Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Positional Drill "Postal" Match

For the positional drill postal match, print out one each of these targets and post them up at 100 yards. This works best if you are using a setup that can be zeroed dead on at 100 somehow.

(They need to be printed out at 100% scale, and then they are still in shooter MOA, not true MOA)



The first round is shot with no time limits.

7MOA = 2 shots offhand
5MOA = 2 shots sitting
3MOA = 2 shots sitting with sticks
2MOA = 2 shots prone (can use a pack, but no rear bag, no bipod)



The second round is a repeat, but with a 15 second par time. I set a timer on my phone, if the shot isn't taken BEFORE the buzzer, it doesn't count.

7MOA = 2 shots offhand in 15 seconds
5MOA = 2 shots sitting in 15 seconds
3MOA = 2 shots sitting with sticks in 15 seconds
2MOA = 2 shots prone in 15 seconds



The third round is a "medley". One shot from each position, with a 60 second par time.

7MOA = 1 shot offhand
5MOA = 1 shot sitting
3MOA = 1 shot sitting with sticks
2MOA = 1 shot prone
...all in 60 seconds.


It's scored out of 20. To submit an entry, just post up a picture of the finished targets. Mark any hits that were either after the buzzer , or that are actually misses from a different target, they will not count.

Please include information about your rifle, optic, and load.


***I plan to address other aspects of shooting on future matches if the interest is there, but hopefully this will get things going.

Copied from the original thread...

Excellent. To partly demonstrate what's on this thread, shoot it exactly how your rifle is zeroed. If you're zeroed 2in high at 100 yards, or 3.5in high, or whatever, then shoot it that way. Don't rezero to 100 yards if you're a holder. Also start with the scope on the lowest power if a variable for each stage.


Carl,

Each stage is started from the standing for the timed drills, correct?

I've done it both ways (starting in position vs getting in position). Having to get in position under time as well is more useful, lets run it that way.

Nice! I hope I can get out to the range in time to shoot this so I can see how my scores stack up.
I need to do more real life drills like this. While I feel that I am a pretty decent shot, I know that I am not a true marksman and I really need to spend more time practicing and just plain shooting from different positions. Before I had a family I used to go through ammo like crazy, but now the time to go out and really shoot is hard to come by!
Thanks for posting this up.

Why start each stage with your scope set on the lowest power? Is there a magnification clause/limit in this shoot? IE: 1x, 2x, 3x, 4x, only?? What's up with this? I may be interested..

This evolved out of the dialing vs BDC thread. Most keep variables on low power until they need more and then turn it up for the shot. Using the rifle/scope setup how you actually hunt, instead setting it up just for this drill is the point. Doing so will start to show whether people's setup is optimum and will also start buding a data base of hit rates and times for different equipment.

Of course this is Carl's so it's up to him. These are just suggestions to make it more valid.

When I'm hunting in the thick stuff I run low power. If a shot opportunity is further out, I crank it up. 100 yards and I run 9x, just how I roll. I see no reason to run 3x on a shoot like this unless it's in the rules.. . I'd like to play... I'm leaving in a bit to help sight in a buddys rifle.

Misunderstood. You have to start with the scope on low power. Once time starts for each stage you can turn it up. Just like hunting. In other words you're changing the power on the clock.

Ok, that works. Thanks formidilosus...

Sweet Jesus, people can truly complicate things. As I said in the other thread, I'll be running it with open sights. Don't need no frigging scope for 100 yards.

This is what the targets look like printed out, although from the looks of it I forgot to scale them to 100% when I printed them, which just results in marginally smaller targets. The attached file is two pdf files zipped, because the ubb code won't let me attach a .pdf file.

I have no particular ax to grind in this. My idea is to practice how I hunt more so than to maximize performance on any particular drill. If you hunt with your scope on lowest power, then it would make sense to start that way. I don't hunt with my scope on lowest power, so I don't typically run the drill that way.

Have fun with it guys.

Cool drill Carl. Looks tough with the reloading under a time limit factor.

Very cool Carl. I was on a limited time schedule today because my friend had to get back to town by a certain time. I'll also be deer hunting next weekend and maybe the weekend after that. I look forward to seeing some targets. Like prairie goat said, the timed part of it will be pretty challenging.

"Sweet Jesus", I really look forward to seeing your targets...Should be some doozies..

Already printed out, I'll likely sling some lead tomorrow.

Cool deal Scott. Good luck. I wish my eyes were good enough to see the 5 moa target (let alone the 3 and 2) with open sights..

I'll try to run this week after work if I got time, otherwise next weekend, maybe.

I'm gonna try it first with my new 77/44 with peeps and then maybe the T3 SL in .308 with a fixed 6x...

Looks fun and challenging...

I'll be the first to look bad and post some honest targets. My hunting season starts next weekend so I'll be hunting and probably won't get to shoot the rest of these. These targets were shot with my 9.3x62mm CZ 550 American. Cold clean barrel, no practice shots. These aren't the timed targets, not enough time to do it today. Just figured I'd throw these out here for you guys to laugh at





Rifle specs:

One of my primary elk rifles.
Older CZ 550 American 9.3x62mm full length bedded by yours truly.
Single stage trigger, set to 2.5 pounds (non set trigger)
Gloss Burris FFII (American made) 3-9x40 with the ballistic plex reticle.

Have fun with this guys. The timed stuff should be pretty challenging..

I'm not using the smaller stuff, I'm taking a 5moa advantage. No way I can use a 2moa target with open sights.

tag

Thanks for posting BSA. That's certainly a more significant rifle than I have run it with, in part because I have nothing that big. I have found that additional recoil CAN be hard on my scores!

Geez, Logan is going to be a bit of a zoo until TDay...

Tis the season. I get my stuff all tuned up so I can skip the crowds, then friends all want to go to the range with me when it's busiest.

I hope it isn't hopping at dawn tomorrow...

I've had all my rigs ready to go for awhile now..

I might be able to get out there friday for this, and to mess with the AR, but after that, it's no go for me until after turkey dinner.

The range was surprisingly empty this morning. Found pressure for my friend Josh's new T3 7-08 pretty quick, accuracy was acceptable so we loaded 20 rounds up to do some shooting.

I shot the drill today with a T3 with a 1-8" 6mm Creedmoor barrel, loaded with 105 Hornady hpbt's at 3000 fps. It has an LRHS.







Was rushing when shooting off the sticks and it shows, had a few pretty wild shots, one that ended up on the offhand target. Had two shots at the buzzer that were misses, 15 seconds is pretty quick to fumble around with the sticks. Sticks aside I'm pretty pleased with the effort, but I'll have to be smarter with them in the future.




Josh has been a fairly typical hunter who sights his gun in each year and goes hunting, maybe shoots 40 rds total. I took him out a couple times, and he eventually talked himself into swapping the 7 Rem Mag for a 7-08 so he can shoot more than 10 rounds at a time without starting to flinch.

His offhand needs the most work, the rest of the positions he shot at least alright from. His lack of practice showed on the timed stuff, it was really too aggressive of a par time for his experience level. I told him not to rush, and we just made note of hits that occurred after the buzzer.

I'm not a stick man. Do I hafta?

I'm not really either, at least not for hunting.

Substitute some other semi-supported sitting position, like sitting with your rifle over an upright frame pack, or with a sling, something like that.

You could also skip that target, or shoot it from unsupported sitting as well, like the 5 MOA target.

I'm not either. Had to cut down a long set I made and they weren't cutting it. My new pack is slicker than I figured too.. Good shooting Carl. My hunting season starts this weekend, so no time to play this game .. I look forward to seeing more targets..

Da' tools.

I shot it with my 22-250 first. Vanguard action, Timney trigger, Talley LW's, Sako Classic. All shots were under or at time. I use the MK AR mod1 3-9X 40mm and it is a mil/mil setup. I either dial or use the mils for elevation but I most always use the dial for windage. It has held up well.

The range was dead and I was letting my sons' rifle cool so I shot it with the other rifle I use the most. It's a .17 Rem LVSF bedded in a McMillan Compact. Shilen trigger. It uses a mil/mil also. Straight 10X Bushnell.

The sticks are my custom 'Flave Precision dog killing sticks. I never use them for deer hunting but I always use them for dogs. The pack is an Osprey. I tend to use it more than any other.



Since they were all under time I just walked down and counted the holes and scored it out of a possible of five for each target. There's more than enough difference between the two cals to differentiate. Hope that's acceptable.



That 15 seconds goes fast and I was feeling rushed. Most of my shots with the .17 were right around the 12 or 13 second mark. The 22-250 was between 14 and 15 or right at the buzzer. On the 60 second stage I had about 15 seconds to spare for each rifle.



Travis

Nice 'flave.

Do you think that you shoot the 17 quicker, do you think you were getting more used to the drill, or do you just think that's a coincidence? Do you feel like you could accurately call your shots?

The 60 second stage does feel like you have all the time after the 15 second stages, should probably tighten that up. I need to shoot it with the GAP next time I make it out.

I do shoot the .17 better than most any rig but I wouldn't really say I shoot it quicker. Matter of fact, everybody seems to shoot this particular .17 better than most any rig. And the trigger on it is a little bit amazing.

But overall I think the higher score was getting used to the drill.

I was calling my shots pretty well. But not 100% with either rifle. There were a couple "WTF's" when I was counting holes. Especially in the offhand.



Travis

Finally had a chance to shoot this drill.

I used a Ruger 77 MK II 223, shooting Black Hills Reman 52 grain HPs. Scope is a Leupold 8x.

In the field I generally use a kneeling position instead of unsupported sitting, so I went with kneeling using a hasty sling for the 5 MOA target. The 3 MOA I used a sitting position supported by a field expedient log, as I�m not a shooting stick guy.

Here are the results:


Ended up with a 15/20.

Here is the rifle (Yes I know the sling is on backwards, I just threw it on there for this shoot so I could use a hasty sling in kneeling):



I got everything shot in time, though I was running right up against the 15 seconds during the sitting and prone. The misses to the left on each of the 5, 3, and 2 MOA targets were all done during the 15 second timed event. Think I psyched myself out there with the reload. Had around 15 seconds left over during the 1 minute drill. Overall I�m fairly happy, especially considering that I haven�t shot much this summer/fall. Definitely see room for improvement in the offhand, and really need to work on my reloads under pressure.

I�ll certainly be using this drill for future practice. Thanks Carl!

Nice shooting with the boat paddle there Billy. For your country I bet that 8x is a decent power to be stuck on.

Are you zero'd at 100 or did you have to hold under?

Thanks Carl. I really like the 8x for open country work. That particular scope has been mounted for around 20 years and stayed pretty much zeroed, despite some rough use.

The rifle was sighted in 1 inch high at 100, so I aimed low. Didn�t make much difference except on the prone target, which made it reasonably difficult to maintain utmost precision.

Anybody else have targets to post??

Just now seeing this; gonna have to find a shooting pard to time me!

Thinking my 6-250 is the perfect candidate!!

The 6-250 would be a great chambering for this, and a lot else! It's pretty much a twin to my 6 Creedmore.

I'm not keeping score on my targets. Just posting results, as this is great practice from field positions. I don't care for the height of my homemade shooting sticks, as I feel they were still a tad too tall. I just shortened them up by 2.5 inches, so we'll try them again next time. I shot 2 rifles this time so I could rotate them and not heat the barrels up as much. Target on the left was shot with my 7mm rem mag Winchester model 70 classic stainless with new Zeiss Terra 4-12x42 scope with RZ8 reticle in medium Leupold DD's, 162gr. A-max @ 3,050fps. Target shot on the right with ol faithful CZ 550 American 9.3x62mm and 286gr. Nosler partitions, Burris FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex reticle. Both rifles have good triggers set to 2.5 pounds.


All targets shot on time and in required positions. I look forward to seeing more targets. Where did Scotty go, he's still practicing with those iron sights???

Had some time to kill, today, so I lobbed about 15 rounds at the targets. I'm glad it doesn't take solid hits to kill time!
I need to put in some practice and get back into the swing of things before I shoot for score.

It's good/great practice. However, you don't need to put it in the heart of a trotting bull every time. Or do you??

Good thread and idea Carl. Hopefully more guys will post some pics of their targets. I know there are a lot of shooters here. Let's see them!!!

Not that many seasons are drawing to a close, it�s time for some winter shooting!

prairie goat, we've had our differences here, but I have to say you shoot very well. Hopefully more guys will participate in this positional shoot. It's a lot of fun racing the damn clock

Thanks bsa! You are a very good shot as well. I'd imagine it's challenging to recover from recoil and reload quickly with that 9.3. Good shooting.

I agree; would like to see more guys shooting!

This was a tough course of fire with the time limit; it's certainly great practice. I'll try and get out over the weekend to run it again.

Alright, here are some more targets I shot today with my 30-06 classic sporter and pre 64 model 70 270 fwt. Again, these are my hunting rifles. This is a great thread idea and it keeps me practicing my field positions. All shots fired within time constraints...:

30-06 classic sporter that I hunt deer and elk with. 180gr. nosler partitions, brown painted and bedded Tupperware with 1" pachmayr decelertor, cheap azz Zeiss Terra 3-9x42. This is one of my "go to" deer and elk rifles. As you can see, my stick shooting ability really sucked with this rifle!!! :


Pre 64 model 70 270 feather weight. Mcmillan hunters compact with standard fill and 1" red pachmayr decelerator, Zeiss terra with RZ6 reticle and loaded with 150gr. nosler partitions:




Figured I'd bump this thread up since it was a great idea Carl had. Sounded like there was some interest in this, but not too many shooters... Shoot some targets and post some pictures if you guys are out shooting!!

Finally shot this with a "hunting" rifle as rx'd. Did not have a printer but all circles are sized correctly. I started standing with rifle chambered safety on, scope set on lowest power. On buzzer turned scope up to 9x and assumed correct position.


Particulars:

Tikka T3 SL in 223 Rem

NF 4-16x (shots taken at 9x)



All shots made time. 3 misses.

Total= 17/20



Rifle-






Targets-

Great shooting formid. I knew you had it in you... That's a slick set-up too... I may just give this a go with my .223 next time out...

Not shabby! I want that scope...

Timed sticks has been the one that hangs me up most often, I just can't seem to make it happen fast and accurate. I ought to try it sitting from my tripod, for kicks. Haven't cleaned it, but have shot a couple 19's. Probably average 16 or 17, give or take a few obviously.

Somedays I think a T3 SL 223/7-08 combo would do everything I really want, and inexpensively. (As long as I didn't put 4-16 Atacr's on them)

It's definitely cleanable. I shot it cold with no dry fire using a pro timer and had lots of time left after each string. The two offhand was in just over 8 seconds. Will try it again tomorrow and see. I like it.


What sticks are you using? I used two hiking sticks with the wrist straps over each handle.


Have played with quite a few T3's (that exact combo as a matter of fact) lately and they all do well. All have been right at 1 MOA or just under for 10 rounds with little to no load development. The 308's shoot the 185gr Juggernauts fantastically.


The key with ATACR's is to get someone else to pay for them..... grin.

Stony point sticks on a hard surface, which is the problem. They're fiddly to setup, and typically need reset after a shot.

My have to try a 7-08 SL, already have the regular lite 223 w/ 1-8" twist.

I'll have to get my "Need cash 4 ATACR" cardboard sign ready and try and score one of the good panhandling spots outside Walmart...

Those hiking sticks must be meant for bigstick since we are supposed to be sitting while using them.... . Damn good shooting though, even with the improvised use of the sticks...The sticks really get me too, especially with the heavy kickers. Hard to get the shots in under time, with most just barely getting her done...I also noticed that some rifles like the sticks better than others. Shooting my classic sporter 30-06 with the sticks really shows what I'm talking about. . Still a good thread and more guys should play along...

I'd be interested to see how you're using the sticks as I have no issues with controlling the gun, bounce, etc.


I used carbon fiber adjustable hiking sticks (Black Diamond?), with the wrist straps looped over each handle. Doing so creates a "sling" for the forend to rest in and it is a simple matter of adjusting the angle of the legs for height. I allow the forend to rest on the straps and assume a modified sitting position with the offhand gripping the buttstock as you would prone or off a bench. Both elbows are braced upon a knee.

Probably would have cleaned it if the scope wasn't tipping the rifle over...

That looks like a right good set up for killing lots of things.

2nd offhand shot almost ate my lunch.

Good drill Carl!




Here's a practice target I shot in preparing for our annual Government Trapper's rifle shoot coming up in August. 3 shots sitting, 3 shots prone at 100 yards. Must use the same equipment we use in the field on the job. The 10 ring is 1/2". 2 minute time limit. I use an extended bipod for the sitting shots, and a rear bag for the prone shots.

I've worked out a pretty effective way to shoot accurately from a sitting position with the bipod, podloc, and rear support, using a pack.



My work rifle is no "lightweight". It tips the scale at 16+ pounds. Not easy to shoot offhand.

Very impressive!!

i don't think Biggs can top that one...

Very nice shooting Pat. I'd love to see you play along with the sticks and timed shooting. When I think about guys that can really shoot here, I think of you....Again, I'd love to see some of those targets that carl has posted that can be printed off and shot at. Thanks!!!!

I'll have to focus on shooting off the sticks next time I go out, my technique clearly has room for improvement. I use a very similar position to my unsupported sitting, offhand on the forend ( and sticks ) and an elbow on each knee. Got to get those sticks under control, maybe I'll try some ski poles too.

That's some pretty great positional shooting Pat! I've played around with a pack as a rear support in sitting positions, it seems quite steady. I'd love to get it consistently sub-moa like that.

I find that my offhand results are based on, in order of importance, my state of practice, the quality of the trigger, and the balance. My heavy guns are more "work" to shoot offhand, but I don't find that I shoot them any worse if they still balance alright.

Shot a work gun this time. Annoyingly I produced the same result- 17/20.


Particulars:

Colt M4A1 Block II
Vortex Razor 1-6x (all shots at 6x)
60gr Frangible



All shots made time, 3 misses.


Tot All= 17/20

Same sequence as the first time. Prone is the hardest as the gun/ammo system is 2 MOA and that gives me zero wiggle round room. And I straight hammered the offhand shot during the medley.

Carl, I had the same problems with the sticks. Mine are homemade and needed to be repositioned after every shot. Kind of frustrating and you can see that in my 30-06 targets. I also shoot with elbows on knees to get the best support. I'm also thinking my sticks are still a tad too tall....This isn't a good picture, but it's from the last time I shot this with my 30-06 and 270 fwt:



Crappy pic, but you get the idea... I'd love to shoot my 375 H&H in this event, but don't think I'd make time due to the recoil

Tag....

Back up guys. Carl started this a while back and it's a great shoot. I like to take my "new to me" rifles out and test function and accuracy in different field positions, more like hunting situations. I found out my pre 64 model 70 270 fwt's extractor was bad during one of these shoots. It was dribbling the case out, barely flinging it out of the way of the next cartridge to be loaded. This was over a year ago when I ended up buying a new extractor for the old girl. Today I took my sporterized m1917 out to test some loads and saw that a load I had laying around for my Remington 760 worked quite well, so I figured I'd give the Carl Ross positional match a try. I shoot this every once in a while and figured a few others might like to try it. With the time constraints, it can be damn challenging. Especially if you aren't accustomed to shooting under duress.... Here's what happened today with my other rifles "elk load" and a new rifle. Nothing special, rifle isn't a tack driver (per se) and I'm using the scope (American made Burris FFII 3-9x40 with ballistic plex reticle) that was on my CZ550 American that I sold to Geno (Valsdad) here on the fire. Rifle was glass bedded by yours truly and a Timney sportsman trigger was installed. I also re-contoured and refinished the stock. Bench accuracy of this rifle and load are right around 1.5 moa..:



All shots made time, with 3 misses... 17/20

I figured this would be a great thread to bring back in light of the recent "off hand" shooting threads. This is great practice guys. Play if you want...

I practiced today with my new to me AR. Bump this one up if anyone cares to do a little positional shooting before hunting season....:
Rifle with my crappy homemade shooting sticks. Same one's I've been using for years...



2 misses. All shot within time constraints. Score 18 out of 20:





Still fun practice. I generally try every new rifle on this shoot. I realize this is an old thread Carl started, but I'm sure he wouldn't mind if we keep it going. No winners or losers, just fun practice....

BSA, this is an old post, but, it's a fun, challenging means of practice. You may have been around long enough to remember the old "Poatal" matches. There were several different types of challenges/competition. An honor system, where we scored our own targets, and trophies and or prizes were given. It was a good time and great methods of practice. I still miss the "Poatal" matches! memtb

That sounds cool buddy. I don't remember those, probably before I joined. I printed a bunch of these targets and they are always kept in my truck, so when I get a new rifle I can try it out. Generally I can tell a lot by a rifle's fit and feel after shooting a few offhand targets. This positional shooting has always been fun and challenging to me. Glad Carl started this. The other shoots you mention would also be cool if we could start doing those again. It sure was a kick in the pants yesterday, shooting my new AR. I don't think I've ever gone through that much ammo with one rifle during a range session. Now I need to go out in the shop and load up some more...

Excellent drill. I started using this as the baseline to teach new hunters. Have gotten great results. So good in fact, that this drill has been added to the shooting tests that are used at work.

That's cool Formid. I'm glad I'm not the only one that likes the hell out of this one...

BSA, Just do a search from about 15 years ago. Look for "Poatal" match. The idea and spelling was originated by our friend JJHack! We had some really good shoots back in the day!!

Tag

Trying this next time out.

Glad to see this is still getting some use!

I shot it pretty often until I switched "home" range facilities. Now 100 yard paper is inconvenient, and steel to 1400 IS convenient, which has led to me not shooting this drill in a while (or much paper at all really). I ought to print it out and run it a couple of times for comparison for how I used to do next time I do a range day.

I do practice a modified version with the same concepts for dry fire a lot, using my match rifle and a bit smaller aiming points. 2 or 3 rounds each from standing, kneeling, siting, and prone unsupported. 5-4-3-2 moa for the aim points, 90-120 seconds. Was rewarded at the last big match I shot with a stage set up almost EXACTLY how I run my drill, tied on the high score for that stage with a couple other guys.

It's a fun drill wareagle. The way I see it is, it is excellent practice that gets me ready for hunting season. There's more to shooting than just off the bench (as you know). I love punching paper and doing this positional shooting, it gives me more confidence when the time comes to pulling the trigger on a critter.

Printed up the targets. This 100 degree heat can't last forever. Someday I will go to the range again.

I will never live down that misspelling! My goodness that's back when the origin of the internet began.

It's a kind of haunting ( although kind as it was )name for these matches now!

JJHACK, You need to start another one up. We have automatic spell check now days to help you out buddy... Now we just need help with our shooting... Ha ha....

Some of the "old-timers" on 24hourcampfire.com remember that typo with a smile -- you were a great sport (and you still are)!

Just for posterity, here is the link to the thread where you posted the final rules: The Birth of the Poatal Match MEME

John