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Same bullet with 52 grains of RL19 runs about 2750 in mine and is absolutely awesome in the accuracy department.


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Plus +1.

That is also an excellent load in my rifle with the 140 Ballistic Tip. Winchester brass has more capacity than Remington brass. With the same loads I always get about 50 fps less with the Winchester cases. I don't worry about it and case life is excellent.

In my experience the Winchester brass is a little bit more consistent and a little bit easier to work with than the Remington cases.

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Last edited by nifty-two-fifty; 09/24/14.

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Originally Posted by nifty-two-fifty
Plus +1.

That is also an excellent load in my rifle with the 140 Ballistic Tip. Winchester brass has more capacity than Remington brass. With the same loads I always get about 50 fps less with the Winchester cases. I don't worry about it and case life is excellent.

In my experience the Winchester brass is a little bit more consistent and a little bit easier to work with than the Remington cases.

Semper Fi Marine


Thank you sir.

It should be noted that this load is using Winchester brass as well.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Bugger,

The only problems I've seen with Sierras have been when they were driven too fast and then used at short range.

Most cup-and-cores or any type work best when driven no faster than about 2800 fps at the muzzle, and 2700 with a heavier bullet is usually better, because the bullet will retain more velocity at longer ranges so still expand, yet not have as much tendency to come apart up close. Have shot many animals with the 160 Sierra GameKing from the 7x57 at around 2650-2700 and never had a problem from 100 yards to almost 400.

Have seen the 130 Sierra .270 GameKing come apart a few times when driven at 3000 fps or more on closer game, though it usually works fine from 200 yards out. In general, if I want 3000 fps out of a cup-and-core and might shoot something under 150-200 yards, the Hornady Interlock is the choice.

When I used the 105 Speer Hot-Cor in the .243 the muzzle velocity was around 2800 fps, and only one bullet came apart--but the core still penetrated and killed the deer. When I used the 140 Speer Hot-Cor in the .264 Winchester the muzzle velocity was around 3200, but I only used it for deer in open country, minimum range about 200 yards, and the result was always a wound channel and exit of about 1".

Have only seen one softpoint cup-and-core not expand (or at least not expand much), a 120-grain Nosler Solid Base from a .257 Roberts at about 2850 fps. Shot a big mule deer buck in the lungs broadside, just behind the shoulder, and he went 200 yards before falling. The hole through the lungs was very small, as was the exit. In fact only found one tiny drop of blood, right where he was shot.

But anything is possible, and you never know when some bullet company tweaks the design, or somebody on the assembly uses the wrong lead alloy for the cores, or does something else to screw up some bullets. But those are the exceptions and not the rule.


I shot a doe in the shoulder with 165 grain Sierra Game King out of a 06. The bullet didn't enter the chest cavity. The doe tried to run off on three legs. And I had to shoot her again.
My brother-in-law shot a Bull Elk with 300 Win Mag and Sierra bullet (I don't recall the specific bullet, but he thought it was appropriate). The elk eventually got away. He followed the bull quite a ways. He swore he'd never use Sierra bullets again. He switched to Nosler Partitions. He felt that there was little penetration with the Sierra's.
Like you said if the bullet isn't driven to fast, the issue will go away. But if I'm on the prairie or in the mountains and expect up to or more than 300 yards for a shot, I'll probably be carrying a 300 or 338 and if I get a 15 yard opportunity it is too late to switch bullets.
What has worked for me is primarily Interlock bullets from Hornady and Nosler Partitions. I've never had a failure with either of these. I also have not had problems with Remington bullets, but they usually don't shoot as accurate as the Interlock�s and Partitions (as if an extra 1/2" to 1" groups size would make a difference) I have heard from others that Sierras work OK for them - I wish them luck. Personally, I don't want to increase the chance of wounding a game animal, which I think might happen.
I acquired a 264 Win Mag in 1969 and had issues with all of the cup and core bullets I tried then - I didn't try them all, I am sure. I settled on Nosler Partitions (140 grain, if I remember right which were turned on a screw machine) for deer and antelope - never a problem. I didn't have the fortune to try the 264 out on Elk.
I do not understand the Speer bullet failures I've had and I have not experimented with them on game animals after the failures.

Basically I agree with what you've said, and I'm sure you've shot more big game than I. But for some reason we've had some differences on a couple of occassions.


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The loads used on the two Oryx I posted earlier in the thread. Rifle is one of the 2013 run of M70 Fwts. Disclaimer: these are at or near max in this rifle. Be careful.

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Originally Posted by Bugger
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Bugger,

The only problems I've seen with Sierras have been when they were driven too fast and then used at short range.

Most cup-and-cores or any type work best when driven no faster than about 2800 fps at the muzzle, and 2700 with a heavier bullet is usually better, because the bullet will retain more velocity at longer ranges so still expand, yet not have as much tendency to come apart up close. Have shot many animals with the 160 Sierra GameKing from the 7x57 at around 2650-2700 and never had a problem from 100 yards to almost 400.

Have seen the 130 Sierra .270 GameKing come apart a few times when driven at 3000 fps or more on closer game, though it usually works fine from 200 yards out. In general, if I want 3000 fps out of a cup-and-core and might shoot something under 150-200 yards, the Hornady Interlock is the choice.

When I used the 105 Speer Hot-Cor in the .243 the muzzle velocity was around 2800 fps, and only one bullet came apart--but the core still penetrated and killed the deer. When I used the 140 Speer Hot-Cor in the .264 Winchester the muzzle velocity was around 3200, but I only used it for deer in open country, minimum range about 200 yards, and the result was always a wound channel and exit of about 1".

Have only seen one softpoint cup-and-core not expand (or at least not expand much), a 120-grain Nosler Solid Base from a .257 Roberts at about 2850 fps. Shot a big mule deer buck in the lungs broadside, just behind the shoulder, and he went 200 yards before falling. The hole through the lungs was very small, as was the exit. In fact only found one tiny drop of blood, right where he was shot.

But anything is possible, and you never know when some bullet company tweaks the design, or somebody on the assembly uses the wrong lead alloy for the cores, or does something else to screw up some bullets. But those are the exceptions and not the rule.


I shot a doe in the shoulder with 165 grain Sierra Game King out of a 06. The bullet didn't enter the chest cavity. The doe tried to run off on three legs. And I had to shoot her again.
My brother-in-law shot a Bull Elk with 300 Win Mag and Sierra bullet (I don't recall the specific bullet, but he thought it was appropriate). The elk eventually got away. He followed the bull quite a ways. He swore he'd never use Sierra bullets again. He switched to Nosler Partitions. He felt that there was little penetration with the Sierra's.
Like you said if the bullet isn't driven to fast, the issue will go away. But if I'm on the prairie or in the mountains and expect up to or more than 300 yards for a shot, I'll probably be carrying a 300 or 338 and if I get a 15 yard opportunity it is too late to switch bullets.
What has worked for me is primarily Interlock bullets from Hornady and Nosler Partitions. I've never had a failure with either of these. I also have not had problems with Remington bullets, but they usually don't shoot as accurate as the Interlock�s and Partitions (as if an extra 1/2" to 1" groups size would make a difference) I have heard from others that Sierras work OK for them - I wish them luck. Personally, I don't want to increase the chance of wounding a game animal, which I think might happen.
I acquired a 264 Win Mag in 1969 and had issues with all of the cup and core bullets I tried then - I didn't try them all, I am sure. I settled on Nosler Partitions (140 grain, if I remember right which were turned on a screw machine) for deer and antelope - never a problem. I didn't have the fortune to try the 264 out on Elk.
I do not understand the Speer bullet failures I've had and I have not experimented with them on game animals after the failures.

Basically I agree with what you've said, and I'm sure you've shot more big game than I. But for some reason we've had some differences on a couple of occassions.


Have used Sierras out of a .300 Savage, and worked fine. Tried a 130 Sierra boattail on deer, out of a warm loaded .270. Hit a buck about 90 yards, with a quartering shot just behind the shoulder, and the result was quite decisive. smirk No exit, but all I found was the jacket. The clockwork was pretty well mush. The deer never knew what hit it, but I'm not so sure that would have been the case, had I hit the shoulder bone. smile


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Originally Posted by nifty-two-fifty
The most accurate hunting bullet in my 7x57 is the 140 gr Ballistic Tip. I believe that is the same bullet without the black coating. My load is 48.5 grs. of H-4350 at c. 2800 fps.


My model 70 Featherweight uses those also, for most of my hunting with it...my load is 44 grains of 4064, 140 grain Ballistic Tip, giving an MV of 2800 fps ( on the nose no less) out of it's 22 inch barrel...

my Ruger usually goes heavy weight, 40 grains of 3031, with a 175 grain RN, running an MV of 2650 fps...recipe out of an older Hornady Manual...which says the load should yield 2450 fps..

but 3 chrony's listed it at 2650... my cheap Shooting Chrony, but same readings out of a Pact and an Oehler...

addendum on the Featherweight... a load of 28 grains of SR 4759, with a 120 grain bullet, has the exact same point of impact at 100 yds as the 44 grains of 4064 and a 140 grain ballistic Tip...

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Was that 165 the spitzer or the "hollerpoint"? I've used the HP with no issues in an '06 and a .308. The SP, according to Sierra, is a little softer. In fact, they recommend the SP for use in .30 cal handgun loads for just that reason.

Last edited by Pappy348; 09/29/14.

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I'm heading out Friday with the 7x57 and 139 gr Hornady's and IMR4350 powder in my Remington classic - with a 2x7 Leupold on top. Plan on Antelope meat in the freezer. I got some 120 grain hollow points in case I get into a dog town after the antelope. POI is slightly different in height only. I'm actually getting anxious as it has been a couple of years since I drew a goat license.

;-)


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Great thread.

Thanks


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Saw this and thought "now why would anyone need a load to shoot Mule Deer?" He's a regular sort, seems a little over the top to me.


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I'd think about any 160 gr. bullet powdered by any 4350 powder would drop a regular sort of mule deer.

I appreciate the information on this subject. I own a push feed Model 70 in 7x57 and have used it on deer and three elk. Reloading data for the caliber varies substantially, so experience from users is highly desirable. H414 with 150 gr. bullets has worked well for me but I normally shoot off of a bench in 40 and 50 degree temperatures but hunt in colder weather, so appreciate Mule Deer's input on the temperature and accuracy problem.

With 160 gr. bullets, which I have used for most hunting, IMR 4350 gives good accuracy. 160 Partitions were used on elk, with two recovered and looking like advertisement photos. R22 gives excellent accuracy with 175 grain bullets.

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Hello,

I have two 7x57. The first one a so-called Plezier Mauser (mine is not exactly like the ones went to South Africa in the Boer times). It is one of the very few Original Sporting M93 Mausers made by DWM. I have it since 1972 when my Grand Father gave it tome. He had received it from his father.... The other is a M1935 Argentine Mauser made as sporter at our Government Arsenal around 1970. It was from its start a 7,65x53 Mauser. I change the original barrel and put an original mint military one made by S.I.G. (marked S.J.G) for the 1912 Chilean Mauser.
Both has a rifling twist of one turn in 222,5 milimeters. Around one turn in 8,76". The standard original Mauser designed.
It has been, and still is my main hunting rifle/cartridge. For European Red Deer, Fallow Deer, Axis Deer and Wild Boar.
I ended using mostly 154 Hornady Spire Point, 160 Speer Mag Tip, 160 Nosler Partition, 173 H-Mantel, 175 Speer Mag Tip and the 175 Nosler Partition.
I use the 154 grs Hornady for the Axis and Fallow Deer. The rest 160 to 175 grs for the big Red Deer (almost an Elk by size ) and the Wild Boar.
I load the 154 Hornady near 2800 f/s, the 160 grs around 2750 f/s and the 175 grs at 2650 f/s.
The Original M98 Mauser barrel has around .350" of freebore. This, plus the lenght of the magazine, allows to load the cartridge to an OAL of 3,25" and a .4" of free bullet travel (Nosler 175 grs). With my former not-anymore-mine Mannlicher-Schoenauer GK 7x64 and 60 cm barrel I could never reach more than 2700 f/s with that 175 grs Nosler Partition bullet. The actual case capacity with the OAL the magazine permited (being the freebore a long, long one, almost double the 7x57 one) was no more than 5 grs greater than the 7x57 as I load it. Period.
Those velocities are with Winchester cases, Std. primers and 4350, R19 and the GREAT R22 powders. The cases last 10 loads without any problem. But I use cases with no more than three reloads for hunting.
In my experience the 175 grs Nosler with that load is perhaps the best for those big game animals. And I would not have any problem to use it as an all around load in the 7x57. For our Blackbuck (India) antelope, I use specially the 139 grs Hornady at 2900 f/s, but any of the other would be perfectly apt too.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Unfortunately, there�s no exact load like that for the 7x57, since chamber throat lengths vary so much. But H4350 works very well. Start with 40 grains, no matter the bullet weight, then work up until you get about the following velocity with these bullet weights:

140�2800
160�2650
175�2500

Unless the barrel on your rifle is under 20�, you should be able to reach those velocities safely, and accuracy will usually be good.


John,

What velocities would you expect with H4831(long or sc) with 150, 160 and 175 gr bullets?

thanks,

Scott

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It would depend on barrel length, but about the same as the list you quoted, with the 150's at 2800 or so.


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Sorry 22 to 24" barrels

Any real advantage of H4350 or H4831?

One thing that has always bothered me was the Nosler 150 gr data that shows max velocities for H4831sc around 2600 IRC. What are your thoughts? Did they get a funky lot?

Thanks,

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I have 5 7X57's in the gun room a couple of #1A's and a 700 Mountain Rifle have seen the most use as our Michigan woods rifles for 15 yrs between the wife, sister and I. I loaded 140gr Game Kings at 2500-2600 for the girls and 140 PT's at 2800 for myself, both with H4350. They were all boringly effective....30 or so kills over 15 yrs. Never caught a bullet at our short ranges (under 125 yds. Haven't used one in 10 yrs now...writing this may make me dig one back out for this season....


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