Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Savage big bore.

I am currently desiring (translated as "needed" or "requiring") a big bore. I would prefer a 416, although will never likely hunt elephant or lion, so the 375 would likely be fine.

I really like my savage rifles. Mine and my wife's 7-08s will put bullets inside of previous holes at 100 yards, and my 300wsm will shoot inside an inch. I like Savage, though I never hear anyone else with a Savage big bore. don't know why.

I also want stainless synthetic. I love the looks of the african rifles with the wood and black barrel, but plan to hunt in alaska/BC and want the ss/syn instead.

This leaves me looking at a savage or a ruger.
The Savage Bear Hunter comes in a 375 as the largest offering.... BUT I talked with my gun shop yesterday and he inquired with the rep and they can easily substitute a 416ruger barrel on the bear hunter.

Questions:
1. What reasons are there why many folks don't buy Savage in a big bore?

2. When brown bear/grizzly and cape buff are the likely only hunts I will do that require a big bore, is the 375 or 416 the better choice?

rphguy,
Before I start I would like to state I know very little about Savage rifles. I've never owned one and probably never will. I'm a Winchester M70 man through and through. That said these are only speculations and worth what you paid for them...absolutely nothing!

Questions:
1. What reasons are there why many folks don't buy Savage in a big bore?

Offerings. Stevens/Savage has really never been in the big bore market. Three position Tang safety and a push feed action is probably the number one & two reasons why they never do well with serious dangerous game hunters and probably never will. Control Round feeding actions are much more popular...Mauser style actions.

2. When brown bear/grizzly and cape buff are the likely only hunts I will do that require a big bore, is the 375 or 416 the better choice?

This I will leave for the experts. I will say I have hunted everything that I hunt (deer & elk) with a .375 H&H. I hunt in grizzly country on a fairly regular basis. I've never hunted Cape Buff's and probably never will, but would love the opportunity. My rifle Winchester M70 & the 375 H&H cartridge I have a strong relationship, which personally I would use on the fore mentioned animals without hesitation.

I did go and look at Savages website to look at Bear Hunter. If that is what floats your boat. Buy one. Most PH's don't like brakes on safari, so I've heard. But it's your rifle not mine do do what pleases you.

I don't have any synthetic stock rifles. And only one in stainless. They just need to be properly made.

I don't "need" a big bore but I do like to find out for myself if a cartridge is magic or a dud.
I re-barreled a Savage 300Win Mag to 416Taylor. Stainless action and barrel, laminate stock.
I'm not a fan of plastic stocks and like the balance and stability of laminate.
I chased cow elk last year but never did catch up to them so can't give you a hunt story but knowing how a 45-70 works for elk a 416 seemed reasonable, not necessary of course.
I didn't care much for the factory 300win barrel with muzzle brake and the bolt-face fit the Taylor so why not.
It's not magic but it's not a dud!

Hi Bill,
The safety thing is no big deal to me. I like either kind of safety.

The controlled feed I do understand others preference. I just wasn't sure if it is such a real big deal. One thing about my Savage 300wsm on the feed. it is different than old staggered feed in that the clip narrows at the top to where only one bullet can be connected with. IOW, the stagger stops before it gets to the top of the clip and the one bullet is in the center of the clip. I don't know if I explained that well.
But this is, I guess, why I was asking. I know many demand controlled round on big bore dangerous game rifle.

the muzzle brake is an "on/off" brake, so you can have it on while practicing and off while hunting. Also, since I would have to special order the rifle with a 416 barrel, I could likely just order it without the brake. Might do that.

I actually prefer a black stock, but the camo is not too big a deal to me.

Thanks for your answers. Most people just respond about savages with "because they're ugly", which is silly. They are not. This one surely isn't.

I'm going to shoot a 375 and a 416 later this week to get an idea if the muzzle brake is something I could live without.

My main reason for leaning toward Savage is my experience with their accuracy compared to other makers. Of course, each of them have duds from time to time I guess.

thanks again.

Savage does sell rifles in 9.3x62. If you look on gunbroker.com they get posted occasionally. Somebody has been trying to sell one with a dark orange synthetic stock for about $500

for the record CRF on a big bore seems to be far more a hang up of Americans than most the rest of the world, hence the reason Mauser sells push feeds now......and most Americans have only been wound up about CRF for a relatively short period.....

Ok, I'll say it . . . they're ugly.

rphguy,
I hope when you shoot both of these this week that you compair apples to apples & not apples to oranges. In other words similar rifle weight. I looked and saw the Bear Hunter comes in at 7.75 pounds. That is in my opinion light...My personal 375H&H weighs in at a little over 10 pounds all dressed. (I have a little lead in her butt stock to balance her out perfectly between my hands).

Even H&H builds the 375 H&H to 9 pounds dry. http://www.hollandandholland.com/boltaction.php



rattler, I had no idea that Mauser sells push feed action now? I learned something today.



WiFowler, That's just mean!

Get the 338 hog Hunter for 400 and rebarrel it.

Savage used to make their Express rifles in 375 and 458...stainless metalwork with a laminated stock. I still see them for sale in the $800 range. The Ruger Alaskan has filled that niche in 375 and 416 Ruger....nice compact rifles with lots of power.

Well, I went to the gun shop today and my son and I shot a winchester 375 and a Winchester 411 Kbr?.
Neither had a substantial pad on the stock.

the 411 is a necked down 458 that is supposed to be more or less about like the 416ruger in kick.

Results? I didn't notice either being bad at all.
the 411 had a brake on it, but we removed it before shooting.
the 375 was a little quicker/sharper, the 411 pushed slower but harder but not really much different.
Seemed no different than 12 gauge magnum turkey loads.

I could see that the brake would come in handy while at the range, but totally not needed in hunting situations. I think the twist brake of the Savage will do just fine for that. I imagine that with the brake and the really good pad, the kick of the 416 might be no worse than maybe a 270.

Overall, I still like the Savage better.

I used to have a 411 KDF, and had about 200 rounds of ammo and dies as well. Good caliber. Phil Kuehne is still at KDF in Seguin Texas if you want to talk to him about it.

Thanks Biebs, but I only shot the 411kdf because they didn't have a 416 in stock and they decided this 411 would be very similar.

Still waiting to get a quote on the Savage Bear Hunter with the 416Ruger barrel. I don't know if it will be more since they don't offer it normally in the 416.

not real sure the Ruger Guide gun in 416Ruger is easily available now anyway.
It will be at least 2016 before it will be used, so no hurry. But, when you want something, you usually want it "now".

Phil Shoemaker had a good write up on the 416 Ruger in the Big Bore edition of Rifle. Pretty good reading in there. Good luck with your rifle research. If the Savage works for you and functions well, I can't see you having many issues with it.

I had and sold a Savage Bear Hunter in 416 Ruger, and I had a 116 WW SS Syn in 375 H&H. Both were fine shooting rifles. They were exceedingly accurate and fed well. The 116 Weather Warrior had a Savage version CRF. I've not seen it again in other Savages, however.

My Savage 300wsm and the wife's 7-08 Ladyhunter have what is called "straight-line" feed. the bullets aren't staggered at the top of the clip, but fed one by one to the center of the clip so that only 1 cartridge can be touched by the bolt.
I really like this feature.

Alas, my gun shop guy has told me the rifle I want cannot be ordered with a 416 from Savage. I don't really want to spend $1000 for the rifle and then spend another $200+ for a barrel.

I have plenty of time. Actually, the 375 is all I really need anyway.

I suppose I could build one from a 116, which is cheaper than the Bear hunter at the beginning and end up there, but I wouldn't have the fluted barrel or the "on/off" brake. Don't give a rip about the camo stock anyway, actually prefer the black stock.
Decisions. Decisions.

Don't forget Weatherby makes lots of dangerous game rifles. The Mark V action is a push feet.

The only jam I ever saw in a .375 was with a control round feed with round nose bullets. The guy had to switch to pointed bullets.

I love rifles that shoot < 1" 5 shot groups at 100 yards. I strive to get them to do that. But I believe that if your 375 or 416 shot that good, you would need to be a damned good shot to make any difference in the field with rifles that shot that well. You'd be as well off with a 2 1/2 MOA rifle if other things worked out as they should.
These other things become more important with such a rifle, IMHO..
For me it is handling quality such as balance. How the rifle fits with the clothes that you'll be wearing when you're hunting, ease of loading the next round, how the rifle reacts when a round goes off (does it jump 45 degrees?) How fast it is to get back on target, do the sights or scope line up exactly when you put the rifle to your shoulder? How easy will a round slip into the magazine if by chance you emptied the magazine?

For me such a rifle would be for Kodiak or grizzly and the next thing I'd be concerned with, especially if you're going hunting in drizzling rain and will be on a plane ride with a bear hide after the hunt would be how the rifle handles nasty environments.

The other thing about accuracy on such a rifle would be how it held it's zero. Which IMHO would be more important than sub-minute of angle at the range. Holding it's zero in Arizona desert or Alaskan Islands or Rocky Mountains.

If the answer for you is Savage, I hope that there are other conditions than sub-minute of angle groups that helped you make that decision.

Just my two cents

You may want to look at one of todays threads regarding the Howa( like WB Vangard) 1500. Price is good they don't have the "odd" Savage look, and they shoot well.