Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting What is the real advantage of the 338L and 338E over the 338WM?

When I see a youtube video of a ~~2070 yard shot with a 338L or 338E, I run the numbers and the 338WM would have that terminal velocity at 2000 yards.

I have a 338WM reamer, dies, brass, rifles and barrels.
I never have killed anything past 510 yards, and that was with a 270.

I could buy a 338L and 338E reamers, dies, and actions with that bolt face, but I can't see any real gain.

Wow, how can you not see the advavantage? The 338 Lapua to Edge can start a 300 grain SMK or Berger 2800 FPS at the muzzle. No way the 338 win mag can do that, no way that the win mag can maintain the same terminal velocity at 2000 yards either. The win mag may start a 300 long range bullet 2400 FPS. The time of flight and the wind drift is significantly less with the Lapua and the Edge.

If I plug into Quickload:
338 edge
300 gr SMK
65 kpsi
24" barrel
The fastest I can get with a Hodgdon extreme powder is 82 gr H4381 -> 2595 fps -> 994 fps at 2000 yards, 2305.8" of drop

If I plug into Quickload:
338WM
300 gr SMK
65 kpsi
24" barrel
The fastest I can get with a Hodgdon extreme powder is 66.2 gr H4381-> 2457 fps -> 994 fps at 1880 yards, 2172.4" of drop

But that is at uber long range and with a target bullet there seems to be a 120 yard advantage = 6% longer range.
I have a lifetime supply of Federal 200 gr and Nosler 250 gr partitions.
With those hunting bullets and the ranges I shoot at, the 338E has nowhere near a 6% range advantage.

Using the wrong powder. US869 gives 2675fps. But with a nice 30" barrel, that goes up.

Not quick load but I get 2791 FPS with 92 grains of H-1000 behind the 300 SMK in Lapua cases lit by federal 215M primers shot over an Olher 35. I use a 30" ABS carbon wrapped barrel COAL 3.860" feed from a Seekins detachable box magazine.

In a 24" barrel, you're not going to see any appreciable difference because you just don't have enough length to utilize the bigger case capacity. In a 24" barrel I'd probably go with a 338WM or 338RUM. Step up to a 28"+ barrel, and the Edge/LM blow the doors off the WM and RUM.

If I switch to 30" barrels and still the same quantified temp stable powders and loads:

338E 2720 fps
338WM 2563 fps

That bullet slows down from 2720 to 2563 in 130 yards.

With a 24" barrel there was a difference of 120 yards.
With a 30" barrel there was a difference of 130 yards.

If we start picking not so temp stable powders, that may work for targets but not hunting.

My buddy shoots an Edge with the 300 grain Berger at close to 3000 fps with RL-33


Of course the Reloder line won't get you any more velocity but who's checking....?

Reloader 17 will give insanely high velocities in 270 work up [2993 fps 150 gr 22" barrel], but by the time I derate if for temp, there is nothing extra in velocity and a whole lot of error from temp.

There is no free lunch with temp unstable powders.

A case stamp is just a convenient way to describe the size of a hole drilled in the rear end of a barrel.

All other considerations being equal, and they mostly are, size does matter.

But different size holes do benefit equally from a bullet with a high BC.

So drill any size hole you want to...it's your barrel.

Looks like diminishing returns of overbore.

A series of optimal efficiency cartridges;.., 223, 308, 8x57mm, 338-06, ..

And 338WM is already a hair overbore.
After than more gets you less. Burned up powder and barrels for almost insignificant improvements in velocity.

ClarkM,

You should get more than your projected 2563 fps with a 300 gr bullet in a 338 win mag using a 30" barrel.

I am getting 2550 fps with the 300 berger in a long throated 338 RCM and 56.5 gr of RL-17.

Have you crunched any numbers in a ballistics program? Sure the Edge and Lapua are faster but that high BC 300 gr Berger has impressive numbers at what most would consider sluggish velocities.

My deer hunting area is 4000 ft elev. I like to compare ballistics at 500 yd for wind drift. The above mentioned 300 gr bullet has a 8.7" drift in a 10 mph crosswind. Energy: 3139 ft/lbs. Barrel barely fouls, recoil is very tolerable and it is hell accurate. Only flaw is bullet drop BUT a turret solves that issue.

I think you should try the 300 gr bullet in your 24" 338 Win mag and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised.

I can understand more efficient, or less efficient. But how is "optimal efficiency" achieved?

As fisheries professor Ray Hilborn says about setting the optimum catch quotas, "Optimum for what? recreation? maximum sustained yield? maximum profit? pristine ecosystem?"

Each guy has got to decide if his 22-06 getting 200 fps more than his 22-250 is worth it.

I have designed wildcat, the 50CB that makes 53 foot pounds of energy with one grain of powder. That is roughly as efficient at 338WM, but much more efficient than other 150 gr 400 fps guns.

So yu r right. I left optimum undefined.
Each person can make that decision based on their priorities.
Doing that....

When I look at the cost of 338E and 338L dies, brass, reamer, and action in the 338L, I ask, "How much more range over the 338WM?".
And I am seeing little improvement.

One really needs to look at the realistic range he expects to shoot at. Any one of the 338's mentioned will get it done at 1000 yards or less, it just depends on how much mail you want the bullet to pack when it gets there.

For most of the shots a fella is going to take at game, a 338WM with a 225 grain bullet, at a realistic muzzle speed of 2800 fps or so, will be more than enough to get it done.

Seeing as how everyone is ballistic gacking on this thread, punch in the numbers on the 338 WM, and let me know what at what distance the speed drops below that of the recommended terminal speed the manufacturer recommends...its out there. Way out there. Out there enough, most wouldn't shoot at an animal that far.

The Edge and Lapua are just more of a good thing, packing more speed at further distances. They take a pile more powder, and shoot heavier bullets. They are not cheap to shoot.

Start at the real distance you want to shoot game at, and let that decide for you. If its a target, or dual duty rifle, then let that decide as well.

R.

A 338L action does not have to be overly expensive. Mine is built on a Rem 700 action.

Looks like you already had your mind made up before you asked the question. If you like the 338WM fine, I will stick with my 338LAI

Clarkm, I shoot my 338 WM quite a bit out to 900 meters. Maybe with the powders you guys get in the US you might be able to get more performance from your WM but the Lapua really shines with with heavier bullets, slow powders and long barrels. I just think the WM just do not have the case capacity to drive 300gr bullets fast enough for reliable expansion at real long range.

With my 28" barrel and 250gr Sierras I achieved around 2750fps and some guys get around 3000fps with Lapuas. That is quite a bit more, especially if you have that extra 250fps down range. I still do think that the WM is not a bad long range caliber as the 338 bullet still makes big holes and the WM cheaper to shoot than the Lapua. I would opt for slightly lighter bullets in the WM as the drop is a lot less to 900m and the extra velocity makes up for some of the wind drift.

Another plus is the reduced recoil. I fitted a suppressor on my WM and the recoil is about the same as a 308 Win.

Just for interest sake, a friend of mine bought the 338 Lapua Rem 700 Police. It has a 24" barrel and I get the same velocity with most bullet weights in WM and better accuracy It really upsets him, but I honestly think 24" for the Lapua is not the smartest choice ever.

I also think your barrel life in the WM would be pretty good as well.

Pieter

I think you need to think more about exactly what it takes to make a shot like that. First there are only a couple rangefinders I know of that are capable of ranging that far. None of them cheap. Further you have so many variables in making a shot like that. Its essentially a luck shot to shoot that far. The other problem I see is it seems like most people don't get as good of accuracy from the big 338's as they do from 7 or 6.5's. At that range you need accuracy.

What a bunch of crap!