck of the case simply arcs upward and backward and exits the ejection port. By holding a finger at the scope tube position while ejecting I was able to see what was happening. When the case is pushed upward the extractor holds the rim by the lower point of the extractor blade ONLY. If there is no scope in the way all works well. However if the scope is bumped by the case neck, the ejector loses it's small grip on the case rim and the case simply drops off the bottom of the bolt face.
That being said and being true, it seems that additional pressure on the extractor hook/case rim connection seems to prevent this ejection of the case head downward. By holding pressure against the extractor and pushing it inward toward the case, then allowing the case neck to strike the scope tube, the case neck seems to be able to roll off the obstruction and out the ejection. However, the case still stands upward and strikes the scope which is unacceptable. Hence my earlier comment that "every time it works it almost didn't".
Most likely this rifle can be made to work by replacing the extractor spring with a stronger one as several have suggested, even though Beretta CS says this isn't a fix because there's no problem. There may be an issue with the extractor hook itself, but I have no other to compare. I will be contacting Sako directly and speaking by phone with Beretta to see if I can get this issue resolved. By resolved I mean I want the money back I paid for the rifle. If that fails I will file a Consumer Complaint.
In he meanwhile if someone wants to do the spring fix it's all yours. Send me $1250 and an FFL copy and it'll be out the door to you with my best wishes. Still unfired with paperwork and original box. And it's headed to the Classifieds now.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
It was ironical..... But as a good [bleep]..... You think quickly weird.... If you are rainbow.... A long action action 85 jamming would please you.....
1) when I use redneck term as I explained before it's not to speak about people from southerner or farmer..... I use for people like you with a narrow mind a very high opinion of themselves and with erection trouble and getting older who make them what you're an old assh.....
2) you're typically a retired guy with no real occupation... With not anymore clients or subaltern to [bleep] or screw up.... Moreover you have erection trouble or ejection I have no time to figure out..... But anyway you're so bored in your life than now you focus on one problem which is not one in fact..... It's your only daily occupation...
3) you seem have a great opinion about your knowledge... And your past career..... Me I'm a poor Alaskan redneck for three years now....
4) unfortunately I'm 36 years young not old..... No ejection/erection trouble with all my sako 85 and I'm busy.... So I'm a happy man....
5) unfortunately for you the alaskan redneck who cooks salmon has a university degree of machining engineering, a bachelor of sales and merchandising and yes its not yet finish a Master of business ! So I'n not more stupid than the average joe.......I have been in sales business for years before to become an Alaskan redneck....
6) yes I have more knowledge than you cause quite few of my friends run famous firearms brand or distribute american brand in Europe.... I have been for over 20 years among real firearms designer, builder or manufacturer every weeks.. Sorry for you......But I have a better overview than you....
7) you are so stubborn than you don't listen anybodies here..... Your [bleep] arguments and opinion are relayed by only 2 or 3 assh... Like you here.... Are you feeling better ?! In fact the FACT is there are thousands sako 85 users who have no one problem or complain and enjoy there sako..... Thousands is more than 2 or 3 forum experts.....
8) I use my firearms on regular basis at least carry them in the field daily.... so yes.... I think I have more feedback than you....
9) you say sako 85 action is a design flaw.... The design flaw is in your head.... Maybe your rifle has an ejection trouble but you have at least two or three way to fix it.... But you don't want try them....
So sell your sako 85 for 1$ if your not happy... Someone could fix is problem for 10 dollars Or as I already told you sit your dirty ass... On the bolt.... The pain will be as good as your crisis.... By the way rainbow guys.... Have this kind of hysterical crisis....
10) even if i have not a great opinion of beretta people in USA, now I definitely agree with them....
11) your knowledge is so wide than you don't even knows about talley scope rifle mount or the sako optilock rings (not the one witH the bulky base) Sako Optilock Blue 75/85 30mm X-Low Rings S1701904
Anyway I lost enough time in this sterile thread....
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