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Got a a CZ550 in 416 Rigby and really like the rifle and quality, but the twist is 1:16.5. I have run the numbers and according to length, it should barely stabilize the 400 TSX I am shooting. I don't want the bullet to drift off in some wierd direction on impact because of minimal stabilization. Just bought some 400 grain Partitions and 410 Woodleigh solids to try, which should stabilize well.
For those who have shot game with this caliber, what would you use?
Last edited by DesertMuleDeer; 09/06/14.
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350 TSX has many fans. Stick with tried and true 410 Woodleighs/400 grain RHINO/Swift/etc. otherwise.
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I used 400gr Swift A-Frames. My PH specifically did not want TSX because we were hunting cape buffalo in herds and he did not want a pass through to injure a non-target animal.
My rifle shoots Partitions somewhat better than A-Frames and that is what I will probably use if I hunt buff again.
405wcf
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CZ makes a really nice rifle, not sure why they don't make twist a little faster in 416.
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CZ makes a really nice rifle, not sure why they don't make twist a little faster in 416. Simply because the 16 twist was the standard with the.416 caliber. Weatherby went with a 14 twist and I have owned both. In retrospect, the 16 was the more accurate though I never went over 410 grain Woodleighs but shot a bucket load of lighter weights in my rifles.
When truth is ignored, it does not change an untruth from remaining a lie.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Not sure what you plan on hunting but there is an azzload of folks killing big critters with that rifle and all manner of slugs. Have you shot it with your desired bullet? If you have not, well, you know...
Conduct is the best proof of character.
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400 grain Barnes TSXs seem to shoot OK based on accuracy, but I am a little worried if shooting something big. I ran the combo through a twist calculator and with 1.6" long copper bullet, a 1:16.6 twist is the slowest required. The CZ is 1:16.5. Not sure a big animal is the place to have a bullet that is minimally stabilized, but somebody more experienced with such things maybe can weigh in.
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Campfire Kahuna
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DesertMuleDeer,
What everybody else said, especially about shooting through one buffalo and possibly wounding another.
Plus the fact that, in my experience, the theory that marginal bullet stabilization has much if anything to do with what happens AFTER a bullet expands is pretty much BS. At that point all bullets become less stable, and how well they track and resist tumbling has more to so with the length of the shank and diameter of the "mushroom" than twist rate.
A bullet like a TSX with a relatively small mushroom area compared to the shank will tend to be more stable than a bullet that expands very widely and leaves little shank. But they ALL can tumble, depending on what they hit--and the angle they hit it.
Yeah, the 400 TSX's stability is "marginal" in a 16.5 twist, but it's on the right side of the margin. But as somebody else mentioned, why not use the 350 TSX? Generally TSX's (and other monolithics) are more effective on game when lighter bullets are shot at higher velocities. The exception would be when shooting at longer ranges, but that's not a factor here.
I can also assure you, from personal experience, that a 400-grain Nosler Partition or Trophy Bonded works fine from a .416 Rigby CZ.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Thank you. Good info. I have have much to learn about buffalo hunting in that I have yet to hunt or even see a cape buffalo in the wild, though I did see some fresh cow patties in thick brush while chasing gemsbok. Later confirmed those were out of a buffalo.
Looks like I have 200 400-grain TSXs to shoot up and there may be better choices for buffalo for reasons I hadn't thought about among them, "over penetration."
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Swap 'em out. That's over a hundred dollars and a lot of cleaning, just to use them up.
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DMD,
Yep, this is one place where TSX's can "way over-penetrate"!
In fact, even some lead-cored 400-grain .416's will often exit buffalo on broadside rib shots.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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DMD:
Since you are handloading, consider the Northfork 400 grain soft in .416. It is very accurate in my Dakota 76 African .416 Rigby and performs well on cape buff. Mine were loaded by Superior, for those that don't load their own.
I have also killed several buff with 400 grain Swift A-Frames in .416. They also performed well and none exited. As loaded by Norma, they were consistently under an inch @ 100 yards in my Dakota. They also shot to the same point of aim as the 400 grain Barnes solids loaded by Norma. Unfortunately, Norma no longer produces that load, but again, Superior and Safari Arms will load them.
While the Nosler Partition is an excellent bullet for big cats (it performed extremely well for me on a leopard hunt in 2012), I do not consider it a good choice for cape buff. I have shot several species of plains game with the Partition (the largest being a big Kudu and a large Waterbuck), and based on the way the bullets looked afterwards, it only confirmed in my mind that there are much better choices out there for buff. It's your money, your safari and your life. My advice, based on personal experience, is to stay with a tried and true premium bonded soft of 400 grains for your buff. The only exception to that advice is the Woodleigh Weldcore. Again, an excellent cat and plains game bullet, but despite it's bonded construction, perhaps a bit too "soft" for buff.
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400gr tsx shoot very well out of cz 550 416 rigby I'm using 98.0gr of h4350.
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.
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400gr tsx shoot very well out of cz 550 416 rigby I'm using 98.0gr of h4350. I don't dispute that they do. In fact, my Dakota African shoots the 400 grain TSX as loaded both by Federal and Barnes very well. I would not hesitate to use the TSX on buff personally. However, the OP said that his PH did not want him to bring the TSX on the safari because of his concerns that they may exit when shooting an animal in a herd and wound another one. That's why I discussed softs that were apparently what his PH wanted him to use.
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DMD:
Since you are handloading, consider the Northfork 400 grain soft in .416. It is very accurate in my Dakota 76 African .416 Rigby and performs well on cape buff. Mine were loaded by Superior, for those that don't load their own.
I have also killed several buff with 400 grain Swift A-Frames in .416. They also performed well and none exited. As loaded by Norma, they were consistently under an inch @ 100 yards in my Dakota. They also shot to the same point of aim as the 400 grain Barnes solids loaded by Norma. Unfortunately, Norma no longer produces that load, but again, Superior and Safari Arms will load them.
While the Nosler Partition is an excellent bullet for big cats (it performed extremely well for me on a leopard hunt in 2012), I do not consider it a good choice for cape buff. I have shot several species of plains game with the Partition (the largest being a big Kudu and a large Waterbuck), and based on the way the bullets looked afterwards, it only confirmed in my mind that there are much better choices out there for buff. It's your money, your safari and your life. My advice, based on personal experience, is to stay with a tried and true premium bonded soft of 400 grains for your buff. The only exception to that advice is the Woodleigh Weldcore. Again, an excellent cat and plains game bullet, but despite it's bonded construction, perhaps a bit too "soft" for buff.
Thanks. I have considered North Forks, but they are expensive and I wonder if certain less expensive options may be as good. Regarding Swifts, I have never used them because I have always been concerned with their design. It seems to me the bonded front core puts much stress on the "partition" area of the Swift as evidenced by the bulge they get in the middle once expanded. In fact I have seen pictures of a couple that failed in that area. No personal experience with Swifts so this is all just a guess on my part, but is the reason I have always preferred the Nosler, which lose a little weight but do damage in the process and penetrate about as well as anything I have found save Barnes. I know little about bullets for animals bigger than elk, though. What concerned you about the look of the fired Partitions?
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DMD:
First, bullets will be the least expensive part of your safari. Don't fret the cost of the bullets.
Second, the Partitions virtually came apart. I shot a Kudu with one in .338 and the recovered projectile look like a nickel. OK on a ~700 lb. kudu, unacceptable on a buff.
Third, ANY bullet can fail. Personally, I have had good performance from A-Frames out of my .416 on buff and many PH's recommend them for buff. The "bulge" you describe is normal for an A-Frame. I have had only one A-frame come apart and that was a 200 grain .30 cal bullet that struck the spine of a reedbuck in a "texas heart shot" situation. I have killed several cape buff with A-Frames and they worked well. The A-Frame, IMO, is too "tough" a bullet for cats. I shot a big male lion in 2011 with an A-Frame and the bullet just zipped through with no expansion. The followup, in the dark, was more fun than I care to have. A Partition would have been a much better choice for the lion.
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Thank you, Win70!
Last edited by DesertMuleDeer; 09/09/14.
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DMD,
I shot my only Cape buffalo with 400 gr. Swift A-Frames in 0.423" at about 2400 fps. Though not quite exactly the 0.416" bullets you plan to use, they're close enough to be comparable. At a bit over 50 yds. 2 bullets entered frontally in the chest and penetrated to the abdominal cavity. More than 3 feet of penetration and both lethal shots.
I've shot several other animals with these Swift A-Frames and have no doubt about their capabilities or lethality.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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I really don't see you having a problem with the extra .5" in twist rate, even with the TSX. I had a standard CZ 550 in 416 Rigby with the same twist as yours, it had no trouble stabilising Woodleigh 450gr Softs or Solids, don't remember if they were softs or solids. Now I have a re-barreled 550 in 416 Rigby with a 1:15" twist, a little fast in my opinion, but that's all I could get for it. I use the Woodleigh 410gr RNSP for everything in mine, not a fan of solids, except for elephant, but that's outta my price range anyway.  Cheers. 
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Got a a CZ550 in 416 Rigby and really like the rifle and quality, but the twist is 1:16.5. I have run the numbers and according to length, it should barely stabilize the 400 TSX I am shooting. I don't want the bullet to drift off in some wierd direction on impact because of minimal stabilization. Just bought some 400 grain Partitions and 410 Woodleigh solids to try, which should stabilize well.
For those who have shot game with this caliber, what would you use? A 1 in 12 would be perfect for the 400 grain TSX as well as any other bullet. A marginally stabile bullet can do squirrelly things at impact sometimes. The 350 TSX would work well with your present twist rate.
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