Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics BDC, mildots or Turrets.....?

I would, if I did.


Every rifle I use is zeroed at 100 yards. From the 10.5in M4 to the 338L. I used to do the +2 MOA deal while hunting and it works. It's a long explanation, but most miss high no matter the range and it's much simpler to dial or hold "up" for everything. Almost every thing I shoot is .5mil at 200 and 1 mil at 300 +/- a tenth or two.

If ya shoot high, when in your hand in black and white it says +13''. It has to be because you have no idea what 13'' low on said target is correct???

Take care, Willie

It depends upon whether the shot is taken consciously or subconsciously. If you have time, or feel that you have time and can consciously think through the shot, sure one should be able to visualize what "13in" low would be (though I have no idea why one would set a "zero" as such). However, if the shot is rushed subconsciously we want to align the object of our desires, with the only reference that we have... The crosshairs. Throw in the fact that we also tend to want to aim a "little high" because it's looks far, and you get lots of high shots.

Again, nothing trumps having the bullet land where the crosshairs intersect. 40 yards or 400.

QUOTE : " Throw in the fact that we also tend to want to aim a " little high " because it looks far, and you get lots of high shots,"


This was the part I really wanted to hear. And everyone should know, this is a human inflicted problem. And should not be blamed on the ballistic calculator, or the zero the shooter chooses to sight in at. Knowing and having the cheat card triumphs all bullchit. And as far as rushing. all my rushed shots have been inside 150yds. Which is usually irrelevant. As I have belly line or a little day light for reference insurance.


But all bullchit aside. Dad is eighty two, and still clover leafs his share on the bench. And will never change, as in the north country of Pa. His shots are in the magical 0 to 400 max. Which would falsely lead one to think it is long range shooting. My conditions are very different. And am thankful that approaching 60 their are newer mouse traps. ( laser range finders, and reliable turrets.) And as you know after 350. Where at the fifty yard increments and things start dropping like a rock. That is where school really begins. And as one of the other poster, maybe you said. "Center becomes real important to be exactly center". Enjoyed the topic!


Take care, Willie

I am pretty sure "our sniper units" made due with blackpowder during the Civil War. I am not going to base my hunting on techniques from 'Nam.

Just my opinion.

I carry most any centerfire with a 200yds zero but I have zeros from 5 yds to whatever 20 MOA gets me (usually 800-1100 yds) from that particular rifle. If I am trying to hit a 1" dot at 100yds I will have a 100yd zero on the gun.

A postal match sound fun but just shooting at 100yds doesn't seem like a good way to test the effectiveness of various trajectory compensation methods.

Aside from Formy's LDS I think he is pretty much spot on with his analysis of reticle compensation vs turret compensation for trajectory compensation. In my experience the ballistic type reticle beats guessing but falls far short of the turret when speed and precision are objectively measured.

Of course a custom Drop Compensating Turret is the most effective method of turret compensation.

No, it's not easier to hold "up" for everything. Sight in 2" or so high at 100 with about any reasonably flat shooting cartridge (or keep your turreted rig dialed a couple inches high at 100 while hunting), and there is no holding or dialing or anything except pulling the trigger, out as far as most big game is shot. There is also no worry about shooting over a big game animal's back with such a zero, as the mid range trajectory isn't enough to worry about.

I can shoot tomcats in the head at 20 yards or mule deer at 420 yards without ever touching a thing. And without a crazy ass reticle, simple duplex and 2 unobtrusive little dots. Fixed 6x w/LRD, the ultimate in simple for people like me who forget to dial before shooting.


Beyond 400-450 yards it really does suck though, and in a big way....grin

Would be a pretty easy head to head....

Set up two pieces of steel side by side.... and shoot one of them off the Mil-based reticle.... the other by dialing the dope.... alternate dialing/holding the first shot... and do it at random yardages from 350-700 or so.

You'll even have exact dope that matches your reticle (cause that's what you're using to dial and hold wind anyway).... and I bet dialing still wins.

Agree with Sammo�I just had the chance to shoot out to 400 yes with the two set-ups. A turret on one and dots on the other. At those ranges there was no real difference, but I remember from when I shot longer ranges, and would definitely opt for a turret past 400...

I don't even shoot anymore but a simple dot setup works just fine, just like a good pair of training wheels.....grin


400 yards is like mini golf to the LR shooters though.

Wind is the real mother. Duplex and a turret would work fine if not for that pesky wind. I was shooting at 1000 last weekend and finally dialed wind because it was steady and I figured out where it was moving POI by using the hash marks first.

Steady wind? Doesnt compute.

I took a spotter shot, made a note where it hit in terms of MOA by using my MOA reticle, and dialed it in. I could have held off, but it seemed to be consistent so I dialed. I don't usually dial wind though.

The week before the wind was changing constantly, and it wasn't a fun game of chase. It was anywhere from 1-4 moa at 1000. I kept guessing between gusts.

it was humor..Steady wind seems to be a myth when I shoot.

This is the deal. Inconsistent winds will baffle the best shooters on the planet.

Actually what nailed the coffin in running 200 or 250 yard on the turret when hunting was a miss high. 80-90 yards I could see the head and little more than about 4 inches of back on the other side of a rise. Had 250 dialed in and aimed center. Creased the the hair. Ran a circle and presented a full on broadside shot. That one didn't miss. Around then is when I also started using a 100m zero on m4's instead of a 50/200.


I've done it both ways. It takes more time to read this sentence than it does to decide whether to hold .5 or 1 mil. For that matter there's no reason that one has to do that.... High shoulder shoot everything and from muzzle to 300 or so it lands in the chest. For me and what I do day to day, it makes no sense to run the hunting rifles any different.

For a novice shooter, nothing beats a good range finder and turrets for any shot over 200 yds. The system has definite trainable steps to take and is easy to learn.

If a hunter is prone to buck fever and likely to forget his hold over/under, turrets are the perfect solution.

I will gladly admit, the limitations of the way I use a scope restricts my hunting shots to 500 yds.

But I will also maintain there is no faster way to get a shot on game from 300 yds to 500 yds than with a duplex sighted well beyond 100 yds. I like to find a good perch and laze a few land marks where game might appear, or a shot present itself. Then when a shootable animal appears I just slip into a shooting position and pull the trigger.

But to me, a target is just a target, whether it wears hair or not.

My elk rifle:


One of these days I will get a buck with this one, or maybe a wolf. So far just a few coyotes and a couple fox, oh and lots of whistle pigs.



And this one is only good for 300 yds on deer until it gets a new barrel. I loan it to the kids when season rolls around.



The 264 (2'nd pic) has a decent scope (6.5-20 Viper) with turrets. I simply have not found a need for them yet.

The 6mm-284 (bottom) has a Burris 4.5-14 with BDC. Preliminary investigations indicate that with a 300 yd zero the BDC marks will work pretty well at 400, 500, 600, and perhaps 700 yds. This bears further investigation.

BDC reticles suck. Gimme turrets and a duplex.......

A 308 zeroed for 200yd, with typical 150/165gr loads, will be two inches (aprox) high at 100yd and about 7-8in low at 300yd. Also, it'll be two feet low at 400yd. They made us memorize this in SOTIC ages ago and also the DOPE for a 500yd zero (that I've forgotten), which is how a lot of the US Army snipers rolled in Vietnam. Rick Boucher (NCOIC) was in a position to know, since he was one. The 500yd thing worked fairly well on a vertical human torso in the open, but it would never work for game.

Interestingly, the two inch underhold at 100yd is the reverse of the 2in holdover with an M4 at CQB distance. 100m zero on an M4? Not me, though I know a few steely-eyed killers who swear by it.

A long barrel and hot-loaded 155gr Scenars will flatten that 300/400yd DOPE out quite a bit.