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I picked up a Winchester Mod 61 at a gun show and got a chance to shoot some different ammo out of it last weekend to see what it liked.
After a half dozen different brands I found it liked Western T-22's the best. I only have the one box and I've had it for years. I called several gun shops with no success finding any. I don't even know if that brand is made anymore...does anyone know?
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Too bad you don't have more of it. In my experience, the Remington and Winchester target ammo being produced today isn't as good as it was in the past.
In fact, I'd be very surprised if the shortage and overheated demand for .22 ammo isn't causing the manufacturers to shave as much quality as they can get away with, and shove the product out the door.
Of course with the popularity of "mag dumping" and burning through a brick at a time, a lot of shooters wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't care, so long as it is relatively cheap and goes bang most of the time.
Just the reality of the times.
Paul
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Winchster makes some T22 and it isn't worth a crap. Remington might make some too and it's not much better.
Did you try any Wolf MT or SK match ? The higher grades of Eley usually shoot good for me as well.
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Winchster makes some T22 and it isn't worth a crap. Remington might make some too and it's not much better.
Did you try any Wolf MT or SK match ? The higher grades of Eley usually shoot good for me as well. Yep. I have shot a fair amount of the current Remington Target, and it's dirty and a fair number of misfires. Not like the old days. The only really decent US made .22 ammo these days seems to be CCI. Like you said, for serious shooting I stick with the imported stuff, in whatever grade serves my purpose. Paul
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I'm sure there's a lot of 22 target shooters that demand quality ammo, lets hope manufacturers aren't ignoring them.
I like to squirrel hunt with my .22's and head shots require ammo that will shoot clover leaf groups. Every gun is different so you have to experiment until you find what a particular gun likes, unfortunately this old mod 61 likes the old T-22 ammo, I hope I can find some more of it.
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Winchster makes some T22 and it isn't worth a crap. Remington might make some too and it's not much better.
Did you try any Wolf MT or SK match ? The higher grades of Eley usually shoot good for me as well.
Thanks I'll try that. I've got other guns that shoot the CCI standard velocity Ok but this 61 doesn't like it as well as the T-22.
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Don't give up. Even though the good old T22 is gone, there is decent stuff out there, and there might be something else that rifle likes. Have you tried Federal Automatch? Sort of a mid to high velocity, 1200 fps,some lots of which shoot quite well. It's scarce, but the local Sportsmans Warehouse had some recently. There is also the Mexican Aguila that is pretty good. SW had some of that recently too. My son has a Marlin 39A that is very picky about ammo, and he had good results from some Aguila he tried. They make different types and grades too.
Paul
Last edited by Paul39; 09/29/14.
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Sent you a PM about where to buy some good ammo from $80- $200 a brick. That SK Subsonic HP will shoot 5 shot groups at 50 yards the size of a squirrels eye, out of my CZ 453. I know $100 shipped for a brick sounds like a lot , but it will do me several fun range trips and a couple squirrel seasons. I don't just shoot it to see how many rounds I can put downrange.
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aguila rifle match
good stuff
cci small game bullet
good stuff
cci select lead round nose
i need to find some and give it a whirl
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Thanks for the help guys, I'll definitely try some of this other stuff. I'm an old guy and I've come to realize that life is too short to pinch pennys when it comes to what you really need.
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Be careful of labels vs. prices. That link to the Western T22 looks like the older stuff you favor. Some of the other Winchester T22 might be the newer, less desirable version. I try to keep pretty good tabs on current price trends, and what it is worth is a personal decision. As a ballpark, I'd say you should expect to pay retail about $25-30 per 500 for the garden variety bulk stuff, like the Federal American Eagle I just got from Sportsmans Warehouse. The 325 pack of Automatch I also got from SW was about $18-20, IIRC. I passed on some Aguila at about $8-9 per 50. For some of my shooting, the lower grades of imported target ammo like Eley Target at about $5 per 50 fill the bill. Moving up, Eley Club is about $8. Some of the Mexican stuff is linked to an association with the British Eley brand. Eley Sport is made in Mexico, and some of the Aguila seems to be Eley primed. Also in the $5-6 range is SK Standard. Another import in the same price range is Norma TAC-22, both German. Some of the Euro brands seem to be made in the same factories, but with different brand labels, e.g., SK=Wolf, Norma=RWS, or so it appears. Headstamps are the same. One thing that is happening to the market price of .22 ammo, is that the scalper price of cheap US made bulk ammo is approaching the cost of some of the lower grades of imported ammo, which makes the latter a better deal. $50 to as much as $80 for a brick of bulk US made .22s is insane, IMO, but some are asking and others paying that price. Here's a pic of British/Mexican cooperation, and with a web address of EleyUSA.: ![[Linked Image]](http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m88/Paul39/010_zps3ba1121e.jpg)
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Be careful of labels vs. prices. That link to the Western T22 looks like the older stuff you favor. Some of the other Winchester T22 might be the newer, less desirable version. I try to keep pretty good tabs on current price trends, and what it is worth is a personal decision. As a ballpark, I'd say you should expect to pay retail about $25-30 per 500 for the garden variety bulk stuff, like the Federal American Eagle I just got from Sportsmans Warehouse. The 325 pack of Automatch I also got from SW was about $18-20, IIRC. I passed on some Aguila at about $8-9 per 50. For some of my shooting, the lower grades of imported target ammo like Eley Target at about $5 per 50 fill the bill. Moving up, Eley Club is about $8. Some of the Mexican stuff is linked to an association with the British Eley brand. Eley Sport is made in Mexico, and some of the Aguila seems to be Eley primed. Also in the $5-6 range is SK Standard. Another import in the same price range is Norma TAC-22, both German. Some of the Euro brands seem to be made in the same factories, but with different brand labels, e.g., SK=Wolf, Norma=RWS, or so it appears. Headstamps are the same. One thing that is happening to the market price of .22 ammo, is that the scalper price of cheap US made bulk ammo is approaching the cost of some of the lower grades of imported ammo, which makes the latter a better deal. $50 to as much as $80 for a brick of bulk US made .22s is insane, IMO, but some are asking and others paying that price. Here's a pic of British/Mexican cooperation, and with a web address of EleyUSA.: Isn't that the lowest grade of Eley? Never shot that but I would think it would be barely above american bulk. I usually shoot Eley Club and I'll still get a flier out of the group about every 20 rounds or so. I'm talking 1/4" at 50 yards out. It's still minuet of squirrel head but not in the single hole group of the other 4. I shot competition in the 80's and always used Eley Tenex. It wasn't that it would shoot a better group than some mid grade target ammo, but it was much more consistent over hundreds of shots. If you got a flier with the Tenex, you knew it was you. With the mid grade ammo, you would do just as well unless you happened on one of those fliers that couldn't be explained, and they happened consistently with the lower grade ammo.
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Exactly, and you are correct about Sport being the lowest grade of Eley, and possibly in the same league as the cheap US made stuff. One point being that it makes no sense to pay upwards of $80 per brick of any of that.
I have seldom gotten into the Tenex stratosphere, except those rare occasions when I get to a high level match, like long range silhouette, "mini-BPCR" out to 200 meters. It's at extended ranges that the differences in .22 ammo really become apparent.
Off to the range this morning to put some of this to the test.
Paul
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It's at extended ranges that the differences in .22 ammo really become apparent.
I'm sure it does. My competition was limited to 50 and 100 yards. Even there inconsistent ammo will cause you an X and most competitions were won or lost by a few X's.
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I'm an old guy and I've come to realize that life is too short to pinch pennys when it comes to what you really need. I agree with that..
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It's at extended ranges that the differences in .22 ammo really become apparent.
I'm sure it does. My competition was limited to 50 and 100 yards. Even there inconsistent ammo will cause you an X and most competitions were won or lost by a few X's. Isn't that the truth!
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Tried some Win T-22's in my fast twist 10-22 barreled rifle today, they won't feed for nothing!
Guess they will remain for the bolt guns.
Mike
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Tried some Win T-22's in my fast twist 10-22 barreled rifle today, they won't feed for nothing!
Guess they will remain for the bolt guns.
Mike That Federal Automatch is medium decent and should work in the auto.
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Thanks,
I have some of that to try this was the first range session with it on paper.
I have some Colibri(sp?) and Rem Subsonic and Rem match made by Eley, some more bulk pack Federal without copper I hope is like some of the ones I shot on this trip. The copper washed (36 grns I think)shot 3" at 50 yrds, the plain lead (40 grn I think) shot 1.5" at 50 yrds.
This trip was to zero the scope and see how the T-22 shot in it.
Mike
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