Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 7x57 or 375 holland and holland for plains game?

Jack O'Conner suggested a 30-06 and a .375 would do it years ago. I replaced my 30-06 with a 7-08 as I got older and did not notice any less dead critters. It sure made my PH grin.

Many Americans like "crowbar" game guns and light as a "feather" rifles. While typical laddie would be best served with .30-06 occasional round of skeet or trap with Mossberg Ultimag and bunch of 3.5" shells would be good practice to get used to heavy gun recoil. The only downside is pump action of said shotgun so perhaps smoothbore 3" Marlin bolt shotgun would be a better choice.

I don't see the flinching problems apples and apples with a shotgun.

It's the moments of concentration with a rifle before the trigger is "pulled" that cause the thought of recoil that it is gonna hurt or "shock" you.

With a shotgun on clays it's so fast I don't think there is the same type of thought process or loss of trigger control. Heck maybe that's just how my brain works?

Jim,

Finn Aagaard said only about a third of his Kenya clients who brought .300 magnums could shoot their rifle well, and a Montana outfitter friend says 20%. The Montana guy is mostly guiding pronghorn and mule deer hunters who think the .270 or .308 they use back home for whitetails isn't enough for trophy bucks Out West.

Another Montana outfitter I know who packs hunters into the Bob Marshall Wilderness carries a .375 H&H. I asked if it was for grizzly defense, and he said, "No, it's to finish off the elk my clients gut-shoot with their brand-new .338's."

John,
Seems that there is at least some consistency with the guys doing this for a living then.

I may have been conservative with the less then 50% comment! The 300 mag in my somewhat humble opinion is probably responsible for more flinching problems then any cartridge in history.

When a guy shoots it good, it's a devastating beast of a cartridge. It is however equally devastating on both ends! Most guys can shot it good to great for a few rounds. I have not come across but a handful of folks that can pound away with it to be as good and comfortable as with a standard round.

I owned a 300 weatherby in my life, for about 3-4 years. Sold it 20 plus years ago and replaced it with this current 30/06. I'm not recoil sensitive, I also have a 9 pound Lott. I am not sure I could say this had I kept the 300 Weatherby and shot as much as I do the 30/06!

Dang it you two (John & Jim)....Stop!!! I'm not changing my build to an 06. I'm sticking with a 300 H&H MAGNUM.

I'd take the 7x57 with 175 gr Partitions, if i ever get to go it will be the .35 Whelen and 250 gr Interlokts.

Mike

I carry a 30-06 mostly in this stage in my life. I'm 45 these days and so far it has never left me in doubt.

Wise choice indeed. Looking at RWS/Brenneke 2013 catalog reveals five loads including affordable 'Basic' plus California compliant 'Nature'. What this means is one will be able to get ammo anywhere in the world though not 24hours a day like in 24hr Walmart in USA.

The recoil of the .300Win is very sharp, but its a killing machine.
I went ahead and fitted a small suppressor on the .300Win
The recoil is now equivalent to a .308Win and it absolutely destroys any life on the other side. Best piece of weaponry I have to offer as a rental.
Have a look at how small the can is I had fitted on the front. Weight of the suppressor is 9oz.

I will attest that shooting a rifle with a suppressor is a wonderful experience. It takes a good bit of the felt recoil away, and sure is easier on the ears. My kids used a 30-06 equipped with such in RSA and zero recoil issues. The suppression of the report also steadied them.

I'd hate to lug such a rig through the thick stuff all day, since it adds a tennis ball can to the end of the barrel, but I'd certainly have one for my rifle here in the States were it not such a hassle.

I like how PHs always assume that the clients can't shoot. I'm sure that there is a percentage who cannot so that must be fair.


While we're being fair, should I assume that;

All outfitters are shadey?

All guides are people that can't hold a regular job?

All booking agents are trying to get something for nothing?

That he will never spent as much on rifles as some of his clients spend on primers?

That being a control freak is admirable?

That if he has any decent gear, or decent ammo on his belt someone gave it to him?

That "This is Africa" forgives poor planning that would get a pump jockey ran off?

That all gun-writers will praise the advertisers products?

This painting with a broad brush is getting a little tiring.

As clients we are expected to give all these people the benefit of the doubt. It wouldn't hurt to fake a little faith in the client in the client once in a while.

I get what you are saying, and yes, you should assume that all outfitters are shadey, at least until you have satisfied your comfort through checking references, checking up on their history etc.
I don't think its a question of painting everyone with a broad brush.
Keep in mind that we see 100's of hunters come through, so for every one guy that you see on the range flinching at a caliber that he should not be shooting, we see 30 of them.
There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of when you have a flinch. It happens. I develop one every now and so often, and then I take myself to the range, give myself a good talking to, and try and sort it out. I don't like painful or sharp recoil, and don't understand how anybody can.
The hunters who handle big calibers well, and truly shoot them without any fear are few and far in between. I envy them. I'm not talking about when the heat is on. I'm talking about a guy who comfortably takes any rifle and shoots it effectively, accurately and consistently off the bench.
You will have to pardon us, Model70Guy, as we see so many of them, that we develop a notion to expect the worst.
I also believe by expecting the worst, it puts us in a position to see the signs early, and give us the confidence to address the problem.
Especially hunting in South Africa, you don't need a .378Weatherby for plains game. The good old .270Win, 30-06 , 308's will do just fine. If you can handle the .300Win, even better. Our animals are not bullet proof and will go down with any well placed shot. Due to the terrain, predators and their way of life here in Africa, maybe some of them have a tough streak, but a pill in the boiler room has proven to be effective.

Maybe JJHACK, can chime in here what his observations is regarding this point. The feeling that I get, and I hope that this does not stir the pot too badly, is that hunters feel they have a point to prove to their PH by shooting a large caliber. Shooting a Barrett 50Cal, and missing everything does absolutely nothing to enhance your reputation, I can tell you that. If you want to become a legend in camp, spend your time on the range, and practice with the rifle that you are thinking of taking on your trip. The best two shooters I have ever guided was a lady shooting a 25-06. She took from Kudu, Hartebeest to Springbuck. The other was a gentleman who used a 280AI who took from Blue Duiker to Vaal Rhebuck. They knew their rifles, and put a huge amount of time in on the range.
It was not the diameter of the bullet that mattered, it was where the placed them.

I am having a 300 H&H built also. I will not be changing my plans at all.

It will be real easy to load to 30-06 plus P levels or crank it up if needed.

If I am worried about recoil, I will grab one of my 30-06 improved rifles (aka 270 Win)

Marius,

This is a website forum filled with opinions. Everyone posting here has one. I'm not going to debate what I have seen for 22 years and over 400 clients. Men women, elderly, kids, handicapped, pro athletes, experienced hunters, and beginners all using different types of handguns, archery, muzzle loaders, rifles, etc. You live this every year just as I do.

The cross section of people and capability is pretty significant. My opinions are mine. I'm sharing them here. If somebody feels different about this I'm okay with that.

When I have a legal issue I ask a lawyer, a medical issue a doctor. Problem with the Bakkie a mechanic. A question about hunting I find an older wiser PH.

It's just common sense for me

Quickie question for Model 70 guy. Not meaning to stir the pot. How many times have you hunted Africa?

WOW, Model70Guy, I don't think anyone was saying that here????


CRS,Outstanding! ingwe, says the 300 H&H is "skookum"!


Jim, I for one appreciate that you do share your experience & opinions. They have never been misleading or false but have always been honest & experienced.

Huh?
That is why I asked for your opinion on the matter. Read the question.

Ja, ek verstaan

This was my answer

I understand.