Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Some Elk Numbers - S.W. Montana

Since the Wolf introduction hereabouts several years ago our Elk herds have been doing some very strange/out of the ordinary things.
One of the things they have never done before that they do now in the face of year round Wolf predation is they take up "residence" on private ranches near ranch houses for much of the year!
This makes for some excellent Elk "viewing" opportunities but Elk Hunting opportunities have suffered significantly.
On September 17th I had occassion to do some wildlife viewing of an Elk herd that had recently come out of the foothills/mountains and was rutting about in an open crop field - at times literally UNDER an active irrigation pivot.
On the 17th of September there were 472 Elk in this huge field and as of 1 hour ago there are now 720 Elk in that field.
Today I had enough time to do some further counting and note taking - and I thought the numbers were interesting enough to pass them along.
Out of that herd of 720 total Elk 44 of them were spike bulls and 27 of them were "mature" bulls - of those 27 "mature" bulls 12 of them were "raghorns" and the other 15 are 6x6 type bulls.
One of those bulls I would field judge to be at least 375 B&C points!
Last year before the Rifle season started here in S.W. Montana there were 1,800 Elk on this ranch and by the first of December (ending of Rifle season) I counted 2,100 Elk in this privately owned field!
This field/ranch is less than 5 miles from my home and I often pass by it.
This "situation" of the Elk now hiding on private ranches is currently and (unfortunately!) very common here in S.W. Montana!
The owner of the adjacent ranch complex took me for a ride through his fields the other day and he relayed how he had been born on that ranch 66 years ago and Elk NEVER came down to this valley floor except in a few of the harshest of winters and that happened WELL after the Hunting season was over.
He also relayed how when he was young on his ranch it was rare to even see a single Whitetail Deer on their property.
I counted 520 Whitetails in one of his pivots and 170 in another!
With less than 40 Mule Deer seen total.
We did not venture into his other 4 pivoted fields that day.
Just some numbers and food for thought on how things change over time and with changes in human behavior (more efficient irrigation/Wolf re-introduction etc).
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Pix?

Rancho Loco: I could take some tomorrow and E-mail them to's you.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Does that rancher let anyone hunt them?

Please do.

I'd like to see the pics posted here, if possible.

We have about 75,000 acres under center pivot irrigation in my county...I can't tell you how many deer I've shot feeding on crops while the system is running. They are accustomed to pivots from the day they are born...no big deal. It's just "rain" to them.

Tell you something else: Pivot systems make absolutely fantastic deer stands! If a pivot is swung around to a side of a field I want to hunt, I won't hesitate to climb up on it and hang my legs over a support and start glassing. They, naturally, are so used to the pivot, they don't give it another thought and graze freely around it without a care in the world. Case in point: my last buck I had mounted was a main frame 8 that scored 147 6/8". I had climbed on to the end gun tower on the pivot and watched 45 or so deer move out on me in the early evening, feeding on cotton (yes, cotton). I had does milliing around me all evening, 10-20 feet away, unaware I was perched above them. I even had a 125 class 8 pointer walk under my "tower" at one point. The one I shot came out to check on the ladies and I got him at less than 75 yards...had no idea I was there, in plain view.

Killed plenty of does on the ground, hiding behind the tires, with a bow or muzzleloader....

Schuett's ranch in Dillon, MT?

No pix yet..

I will report that I saw one last night...

Can someone explain why the wolves won't go on private ranches after the elk?

Cause they get fuggin shot and they learn quickly, like most canines.

Wolves will follow elk onto ranches, but mostly into timbered areas, where the wolves aren't nearly as likely to be shot at. But they don't usually follow elk onto wide-open hayfields.

I hunted a local ranch a couple years ago where a pack of wolves had taken up residence, and actually ran into them one day when we were driving a pickup along a road through some timber toward a dead elk one of us had killed that morning. But the pack never showed up on a bottomland hayfield, or even in an open park in the mountains--and according to the rancher they ate more cattle than elk, because cattle are easier to catch.

I can't take it any longer!!! Anyone who has watched SWMT knows that this "migration" stuff started before the wolf reintro! I won't go so far as to say wolves didn't aggravate it some. BWalker pegged it, if you have LOTSA $$$$ you are more than welcome to come & shoot an elk here. In my professional life I have necropsied several head of cattle killed by wolves farther away from cover than this elk herd. Remember we are dealing with an animal that does 30+ miles a night traveling. 3-4 to cover is a pretty minor jaunt. Just out of curiosity why haven't I been called to necropsy dead livestock by any of the proximal neighbors?
When I moved into the valley I now live in(1972)there were NO whitetails in it. Not so anymore. Anyone can come up w/their favorite reason. I certainly have mine. But that phenomenon started in the late '70's. Hmmmmm....
I would rather embrace change than waste the energy to fight it. Who knows, we might learn something.
Cheers

Laffin'.....I was waiting for that. For anyone wondering, this guy knows more about wolves than all of the members of this site combined, including me.

Thank you sir!



You are making my head swell!!
Cheers

Not that this anecdotal observation answers any questions raised above, but it sure changed my thoughts about where wolves will travel to get a meal.

I watched four wolves kill an antelope down in the Madison Valley, way out on the flats, two miles from any cover, in bright sunlight of a February afternoon. I had been seeing dead antelope carcasses and was writing it off to coyotes.

Given these ranches benefit from aerial control of coyotes, the number of coyotes is pretty low by the time I start wolf hunting in late January. What I watched that day might have been a better explanation for the antelope carcasses I was seeing.

I would have never guessed that wolves could catch an antelope out on a big flat, but watching it from a mile away, it looked like taking candy from babies. It went kind of like this.

One black wolf emerged from an irrigation ditch and started trotting toward a group of scattered and grazing antelope. Upon seeing his intention, this wintering group of 40+ antelope formed a tight herd and started running at a pretty good clip.

Anyone who knows the Madison has seen that almost every section has a fence around it. Seems the wolves have figured that out also, and how antelope will respond when they are chased by wolves.

Once the antelope herded up, they circled the square mile pasture a few times, with the wolf loping casually behind. I was smiling, thinking the antelope were just giving the wolf some exercise in the futility of chasing them in wide open spaces.

In the interim, three gray wolves emerged from the same spot in the irrigation canal and bedded down on a little knob in the middle of the pasture, watching intently. It almost looked like they had sent the black wolf out for "remedial training." Or, maybe the black one had drawn the short straw and it was his turn to catch dinner.

This game of chase when on for about five minutes. Then, as antelope often do, they tired of being confined and they lined out in a straight vector, the direction of which only the lead antelope can explain. That is what this herd did, with the black wolf following 200-300 yards behind.

When antelope hit a fence, they do not each find their own place to cross and all get across in a hurry. Nope, they bunch up and they all cross in the same spot, single file.

Seeing the herd was now bunched up at the fence, delayed by their habit of single file passage, the black wolf put on the burners. Within twenty seconds, he had closed the gap, dove into the back of the now bunched up herd, and with hardly any struggle, had an antelope by the throat and was dragging it off toward his mates.

Seeing their friend's success, the other three wolves rose from their beds and trotted over to enjoy the bounty of the day. Had I not seen it with my own eyes, I would have doubted it.

Maybe I am giving wolves too much credit, but this seems like a definite learned behavior where a very smart animal has learned how to use man-made landscape changes to their hunting advantage. And the antelope have yet to figure out a way to not fall into the trap. I suspect they know the antelope winter there and by mid-winter, they know it is easy to make antelope a big part of their winter diet.

Just a couple miles away are herds of winter-stressed bulls with big sharp antlers. I suspect wolves would rather invest the energy and take the lower health risk that comes with killing six antelope that have lost what little headgear they have, than to chance injury/death with 600 pounds of pissed off bull swinging swords from his head.

The ranch it took place on was one of the few where I did not have permission, or I could have easily snuck down the same irrigation ditch and had two hundred yard shots at four wolves feasting on a fresh killed antelope. I now have permission on that ranch and hope the scene repeats itself this winter. I would much enjoy taking advantage of a man-made structure, much the same as the wolves have figured out.

I now carry my video camera on all my trips. That segment would have been an amazing piece of footage, even if it were from a mile away.

I have no doubt that wolves can adapt to human presence far better than their prey. I doubt that event explains the question raised by the OP, but it is still one of the most remarkable wolf-prey interactions I have witnessed in my three winters of chasing wolves.

Which you guys prefer land and shoot? Or shoot from air? Those are the two,options alaska gives the wolves during predator control hunts. I prefer shoot from the air. Everytime the wolf lovers show up crying the blues. NPS asked the BOG to enact a emergency 1 mile buffer around the Denali NP. BOG told them to go take a hike.

Me too!!!!!!!!

That is a fascinating story Randy!

Casey