Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Backpack Hunting Damned irritated at Kuiu customer service

Awhile back--I really don't recall when- I ordered a Kuiu synthetic top--maybe a windshirt, when they brought it out in Verde (and that's new, so it wasn't ancient history). Like many of us, I work 55-65 hours in any given week, and I made the bad mistake of not trying it on immediately. I've spent a lot of money at Kuiu, and everything always fit flawlessly...one of their selling points.

The first weekend in September is our archery elk opener, and it was the first time I wore it...and was dismayed to find out that while it was fine in every other dimension, even a little long in the arms and trunk, it was skin tight in the forearms to the point where I couldn't bend my elbows, let alone pull up the sleeves if I were gutting an animal. I should point out here that I'm 6'0" and 165 lbs--hardly a monster. And every piece of the other dozen Kuiu items , all sized medium, have fit flawlessly.

So, I log on to their website and pull up my account to see the item number, order date, etc., and it's blank, though it's worked fine for me in the past. I called Kuiu. No answer in half a dozen calls. I e-mail, describe the situation, thank Kuiu for its high quality products and support for groups like Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, and wait a few days. A customer service rep responds pleasantly, explains that there has been a change of computer systems, and asks me to to send a photo. I do--and I've articulated now that bow season is open and I to resolve this as soon as possible--and I wait for five days. I send a tickler e-mail, and receive the following from another rep:

Jock,

Thank you for your email. Unfortunately, that is over our 60 day return policy and it also has been worn as you had mentioned, which also does not meet our return policy. I apologize for any inconvenience.

Best Regards,


McCade
KUIU Customer Service

1) It would be pretty tough to know that it didn't fit in one crucial area if I had not worn it for part of a day on one trip, and
2) It's not an arbitrary decision on my part--like I don't like the style or color. The sleeve diameter is inadequate; it would be tight on my young daughter. That hasn't been true of any other Kuiu garment I've owned. It's either a design or a sewing flaw, and I don't see why a company that markets to the top tier of hunters would time-limit returns in that kind of situation.

I guess I'm most irritated because I thought this was a company I thought I could support and find high quality gear at for the rest of my career. After this experience, I find it hard to support them in any way.

Jock, was it the tiburon top? This was a well known issue that the cut and sew facility sewed the sleeves on wrong and the stretch in the shirt was over the length of the arm, not the width.

I had the same issue, it's pretty piss poor that they won't return it as this was a known issue. But, in some respects I can understand the cut-off date from them. Sucks to hear.

Hey, JR--yeah, that sounds right. I can see the cut-off--but not for a clear defect, and not from a premium company. Even LL Bean and Cabela's have better customer service than that.

Nice profile pic! Give a shout the next time you're over this way.

Oct 25th is closing fast.

I'd try and call and speak with Ben over there. I think his email is benbkuiu.com. Remind them that this was a first run of the product and a defect from the manufacturer. They will exchange past the 60 day but not refund. I'm betting you just got the wrong person.

Lee

Yes talk to Ben or Todd. Remember that this is also a very busy time of year for them as well. Give them the chance to make it right.

Thanks for the good advice.

If you are trying to play at the top end of the market, there is no area where your performance can be less than stellar. I know personally that I am a lot less likely to cut a company slack (or pay a premium price) if their service is mediocre or if they fail to employ their own customer base - an area KUIU looses points when they send their production offshore.

Ben came through, and I'm grateful to Ebby and 805 for that suggestion. Here is Ben's response, which came quickly:

Sorry for the confusion there, I have been up in Alaska for the past 10 days hunting Caribou. That was a manufacture and a design flaw in the original Tiburon Zip-T and has been addressed in the next Gen of the Zip-T. I would be more than happy to take that one back and get you on a backorder for the newly designed Ultra Tiburon. It is now a 4-way stretch fabric and coated with a Antimicrobial coating. Let me know if this is something that you would like to do.

Kuiu would do well to standardize its customer service training. It would have been very easy to go medieval online or just shut up, cut them off, badmouth them to my friends, and unleash on Jason the next time I see him.

Glad you got it worked out!

This is something that their customer service should have known about since it was a known manufacturers defect. It should take one of their top level guys to make it right, their customer service people need to be trained a bit better IMO.

Glad it all worked out for you in the end.

Sounds like a great result. However, anytime you have to be smart enough about a company's CS department to know you have to speak to 'Ben' or 'Todd' to get the result that should have been automatic....well that makes me nervous.

The older I get, the less patience I have for those type of companies. That said, I was just about to order a set of attack pants...hhhmmm

I think this discussion also highlights another issue, it is damn hard to find good help these days especially at the lower end of the pay scales....hell probably not just the lower end.

One wouldn't think it's too hard to get everyone aligned to follow a single protocol, but in practice it is quite difficult.

Setch
The attack pants are awesome!!! You will be more than pleased with them.

Kuiu might not have everything ironed out yet but their products are very well thought out and I will continue to support them.

Second the pants.... they rock.

Kuiu's move to China pissed me off, but they make some great gear.

I've sent stuff back in the past, but only because of fit issues, so never dealt with customer service. Glad you got it worked out.

You are right, it is not that hard. It requires strong leadership within the organization. From that point, aligning to a single protocol or CS approach is pretty easy.

I hate to say it but can't fault Kuiu for the first response. You went a really long time without trying it on then used it and expected a full return. You were asking a lot...

Sure he can, it was a known defect and they should have caught it the first go round. SHouldn't matter how long he waited if they knew there were issues with the shirt in the first place. Their customer service is obviously not up to par quite yet.

Their CS is bottom of the barrel. Most likely these would have straight screwed you if you hadn't posted. They intensely monitor hunting forums. They knew every shirt in the first run was defective. If their CS was top notch they would have contacted you through email and recalled the shirt before you even knew there was a problem.

I bought Attack pants that were too tight for the size. They wouldn't let me return them as I had pulled the tags. I sold them at a discount on EBAY.

Not a happy customer experience.

805 and cwh2...my waist is about 36" to 37". Based on their size chart, I am thinking I am between L and XL. How do the pants fit?

The pants are still sized by inch in waist size if I'm reading the site correctly?

I wear 32X34 Carhartts and jeans. That's what I ordered, and they fit me perfect. Only thing I've ever layered under them is 185 wt merino, which isn't much. I got mine in 2011, and have heard lots of complaints about sizing since then. It might pay to order two sizes and send back the ones that don't fit.

For jackets, I went with medium originally and sent them back for large. I'm 6'1 and 170 if that helps.

Second rate CS and product QC at top tier pricing will cost them dearly� First lite and others are going to kick Kuiu off the top of the mountain very soon� They have lost touch with the market that made them what they are. Happens all the time, great idea to start, then as growth sucks cash and hurts gross margins, supply chain is off shore'd, then quality suffers, CS suffers, customers revolt and a new entrant comes onto the scene� Kuiu has seen its best times, they are on the way out. The circle of free enterprise at its best.

Speaking of CS, how is Sitka? Do they handle issues with products post-retailers return period or if issues arise are you stuck?

Contrary to "redfoxx's" ruminations, I have had great CS transactions. A 60 day return policy is pretty darn liberal. I make it a habit of trying on and looking at zippers and high stress stitch locations within 48 hours while leaving the tags on.
Is it expensive? Yes, but compare it to Sitka ( Jasons former company) and others it is not that out of line. Buy it at seasonal price reductions - which are undoubtedly coming up.

Recently, a careless postal employee stuffed $400 of clothes into my rural box. There were two slices in the bag that I carefully opened and was relieved to see didn't damage any clothing. A call to McCade at Kuiu resulted in a response of, "don't worry, let us know if that ever happens and we'll replace it".

This is specialty high tech clothing that has a premium price. Recall in the spring of '13 they had an across the board decrease in price.

Anything in the CS arena can develop into an "issue", but I find most people are willing to please the consumer.

Hmmm� "ruminate"� that's cute "big whoop".

Do u guys use the kuiu clothing in cold weather hunts?

If so, is it warm?

I've not used it below about 10F. Below that I don't do much backpacking.

I wore a 185 and 250 top with super down coat and guide jacket with guide pants and 250 bottoms when it was 5 degrees and I was plenty warm with minimal activity.

For you guys who are on the east cost in the big hardwoods...what are your thoughts on the 2 different camo patterns Kuiu has - Vias Camo or the Verde Camo?

While I'm not on the east coast I say either of the two patterns is fine. The Verde has more green and the Vias has more earth tones. Later season patterns would favor Vias as leaf cover may be gone. I buy their non-camo tones and have had no problems filling the freezer. Plus the clothes can work "on the street" if need be.
Bowhunters might be more discriminating however. Good luck.

I have the verde for CO elk hunting, but it seems fine in VA too. For late season the vias would seem better to me. They both break up your silhouette.

The guide jacket in Verde L/XL is backordered until early November....which eff's up my Halloween hunt.

I'll have to check the vias.

I love Vais camo - I think its the best pattern out there. Period. If you are big in the chest, their jackets run a little small. I'm usually a Large (rarely XL) in a jacket at 5'10, 215 and their XL Guide DCS is so tight in the chest it won't permit an adequate insulating layer. I kept it for warmer weather hunts anyway.

I ordered a 2 xl in their top of the line Yukon jacket last week and it's a little roomy, but I'll at least be able to layer some down underneath. Their shells are pretty chilly without good insulation underneath, but very well made. I like it better than sitka for sure.

Good advice....I will definitely be trying the L and XL.

I wear a DCS guide jacket with a couple layers of the merino wool and a Cabela's Switzer Primaloft jacket and that is adequate for hunting in the teens. That's hunting/hiking in CO, I'd want a bit more for sitting in a stand.

If you have chest and arms muscles or long arms you will hate Kuiu. You could get by as long as you do not need to layer. If you are a skinny breadstick you will more then likely love Kuiu. Their pant sizing seems to be good.

Comparing Kuiu and Sitka isn't apples to apples. I can go to a number of stores and try their stuff on. Not so with Kuiu. The whole reason for direct to consumer is to cut cost. There for Kuiu is over priced.

Kuiu is a very niche market. Because of that it may survive. Low overhead and high prices make up for volume. Kuiu could be a rockstar with a few tweeks.

You're correct that they aren't apples to apples, but how do you figure KUIU is overpriced in comparison.

I mean, you can get a Guide Jacket, Attack Pants and either a set of merino tops and bottoms, or a super down zip, or a variety of accessories for far less than just the 90% coat and jacket.

Guide Jacket and attack pants are $318, Sitka 90% is $558. Certainly you can find Sitka at 40% off from time to time, that get's it closer, but KUIU runs roughly 30-40% less for their clothing line....retail markup is roughly the same.

Thanks, you beat me to it! Overpriced because of the convenience? We'll see what he responds with.

This is exactly the math I was doing. Bummed about so many kuiu items on backorder, but I'm optimistic about them. I stopped by cabelas to size the sitka jackets and was really surprised to see they were all made overseas. Wasn't that the compliant about Kuiu, no longer manufactured in US and moved overseas? Seems sitka has been doing that for awhile now.

KUIUs fabrics have always come from overseas. They were labeled and "made in North America" (for their first year 2011/12) which meant they were assembled by Chinese migrants in Vancouver BC. Now the cut an sew function is done by Toray subsidiaries in China and Vietnam.

Obviously a sensitive issue for many, but when you look at all the details (supply chain, volume, growth, and who was sewing jackets/pants together before) i think it's a bit blown out of proportion. Though the labeling/branding was a bit of a snafu on KUIUs part...I never figured it would last with reasonable growth.

If I had the capital, I'd start a hunting clothing company here in America...because no one would every by anyone else's gear ever again.

You are absolutely correct. And honestly, when you're a high profile company like they are, located where they are, finding quality people is not all that tough. It all comes to training and then following through on the execution of that training. It's not rocket science.

I'm speculating a bit here, but Ben explained to me he and a bunch of the regulars had been on a caribou trip. It's possible I got a brand new kid. Not a happy experience, but with the help of you guys it got turned around, and Ben's explanation adds context.

Why don't you disgruntled customers file against Kuiu to the BBB or the State Attorney General? I have done so before.

I don't think its unreasonable to ask people to try their things on when they receive them, no matter how busy they are. If the garment would have been tried on when received the flaw should have been noticed. The buyer has as much responsibility to check over their merchandise when they receive it as the seller does in sending the proper merchandise in the first place.

I just had a sizing concern with Kuiu. Ordered a 145 base layer top and it is great. Ordered a 210 base bottom in XL. I have a 37" waist and it fit fine. However I have a 30" inseam, the sizing chart said all non rain gear would have 34" inseam so I expected some extra length. Instead the leg bottom barely reaches the bottom of my calf. Emailed them and the response was that base bottoms are sized short in the inseam to aid in layering and the sizing chart failed to point that out. Anyone else experience this? They did offer to allow a return which I am considering. Just seems like a cheap shortcut to save cost. Why would you design a heavy base layer to not cover all the way to the ankle? If you have used the base bottoms give me your input so I can decide if I should return or not.