Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Snake Medicine..

Almost spepped on this badboy...2" Model 34 Smith came out of the holster asap....one of the reasons it's always on my belt.

Anyone ever use shot loads in their pistols? Thinking about trying some out. Seeing a schitload of rattlers up here this fall..

I've never used the shot, but I have been tempted this year as well. Have shot two this year. Would have been three but the gun was dry.



Travis

Pat, the commercial shot loads from CCI work GREAT.I used to go after snakes the way you go after coyotes, shot a couple metric tons of them.



Use the .38s�..22 shotshells can leave a lot to be desired.

I agree that the CCI .22 shotshells are next to useless. The .38 shells are a big improvement. But, if you are serious about the handgun snake-killing business, use the CCI .45 Colt loads. They are the real deal.

RS

I've used both the CCI loads for a 22 mag and 38 with good success. Hasbeen

Snakes ... Brrr ... yucky.

I walk away from most of them, just to stay quiet coyote hunting, but I do like to kill them!

Anyone make shot loads for .45ACP? Or would they even cycle through a 1911? I've got a nice little Kimber Ultra that's nice to carry...

DocRocket's class on making 45colt shot shells...

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/8962392/1

Pat, we have had several run ins with snakes this summer also.
If you have never tried shot, you may well like it. Ben and Nash have been using the .22 and .38 shot loads for years with great success. We love the shot because it allows us to shoot straight down into rocks, or back up under the front porch without danger from ricochets. We have patterned all the commonly found loads and the boys and I like the old Supper X crimped loads of 12 shot most of all. (denser pattern out to 10 feet or so) Sarah mainly shoots the CCI .38/.357 with 1/4 oz of 9 shot. Seems like she always needs a second shot, but she probably doesn't get as close as the boys do before shooting. All summer long our daily carry guns have the first two chambers packing shot. Just remember, it is a very close range proposition, so don't expect your favorite sixgun to throw shotgun patterns at 15 yards. Think six to ten feet and you will be happy.

I carry shot shells in the first two chambers year round here. Lots of snakes in the summer, only shoot the fanged ones, but I NEVER pass a chance to shoot a rat. With livestock feed, dog food, corn/beans planted, etc, I shoot a lot of rats. Heavier #9 shot works best for rats, lighter works better for snakes or mice...either will do in a pinch. I roll my own using shot capsules and 1/2 a starting Blue Dot powder charge for a 158 XTP.

The first two rounds in my snub 38 are CCI shotshells.
Have shot a lot of snakes with them, work great.
Just bought some for my 9mm.

They don't cycle worth a damn. Not the ones I tried anyway.



Travis

you put the pill right where it needed to be.

shot placement just like that is always the key.

stick with the loads you are using, as the shot is worthless, and you oftentimes need that .22 "right now" for other applications--such as when that one yote wanted to rip you, and the "snake shot" in the cylinder is a significant liability in those situations...

When working at the Ranch, I'm usually packing a Colt SAA 4 & 3/4" bbl in .45 Colt.
And 95% of the time the first loaded round is CCI .45 Colt Snake Shot Capsule.
It does a great job on big Rattlers.We're located on the Brazos River in N.TX and I kill Rattlesnakes year round, as our winters are usually pretty mild, and a lot of times, on a warm sunny day, snakes still come out to sun even in winter months.

Never had much luck with the CCI .22 LR Rat shot loads except in the barn for shooting rats in our feed room. The CCI 45acp Snake Shot work OK in a 1911,but like Travis mentioned, they will not cycle through any of my 1911's.
That's why I prefer the 45 Colt Snake Shot over all other Calibers.

Right, it was a good shot, but I failed to mention how many cylinders it took to hit his head....grin(and I may never say).

I still wish I would have snagged that Smith Model 60 you used to have...

CCI makes shot loads for the 45 ACP they are better than 38 shot load IMHO

Speer .38 shot loads work just great on snakes. I shot this one while on a prairie dog shoot in SD a few years ago. It was the last day of the hunt, and I had always wanted a snakeskin on the wall, so I chopped its head off and put the snake in a Walmart bag in the bottom of a cooler full of ice.

When I got home, the cooler was not in the truck...I thought it had been stolen. The next year I was in SD again and told the motel owner that I had lost my cooler with the snake in it. He started laughing very hard.

It turned out that a group of paleontologists had been on a dinosaur dig when I was there the previous year and had been packing their vehicle at the same time I was. One of the women in the group grabbed my cooler, thinking it was theirs, and put it in their vehicle.

When they got to the airport in Pierre, the TSA agent asked her to show him what was in the cooler...I understand the screaming could be heard all the way to Rapid City.

I bought a new cooler, but I'm still looking for a snakeskin for the wall.

Must've been a black TSA Agent

Ahhh...down here we call that a newborn.

Yes. I've killed dozens, as in multiples of 12, in the last 10 years, most with handloaded .38 shot loads. Until a massive range fire in '11, we had a pretty serious rattlesnake issue around my property. Anyhow, shot size doesn't seem to matter with the .38 as I've used 7.5, 8 & 9 with equal success and in every case, it's dead right there, right now. The .22 shotloads, at least the CCI's are damn near worthless and I lost a couple of good sized rattlers trying to make them work.

I walked in to my shop a couple of months ago just in time to see one slither behind my gun safe.

http://vid60.photobucket.com/albums/h6/308Scout/Rattlerinshop_zps5dfc1e97.mp4

Was at the back of the property last fall and found this one.



Was walking the creek about 1 1/2 miles from the house a few months ago and walked up on Mr. Grumpy Pants. He was far enough from the house that I let him go.



A few years ago I flipped over a big water trough and found this:



that'd be momma and 17 little ones.


My bird dog had this one backed up under a mesquite:



Anyhow, I use only shot loads because of the danger of shooting into and around rocks with bullets. My .38, .44's and .45 are all loaded with 5 bulleted rounds and a shot load except during the winter when the snakes are denned up.

I understand everyone, especially the lady paleontologist, was screaming. Everybody loves surprises.

long time ago I shot some soda cans with CCI shot loads, at 10 feet or so - .22, .38, and .44. The .22 is quite unimpressive. The .38 is better, the .44 shreds the can. Go with the .38 loads, bare minimum.

Afield this S&W usually has at least one shot load aboard:

That picture of the momma rattler with the 17 babies calls for a double barrel 12ga and 2 rounds of AA # 8 skeet loads. I've got one setting behind the back door at the Ranch for just such occasions.

I looked up the CCI .45 Auto snake load, interesting.

CCI says the load is intended for semi-autos only. Do not use in revolvers as recoil may lock up the revolver.

Midway USA says use CCI .45 Auto in revolvers only. Do not use in Semi-autos.

Talk about a disconnect.

It seems that the load works in some semi-autos and not in others. It also seems to work in most 1911's but not always. One has to try them and see what happens I guess.

Pat,

missing the target just doesn't sound like you--but i've always appreciated your honesty--that someone at your level can freely admit to an occasional miss...

that old model 60 traveled a lot of miles--it was a good friend (about 20 years ago, i replaced it with an sp 101 with flush fit hammer for a snag free draw).

and, i remember how it shocked you when i'd finish a yote off with it.

looked at the pics you sent to me--great job!

Savage has been asking me how you're doing. haven't seen Beyl for awhile now...we were sure lucky growing up knowing those two guys.

When I found mommy and 17 babies I had hopped on the tractor and ridden down to the back of the place with the intention of using the tractor bucket to flip the trough over then take pictures of it so I could sell it. For some reason I grabbed my H&R 929 instead of one of the .38's. So when I found the wad of serpents I used the only shot load in the cylinder to take her out first (at VERY close range I might add), did the best I could on the little ones, then grabbed a dead mesquite limb a d pummeled the rest to death as they scattered through the brush. I'm sure it was quite a sight...

I've used shot loads in my .44 Mag. Smith Mountain Gun. They will absolutely shred a snake from 10 feet. I went to the Judge but had already killed the snakes out around my house. The one I used it on wasn't killed as quickly or decisively as with the Smith and Wesson 629. Surprisingly, the Governor, which only has 2 1/2" chambers as opposed to my Judge's 3 inchers, patterns better with small shot. I'd highly recommend 9 shot if going with a 410 handgun. The downside to the 44 Mag. shotshells is the expense. Doc Rocket and others have posted recipes for shotshells if you handload. I handload but have never done any shot loads for pistols. I've never tried a 38 or 357 on a snake or anything. IMO the big bores are much preferred for this type of work. That snake would make a good hatband.

I've experimented with Speer Shot Capsules in .38 & .44 quite a bit and .45 ACP a little. The ones that begin with a 4 work a lot better. The .38's will pattern plenty good enough if you're closer than about 5 feet, but it gets thin quickly after that.

If you are going to load them yourself, use the smallest shot you can find.

I've played around with shot loads in my .38/.357 revolvers for a number of years now; no snakes in my area, but you never know when you might move!
Some of the things that I've found while experimenting:
1.) The closer you are, the tighter the pattern (might be obvious to some people)....anything past 5-6 feet gave weak patterns (in .38 special loadings).

2.) The smaller the shot, the better the pattern...in both density and even spread. I prefer #9 shot in the .38 loads.

3.) Barrel length doesn't make any noticeable difference...I've shot them out of two 2" barreled models (Colt Detective special and Charter Arms undercover), a 6" barreled Colt Trooper Mk III, and a Ruger Vaquero with a 4 5/8" barrel. All the patterns looked as if they were shot by the same gun at the same distances.

4.) If you decide to get the capsules and reload them, DON'T use military surplus cases; stick with commercial cases. The walls of the military .38 cases were too thick, which made seating difficult and when crimped, would crack the plastic casings, spilling shot all over the place (what a mess).

5.) I've experimented with the factory loads in .44 cal as well, and if you can use them over the .38, go for it....it's like shooting a 10 gauge vs a 20 gauge when comparing patterns......but the .38's don't perform too badly, so I wouldn't feel 'under gunned".

Here are a few photos I took:


Here is what the pattern looked like at 5 feet from a 2" Colt Detective special; the bigger holes are from the plastic "shrapnel" and the base plug.....both of which add to the lethality:


I often wondered about the penetrative properties of these things on non tissue, i.e. what If I had to use them in a boat, around a stock tank, etc. I took some scrap aluminum and tried to replicate the thickness of my aluminum johnboat. This was the result of that test (i.e. at 5 feet, there was some denting, but it didn't penetrate completely).

The CCI shotshells in the .22MAGNUM (not .22LR), .38/.357, and .45ACP all work just fine. The .45ACP will not cycle the Kimber.

My Smith M63 with real bullets is the only piece I have killed the two or so handfuls of rattlesnakes with. All but one killed on a friends small ranch in NorCal. Never tried any of the shot loads in any round. The 63 just worked.

Scenar,

You need to treat yourself to an LCR.



Travis

When I lived in S. Florida (where they have a few snakes) my fishing/shooting partner and I used to load 2 of the CCI shotshells then top off with 158gr. XTP or 158gr.Kieth style SWC. That combination always worked well with water moccasins and rattlers.

Stomping around the everglades west of Sunrise (think Fort Lauderdale)in late August 2010 we ran up on a 7'10" Burmese Python stretched across the trail that my Lab had discovered and pissed off.

What happened in the next several moments was a certified cluster -uck and some teachable moments occurred.
> Never shoot a large caliber snake with a small caliber gun with "snake shot".
> Getting a Labrador pulled back by the collar, drawing and shooting is not conducive to good marksmanship.
> While some may think a 357 Magnum is a peep squeak they probably have never had one go off several times less than three feet away from their left ear.

We did dispatch the snake, I emptied my SP-101 and he emptied his M-66.
The Burmese Python was not impressed by 4 rounds of snake shot, I think all we did was really piss him off and really got him moving.
With 11 rounds fired, aside from the snake shot, there were only 2 body hits and 1 that grazed the head/body junction. So much for all of our range time practice.
Nothing like the heat of the moment and adrenaline to effect your marksmanship.

After that I started carrying my Model 29-2.

SC

That's a good story starch.



Travis

Awww. just step on his neck & stab his head. What could go wrong?

If they'd only make a 3in "kit gun" version with adjustable sights.

It's Ruger. I'm sure they will sooner or later.



Travis

lol Wish it was on video.

I would buy one.

Son with 42" Mocassin done in by CCI shot shell out of a 3" Kimber.
As mentioned above, the 45 CCIs don't cycle, but that's why you practice Tap-Rack-Bang. LOL
Pattern density is Everything in HG shot loads, so when loading my own it's No 12 chilled from BP. Works great!

I remember Venturino writing an article that stated #12 is the bomb-diggity for snakes.



Travis

At 5 or 6 feet, #12 does the job in spades!

My typical encounters with snakes usually involve cottonmouths while fishing. And if your running trot lines with my brother or uncle running the boat it's not unheard of for them to end up in the boat with you.

I always carry my S&W M18 and it's loaded with Win. Rat Shot. I keep a half dozen boxes on hand. This revolver throws a good pattern out to about 8 feet. Inside that distance I've had no problem killing any snake shot at.

The most snakes I've killed in one day was 17. I was pretty much happy to go to the house by that point.

Frankly, if I were going to be living in the snakezone again, and spending a lot of time in the outdoors.....I would without a doubt buy and carry a "Judge" or similar rig loaded with .410 cartridges in #7.5 flavor for dispatching snakes.......

It would see frequent use as well.... LOL

This is what the Judge and the 410 ga Shotshell was made for

aboltfan,
When they flop in the boat with you, you take the paddle and flip them out...no muss, no fuss.

It keeps the mental midget in front of the boat from pulling his service sidearm (P226) and wanting to shoot said water moccasin while it's in the bottom of the boat.....

SC

As others have said: CCI .38 snake shot - it worked great for me, though my experience with it starts and stops with one snake and one shot. 2-1/2" 357 M19 from about 6-8 ft, dead right there - no kicking or squirming. Similar in size to the one you're showing...

Scenarshooter: I have used my S&W Model 34's (2" and 4"), Model 63's (2" and 4") and my Model 651 (4" 22 Magnum) for killing rattlesnakes for a LONG time now.
I prefer the shotshells.
I imagine I have killed 25+ to date with these arms and shotshells.
Again I prefer the shotshells to slugs - as a general rule it takes up to 3 shots from 6' or so with the 22 L.R. shotshells to quickly (humanely) kill said snakes.
Where as I generally just shoot just twice with the 22 Magnum shot shells to render the snakes inert.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I respectfully disagree. If there has ever been a use for an 8 shot magazine tube on a pump shotgun, the "brood 'o rattlers" pic is a prime example.

That one got a dose of 155 grain Gold Dot out of a Glock 35. It was all I had on me at the time.

No doubt that my Factory 8 shot 870 Riot gun would be the better tool for that job.
But mine stays loaded with 00 Buck and my Double Barrel stays loaded with AA #8 shot.

I've had very good results using the Speer capsules loaded with #10 shot with 4.0 grs of Bullseye in 38 special cases.

You might want to consider the Ruger LCR or LCRx. Both very nice guns.

frogman,

My uncle and brother have Judges now. Uncle's has 6.5 in. barrel and brother's is a 4 in. titanium model. They use .410 shot shells and .45 Colt I load for them.

Our lease is in an area known for a lot of rattlesnakes. Rest assured my brother is carrying his while he's out prepping food plots.

We don't have none of them there poisonous snakes up here.

Because 12 is so hard to find, I bought a couple of boxes of cheap Rio 12 gauge loads to cut open for the shot. I think I paid about $2.50 a box. I'm about half way there, with the capsules loaded, but not the cartridges yet.

The shot varies in size a lot, but there sure are a lot of them in one shell.

I have never done any weighing of the results but a .45 Colt with a gas check above and below, or suitable cardboard, would be a step up from Speer .44 shot capsules.

Eastern Massasauga Rattlesnake (Sistrurus catenatus catenatus)?

Your relatives would do well to do some testing with those Judges, double-action. I've had three of the 3" barreled, 3" chambered, stainless models. You simply cannot get them to work reliably double-action. I much prefer a 3" 410 to the Smith and Wesson Governor's 2 1/2" chambers, but the Governor is everything the Judge is not in every other respect. It even throws better patterns IME.

It seems that few Judge owners ever try their guns double-action. IMO that's a serious mistake.

On .45 ACP shot shells. The old Remington crimped #12 load was durable, no cracked plactic cases. As stated, they don't cycle so one round is the limit. Just pull the magazine before firing and get another one from the ammo wallet or dump pouch to finish the job, or just reload the chamber. One chambered round in .45 auto or one round in first cylinder of S&W 25 or 625 gives peace of mind. I rather think you'd guarantee addling the snake and then finish with ball if it came to that. Not ricocheting a ball round into livestock or equipment is the true plus.

We have two distinct species here; the Western Diamondback and the Massasauga. The two have remarkably different personalities. The Diamondback, given a modicum of opportunity will without exception beat a hasty retreat unless cornered. The Massasauga however are quite the opposite and of the several I killed don't remember a one who tried to get away, rather stayed put. The problem with the latter is they're significantly smaller than your typical Diamondback which not only makes them more difficult to see but also makes it more difficult to hear them rattle.
If memory serves we have had dogs bitten on six different occasions, one of which resulted in death, and I wouldn't be surprised in the least if they were by a Massasauga.

Not in the UP. Almost all of Wisconsin, Minnesota and Maine are also free of poisonous snakes.

I have used snake loads in 22,38,357,44mag and 45acp. The 44 capsules you load yourself are pretty effective on snakes. They're also damned good for old bulls that have decided never to leave the mesquite thickets. I guess you could put out an eye.I try to shoot them in the nose but with horse and bull moving who knows where I'm hitting. 2 or 3 hits have turned some rank turds around and they went right on to the corrals.
I have a 629 with a 3 inch barrel thats real handy horseback.

Fred

We have Massagua's, Prairie Rattlers and Timber Rattlers. They all merit killing, post-haste.

So far this year I'm up to seven rattlers. I dispatch them with my 1911 Colt Gunsite Pistol. One of my spare magazines are stoked with CCI .45 ACP shot shells. These cycle great through all my 1911's. Never had one not cycle. When I'm weeding, cutting brush and wood on the property I load the shot shells prior to starting work, along with putting on my snake gaiters. If I'm just out and about the gun is stoked with Federal 230 +p HST hollow points. When needed, I Tactical Load the shot shell magazine and run the slide while catching my HP.

My wife carries her Ruger LCR with the first two shots being .38 CCI shot shells. The rest are her carry loads. They also work well.

We live in northern Yavapai County, Az and I would rather live among rattlers than some people.

We have them in my area of S.E. Michigan....considered a "stronghold", as the snakes are considered "endangered". Have encountered a few while fishing (prior to being old enough for CC), and I will no longer hunt my dog in these areas until after the snow flies. We had a setter killed a year or two ago by rattlers in these "strong holds". One of the state parks is considered a "habitat", even though they have a butt load of hiking trails, picnic areas, etc.
....again, not until AFTER the snow flies!!!!

So is # 10 shot. I load it in .45 Colt, .44 Magnum, and .41 Magnum. Any of those with # 10 shot will flat take out a poisonous snake.

L.W.

I think i agree with you with that last comment, but in northern yavapai county it is sometimes hard to tell them apart.

I have loaded in all of those calibers pretty much the same way that Venturino suggested in his article. they work pretty good. What also works is a remington 1100 loaded with bird shot particularly after you reloaded a couple of times. I do hate snakes.

..snakes must like you guys.... I spent 11 years camping and hunting in Texas and think I saw a half-dozen snakes... I had a 30 acre place 50 miles east of Dallas and rarely saw a snake.

I have spent the last two months in the boonies of Idaho and yesterday saw my first snake skin...no snake just a shed...

Was going to buy some snake shot for my .41 Magnum and glad I didn't waste the money...

Mackay is always running into snakes...they must know he doesn't like them....

Bob

It depends greatly on where you are.

The first 18 years of my life I'd never seen a venomous snake in the wild. Moved to deep East Texas and within a week I'd been bitten by a copperhead. Seeing them and cottonmouths became very commonplace on our farm not to mention a litany of non-venomous ones. Over the next 20 or so years back in North Texas, again, no venomous snakes. Then I bought some land and built a house in a rural area and WOW...rattlesnakes everywhere, but it's very rare to see a non-venomous model.

You must have been out around Canton.

It really does. I don't know that I've ever seen a venomous snake on this place but about a mile from here, there's a stretch running north and south that is just full of rattlers. Always has been. We've farmed the area for generations, and my Dad talked about walking around during droughts in the 30's and hearing the rattlers down in the cracks buzzing.

I think I'll have to try this combination load soon: http://www.gunblast.com/Snake_Stopper.htm

Any of you guys tried flechette loads on snakes? Little pieces of cut wire instead of shot?

No but I'd like to fool with it. There are some Cuban frogs around that need punishment. Wife won't kill them, relocated them for awhile but they hopped back.

That is a violation of The Hague Convention!

Problem is, the CCI .38/.357 shot loads been gone for months at ZlGS and net sites. Had to resort to BB 150 HCWC loads x 2 on a roadside buzzer last month. Missed bad first shot.

I have had good luck with normal size snakes (2-4') with the crimped .22, but 10' is way too far . 4-5' much better and they just melt. I used to carry an air weight J-frame ..38 with two shot capsules first up. The second one usually came forward and locked up the gun from recoil. . So I went to a stainless 60. Not too bad but I have had the first up capsule slip forward from carry in the holster. A drop or two of super glue is recommed.

I am at the ranch a good bit on a metal Mule. A twenty guage, 20" single shot rests in an unzipped gun case just in front of the steering wheel across the dash, loaded with #8s. It works every time. For handguns, the judge or similar would be hard to beat.

Years ago, I knew an old rancher that had a ..45 Colt SAA without rifling ( yes, I know). He worked the ranch with shot shells first up. He said that if he needed hard lead, it would be close, and for that, it worked just fine. For distance, the trusty .30-30.

I'm with Venturo about the #12 shot.

Our snake sightings are down, but not gone. They seem to run in cycles.

Jack

..was only in Canton a few times to go to the flea market....

My place was in Greenville and as for hunting was just about everywhere but the Panhandle...

Bob

Used to shoot mice in an old refrigerator car with CCI LR shotshells out of a 4 3/4" revolver. You could see the pattern on the dust of that old makeshift granary. Past 10 feet, a mouse had a pretty good chance of escaping, even if centered with the pattern. Inside of 10 feet, it usually stopped them cold. The magnum shotshells added about a foot to that!

Pat, I used to shoot 45 ACP shot loads out of my Sig P220. I found I could kill a ground squirrel consistently about four to five feet off the toe of my right foot. That made it about six to seven feet away which would be a typical snake encounter distance.

But, I can't speak to the effectiveness of the smaller snot cartridges. I'm guessing though with the 38/357 shot shells you'd have to be right on top of them.

As I recall, they were CCI with #12 shot and they would cycle in my Sig, 4".

I was out in eastern Yavapai this week, and with all the rain, it is looking extra snakey. lots of high grass. I saw a 30" blacktail going across the road last week.

Sycamore

Nice shooting, Pat! What kind of holster are you using with your Smith? I have the same pistol and need a good field holster.

Cheers,
Eric

I've used CCI shot shells in my Glock 17 a bunch, killed a few rattlers with them and they cycle great in the Glock .