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At least the 2nd one I've seen like this, possibly the 3rd. Serial number was around 21.xxx if I remember correctly, it was an SRC and obviously the rotor is not the common brass rotor. Looks like some kind of repair was made at the back of the rotor on this one. Was at the Fest. I know we've mentioned these once or twice in the last 9 years or so, but don't think we've ever had pictures of one.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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I have one that I bought on ebay years ago.
My Grandfather's 1899 B has one and the SN is 15.4xx. It sort of separated a bit but I was able do a little filing and got it to work OK.
Looks like they were few and far between and not the best in quality.
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Does a magnet stick to it? The other one I saw was at Cabela's in Sidney and was also very early, I seem to recall 18.xxx or so. Might have even been an SRC, know it was short barreled so maybe an SR. Here's a pic of the entire rifle:
Last edited by Calhoun; 09/19/14.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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I think the owner was Mike and is the missing name in Gary's photo (top left). Saw the info on the Fest and brought in the SRC for some info. Can anyone else back me on that?
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
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Don't recall the name but I talked to him quite a bit. I figured he signed in tho?
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I THOUGHT IT WAS SHORTGRUBS RIFLE?
�Can we move this along?" a bored voice stated. "I have places to be and people to shag."
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The owner is standing in the back row, left side. You can see his blue shirt sleeve in the first photo of the rifle. He was from WI, reads the Forum but not a member. I think he was badged as Mike.
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
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I don't understand this post. Are you saying that you think steel rotors are rare? If they are, I had no idea they were. Lot of .303's had them.
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Lots? Can you list some specific ones that you have? We've only seen a few.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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I am not a collector, just a hunter with them. I pulled them out of the closet and: 1 solid frame .303 246xxx and 1 solid frame (was .303) now .22 HiPower I replaced with a brass rotor, 80xxx. I know I still have at least one steel rotor in my possibles box, maybe more if I pulled cabinets apart. I have seen a few steel rotors over the years when working on them. I remember replacing one for a guy that wanted a brass one. I have less than a dozen 99's, so I thought steel rotors were more common. My .243 has what appears to be an aluminum one, but I don't feel like pulling it apart. I still have a .308 I converted to .260, and that rotor is brass. I don't know, how many aluminum rotors do you see? Maybe the steel rotors were specific to an area where rifles were shipped at the time the rotors were being used. 99's were really popular for hunting here on the east coast for many years. What caliber were the guns you were talking about? I had to check, the rotors are seriously magnetic, cast iron or steel, not pot metal. Maybe we are not talking about the same thing?
Last edited by Gunplummer; 09/19/14.
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It's the early rifles that are referred to in this post. Pre-WWI...probably pre-90,000 rifles.
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Well i just went out and looked at the rotors in my pre-90,000 rifles , 32 guns and they are all brass rotors!! id say the pot metal ones are not that common!
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Here's some pics of what we are discussing. The rotor is not magnetic except for the bushing at the end that engages the rear carrier support hole. I'd say it is pot metal that is coated with tin to make it shiny. I've never seen one above the 40,000 range and they seem to be used at random up to there.
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So Savage tried pot metal, bronze/copper(?), brass and later steel and aluminum. Nice photo Mike, thanks!
Savage...never say "never". Rick...
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Just to be clearer, we are not talking about the case colored steel rotors seen later.
Brian
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Nope, we're not talking case colored rotors.
1) We had a very few early 1899's with "other-than-brass" rotors that have shown up, as exemplified by Lightfoot's photo. As Lightfoot says, they seem to be really early rifles.
2) I think we've heard of a few WW2 era 99's show up with steel rotors?
3) We had the early 50's case colored steel rotors in EG's and R's.
4) We have the post-1960 aluminum rotors.
5) I have no idea why a non-brass rotor would be in a 1920's rifle as Gunplummer says he had, that's a new one. But never say never.
This thread is only about the early 1899's.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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We were talking about two different things. The rotors I have are not pot metal, but some type of cast iron or cast steel that are not color cased. Can't say I have ever seen one that was pot metal. The thing that threw me off was the picture with the braze repair. You cannot braze pot metal.
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I wouldn't have believed it with out those pictures. Still hard to believe. Especially for the time period and the level of quality associated with it.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Gunplummer, at the Fest he was talking about the fact you can't braze pot metal - so you're on the same page there. He was going to take it home and put a magnet to it and hopefully come back here and let us know what happened. The other one I saw looked extremely similar to the one Lightfoot has pictured. I remember when I reached in to turn it the rotor felt pretty lightweight.
There may very well have been both cast steel and pot metal rotors popping up in trial runs during those first couple of years. We just need to get evidence in hand regarding them, which is why I started this thread.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Have never seen or heard of a steel rotor before WWII. Some of the post war steel rotors are case colored and some are not. It is not unthinkable that a post war steel rotor could have been installed in an earlier gun at some point. I have seen the steel ones on ebay and gunbroker.
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Since pretty much all short carriers are interchangeable who among us knows what combinations might be out there.
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I've posted pictures before, some time ago, but I have one that appears to be a bronze rotor. Not sure where the photos are at these days but if I run across it, I will post it.
Andrew
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Here's another one. This is in my 1899C .303, SN 15.978 Definitely not magnetic, not brass. yooper
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Thanks for the photo and data point, every one helps.
Pretty sure I've checked all my early ones in the past, need to do it again tho.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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Hi - this is my first post on this site. I am the guy who brought the SRC to Savage Fest. You have the pictures posted of the gun. I took the gun home, and tried the magnet to the rotor and it is not magnetic. The serial number is 24.9xx. One other feature of the rotor that was not discussed, was the fact that the cartridge numbers were not stamped on it. Perhaps someone else has seen the same thing on this type of rotor or any normal type rotor. Thanks to everyone who helped answer my questions. That was so helpful. I hope to attend another show when it's in the state again. You guys have some fantastic guns and it's a treat seeing them all in one place!
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Glad you checked in here! I've not seen one in a gun without numbers on it.
Welcome to the 'Fire!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Definitely welcome!
I didn't even to think of looking at the numbers until I was driving home. Try reaching in and turning the rotor by hand and see if you see any numbers come into the window. It might be it's just misaligned (we at least need to rule it out).
Thanks for bringing that rifle in!
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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This is the one I have asked about before. Appears to be like Lighfoot's. #23.XXX
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I've had 3 steel case hardened rotors to date. All three were in 99EG's from the mid 50's. Two in 300 Savage and one in 250 Savage. Honestly never thought they were all that rare.
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I have a .303 sav.---ser.#173xx --- that had a broken rotor when i bought it(knowningly). when i took it apart i found a " pot metal" rotor. replaced it with brass and works fine.I thought the other one was a replacement, but I was probably wrong,again.
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Cant say Iv ever seen an early one with the pot metal, have an early "B" that someone drilled the # 0 out maybe a blind shooter, LBK filled the hole for me works fine, just no 0 there!
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Welcome to the campfire, pomsct! Nice to get info on more of these.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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I took the gun home, and tried the magnet to the rotor and it is not magnetic. The serial number is 24.9xx. at the Fest he was talking about the fact you can't braze pot metal That rotor looks to definably have been brazed. So what do you guys think the composition of these rotors is. Pot metal {die-cast zinc}. Copper-Nickel Alloy. Or what?
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My guess would be cast aluminum. Cast zinc would be very fragile. Just a guess though, without one to examine. If anyone has a broken one, the way to tell would be the crystalline grain structure seen on the broken edge. Die-cast would have big unevenly sized "crystally" looking grains. The grain structure of aluminum is much much smaller and more even in nature.
I wonder if the engineers at Savage were arguing among themselves 100+ years ago over the best material to use for the rotors. I'm glad brass won out.
Those rotors must have been tricky buggers to cast. Obviously done via the lost wax method of casting, as sand castings would be a bugger to get nice and smooth/shiny over all the surfaces.
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That would have been very early for aluminum, but with Arthur as the engineer I wouldn't rule it out.
“ The Savage 99 Pocket Reference”. All models and variations of 1895’s, 1899’s and 99’s covered. Also dates, checkering, engraving.. Find at www.savagelevers.com
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I have some breaks in mine, I'll post some close up photos tonight
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I seem to remember hearing about a cold weld process used long ago (or chemical weld ?),do you think there could have been a cold (or chemical) braze process? Also to correct an earlier observation of mine concerning the lack of numbers on the rotor, my son took the rotor out and looked real close at it and said he saw faint numbers on it,so nothing unusual there.
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Here's a few pics of the broken end
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Yeah, looks like pot metal.
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mine with a bronze/copper rotor is right at 77,000.
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The 2nd earliest 1899 I have is 21xxx and the rotor is a non-magnetic steel colored metal. The earliest is 1001x (by one record it is one of 300 made in 1898) also has the steel colored non-magnetic rotor. Perhaps the very earliest were made of this metal?? Interestingly, all 6 of my 1895's are of brass. My 3rd earliest 1899 is 28xxx and is of brass. I do have what I originally thought was another 1895 (sn 692x)but now believe it to be a rebarreled 1895 action with an early 1899 1/2 round/ 1/2 oct. 303 sav. barrel. The latest barrel date is October 3, 1899 and it says 'model 1899' on the barrel. The rotor is brass, but the interesting thing is that the bolt is the early 1899 bolt with the rectangular cocking indicator. Rebarreled AND upgraded 1895??
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I have a 99 in .250 made for me in the mid-80's and it has a rotor that is not brass. Silver color.
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Here is a Parts diagram from the 1900 Savage catalog, it shows the pot metal style rotor with the carrier spindle integral with the spindle head. In latter parts diagrams it shows the latter design with a spindle shaft that is inserted through the rear of the carrier and the spindle head that is held to the spindle shaft with a nut.
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Here's a few pics of the broken end The broken one appear to have porosity issues which may make it more brittle as well.
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How/why would the rotors break like that do you think? Force? Obstructions? Both? Seems like it would require a lot of force to break even a pot metal rotor.
Last edited by sayak; 01/19/15.
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I bought the gun knowing the rotor was stuck and wouldn't turn, I couldn't see that the spindle head was broken until I took it apart. I assume that the back of the long fin on the rotor had broken off and jammed the rotor and someone tried to rotate it through the window in the receiver where the cartridge numbers are seen and broke the spindle head. I found the end of the rotor fin inside when I disassembled it.
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