Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Which Rifle Starting Out?

I have never owned a muzzle loader and have little knowledge of them.

Where I hunt there are no restrictions of any sort on rifles, ignition, or bullets. If it loads from the muzzle, it's legal for deer...

What is my best choice in rifle and load to begin with.

Assume a rifle price of around $500... If I can spend less, well, great.
If I need to spend more, tell why.

I have an assortment of steel tube Weaver 2.5s and 4Xs that I can use.

This rifle says discontinued rifle but seems to be in stock. I think this is the same rifle that I bought from walmart a long time ago that was branded as a Woods Rifle instead of a Black Diamond. They look exactly alike. Mine has been great and I have killed lots of stuff with it. Deer along with a couple of coyotes and one bobcat. I have never had any trouble with it using the musket cap although I have the shotgun primer nipple. I would also go .50 cal no matter the rifle chosen. miles

This place has one Black Diamond XR in stainless left in stock
http://store.thirdgenerationshootingsupply.com/browse.cfm/2,4385.html

They are very well made rifles with great triggers but a novice might be better off with a T/C Impact, CVA Optima V2 or new Wolf in SS.

The XR is a older plunger design and a novice might not enjoy the extra care in cleaning needed. It also is not compatible with Blackhorn209.

If you dont mind the extra blowby and dont care about BH209, the XR is a fantastic ML.

What is blackhorn 209?

OK...
Googled it and it seems to be what all the cool kids are shooting for powder...

Can someone boil down the advantages for me? And Vs. Pellets?

It's stable, clean, and gives excellent accuracy and velocity. It's a little pricey and not all guns are compatible. You save a little with it because it requires standard 209 or 209 magnum primers instead of the expensive special 777 primers. It's not available in pelleted form.

Pellets are convenient, expensive, and probably not quite as accurate as loose powder, although that may not be such a big deal.

Midway has T/C Omegas still in stock and in your price range. It's discontinued, but very popular, for good reason.

You can also get a lower end Knight at a discount and they are good accurate rifles, at least the inlines. Someone else can tell you about the Vision, perhaps. Others like the CVAs, but I don't care for them myself, or most break-actions in general. That's just my preference.

That Black Diamond that I showed a link to, was better balanced and lighter than the Knights and Remington frontstuffer of the same time period. miles

I have a CVA and it will get the job done, but I much prefer the Thomson. miles

Generally speaking, how hard is it to find scope bases for a muzzle loader?

And do most rifles come with enough of the basic accessories to get a guy into shooting and hunting for a season or 3?

Will buying a ML set me on an endless round of the "gotta have this"???

Am wanting a ML to increase my time spent hunting... NOT looking for an additional hobby or extra project time...

Depends on which one.

No.

Endless is a strong word, but probably, at least until you figure out what works in your rifle and for you.

There is a certain learning curve associated with MLs that you will have to overcome to be successful and safe. There's also a bit more maintenance associated with them, and shortcutting that will leave you with a damaged or ruined rifle and may cost you opportunities in the field. You may find that you like muzzleloading well enough to give up something else.

"Will buying a ML set me on an endless round of the "gotta have this"???"

Probably. It does to most people.

The reason there are special seasons, like archery & muzzleloading, is that it takes a little extra effort to participate,(although a little less every year it seems). The sport of muzzleloading is enjoyable and not all that hard, but, there are many things you'll find you need and learn along the way to make it that way. There are many people that will offer advise based on their experience, but it's up to you to figure what works best for you. If you don't want to learn and practice the disciplines of the sport (hobby?), don't participate in the season.

And the original Knight MK85s and even the MK95s had real Timney triggers. White rifles from that period had Bold triggers.

All were darn nice and balanced well depending on the model variation. Non XR Blackdiamonds and old ThunderHawks were very handy. MKs were also made in 2 barrel lengths, possibly more.

I have a "thing" for those first generation inlines, especially the Whites. My LGS has an immaculate in the box Knight MK85 stainless/laminated for two bills I am sorely tempted to take home, and a like new H&R .58 cal Huntsman.......... but already have 2 new-to-me MLs that I haven't even shot yet. I'm a hoarder.

$200 for a NIB MK in SS/Laminate is a steal!!!!

BTW a new Bighorn stock is supposed to fit them if you want to keep the laminate in like new condition.

Yep, so is $165 & I had to "adopt" it. I justified it because I already have a 209 kit and bases for it. It'll have to go to the back of the line for awhile though.

So...

What is my best choice for load and rifle to begin shooting and hunting deer?

Assume please, that I will use BH209 powder...

I am curious about the T/C Impact and the CVA Accura. What else should I be looking at?

Best... who the hell knows?

If you want advice on something that should work for you until you gain some experience, then buy,

A TC Encore FX and mounts or an Omega
A couple of packs of Harvester Crush Rib .45/.50 sabots (.45 caliber bullets in a .50 caliber rifle).
A couple bottles of BH209
100 Hornady 250 grain XTP .45 caliber bullets.
200 209 or 209magnum primers (not 777 primers)
A pack of good quality cotton .50 patches and a .50 bore brush.
Cleaning solvent
A ML range rod with a muzzle guard and a .50 caliber jag.
An adjustable powder measure with a sliding funnel on the end.
12 to 18 BH209 charge tubes.
A small possibles bag for your stuff.
A 209 primer holder
Although you may not need it, a polymer short starter might be handy.

Anywhere from 80 to 100 grains (by volume, not weight) of BH209 is all you'll need to kill deer.

Do some reading. Follow the instructions that come with the rifle, especially the safety and maintenance stuff. Go to the BH209 website and read everything.

The list above ain't perfect, and others can and will disagree about some or all of it, but it should work. Put in the time it takes to get familiar with your rifle and the loading sequence before you head out to the woods. As others have remarked, muzzleloading takes time and effort and if you think it sounds too involved, maybe it's not for you.

If anyone notices that I've left something out, please chime in.

I'll take a stab at this, although I am far from an expert. I have been hunting with muzzleloaders for over thirty years, but like you, they only interest me as an additional hunting opportunity.

How will you be hunting (treestand, still hunting, in the woods or over crops, etc.)? If extended range is a requirement, you need to look at rifles that are capable of an 150gr load.

I have never used Blackhorn 209, but it is my understanding that some rifles may require a modified breech plug to use it. I also understand that to get consistent ignition that the projectile has to fit the bore fairly tight, which means it will be harder to load.

All propellants have drawbacks. 777 pellets tend to leave a crud ring in the breech that makes bullet seating difficult if not brushed out after every shot. Both 777 & Pyrodex pellets have a short shelf life. Once you break the seal on the box you better figure on using it up that season. By next season you will be getting inconsistent ignition and velocities. Pyrodex and 777 are both hydroscopic and corrosive, even in unfired form.

After using pellets for several years, I'm back to using Pyrodex RS granular. If I could find a good supply of FFg black powder, I would use it instead of the Pyrodex.

What I look for is a rifle that is relatively light, has a decent trigger, and has an easily removable breech plug with 209 shotgun primer ignition. My hunting rarely offers shots over 100yds, so I'm not interested in long range capability.

I use a load of 80gr Pyrodex RS with a Hornady .430 265gr flat point bullet (the one for the .444 rifle cartridge) in a Harvester crush rib sabot. This combo loads easy in my current rifle and groups 3 shots consistently within 1-1/2" at 100yrds.

I haven't looked at any of the newer muzzleloaders recently, but you should be able to find something in the price range you're looking at. I would try a few and see what fits the best. Also, if you are looking to keep cost down, I wouldn't spend any extra on a stainless model, they will corrode almost as fast as CS if neglected.

There's a review on the Impact on Chuckhawks ML section. Looks pretty favorable.

Be prepared; the writer, Randy Wakeman, is a confirmed CVA hater.

Find yourself an older T/C Hawken or Renegade in .50 caliber that has a good barrel. Might cost you $350, more or less. Buy bullets, buy powder and caps. Load 90 grains of 2fg BP and a 370 grain maxi-ball, go kill stuff. It isn't that complicated.

They shoot well and are reliable. Get one that was built before the QLA feature came to be.