Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Not Sold on the 120 NBT

I've had Nosler AB's do that several times out of a 300 WSM. They're supposed to be tougher bullets than BT's but they'll still explode. A few years ago, I got a low hit on a deer. I was just under the heart enough for it to hit the sternum. It was NOT a gutshot, not even close, but it blew up and ruptured the abdominal wall, letting the stomach fall out on the ground as it ran. The entry hole was just behind the elbow and it was straight from the side but the damage extended back 18".

Got it.

What if you slowed the velocity a bit? Or went with a 140gr? Think the results would be the same? Just curious.

M+

That's because it isn't. Why ON EARTH folks keep using bullets like this when there are T/TTSXs available or hell even Hornady Interlocks and of course Partitions (provided they shoot in your rifle, or course) is beyond comprehension sometimes.

Edited to add: The only BTs I've ever used are 50gr 22cal in my 22-250 and in that application, they are great bullets.

I'm not sure what would happen with lower velocity. It might work, but I've had uniformly pleasant experiences with TSX's in other calibers, so I'm very likely to go that way.

For years, the only reports about NBT's that I had read were poor. Then I started seeing pieces about how some of them had been "toughened". And the 120's were singled-out for their toughness, even on elk-sized game, and at .280AI and 7 Mag velocities. They were available and cheap when I came into a 7-08, so I bought a box for load development, and I liked how they shot. Given the good on-game performance reports the bullet was getting, I felt good to try them on hogs.

I only started this thread to see if others had experienced explosiveness with recent production runs of the .284 120 grain NBT, because it wasn't what I had been hearing about.

FC

Well dang

I have shied away from ballistic tips after some bad experiences when they were first introduced. but like you FC, I decided to try some 120 grain in my 280 because of all the positive press they were receiving here. They are accurate but I haven't tried them on deer yet.

guess I'll go ahead and give them a try. but this thread is disappointing.

also bought some 95 grain 6 mm to try in a 243 based on comments here at the campfire.

I guess the worst that can happen is a little lost meat.

I have killed several deer with the 7mm 120 gr ballistic tips and have never seen anything like that. I don't have a number but I have used them several years and killed from 1-3 deer a year with them depending on if I kill some with bow or muzzleloader. miles

I used them on 2 deer a few years ago. Neither had the damage shown on the hogs. I had them going 3200 fps from my .284 Win. The first deer was ~35 yards away and up hill from me. Shot behind the shoulder and low the deer kept going like he wasn't hit until he ran into a barbwire fence and died. On skinning him my F-in-L found just the jacket in the opposite shoulder meat nicely mushroomed. Damage to any meat was minimal.

Next day I shot a deer at 281 yards in the shoulder. It failed to penetrate the shoulder and turned left up threw the next and out the head on the opposite side. Deer was looking at me when I shot which explain the head exit. I haven't used the .284 since so haven't used the 120 BT on another deer. I little leery to after this shot, but both ended with dead deer.

The NBT argument has been ongoing for years. The newer ones, reportedly, are tougher. The 120 was reported to be especially tough.

My personal experience with NBT's has been great at the range, sorta jaded in the field. Some swear by them, others swear at them.

To me, there are so many good/great bullets out there, I don't feel compelled to stick it out with NBT's.

Just saying...

DF

My experience is that sometimes there's more damage with the same bullet and load than on other occasions. Have even seen it with TSX's on occasion, though the odds are better for less meat damage if we use bullets that lose less weight (and don't stick 'em in the meat, or into bones which will act just like bullet fragments).

The tougher Ballistic Tips have a higher ratio of jacket to core, and often the core is harder as well. This doesn't mean, however, that the lead core won't fragment. In fact it does, which is why Ballistic Tips typically kill very quickly with lung shots.

But I also must add that I haven't seen that sort of damage with 120 7mm BT's. The last animal I saw shot with one was a Texas whitetail buck my hunting partner killed at a little over 100 yards with a 7mm-08. The buck was angling away and the bullet hit the rear half of the ribcage on the right sight, ending up in the left shoulder. Only a few ounces of meat was lost.

A couple years ago I shot a doe whitetail here in Montana at about with a .257 Roberts, using the 100 BT at 3050 fps. She was quartering to me and the bullet hit the shoulder joint, ending up under the hide at the rear of the ribcage. Lost some meat around the joint but not all that much. Have seen just as much meat damage from the 100 Tipped TSX with similar shots, so part of it just variation in results.

They perform great at half the price.

When you push them at max velocities and then take shots at short range, it's NOT the bullets fault

Shoot them BEHIND the shoulder and you ruin very little meat

I still use Ballistic Tips, but not at speeds over 2,850fps or so. In medium to heavy for caliber weight ranges, they are a great deer bullet. Even so, I'd not put them into a shoulder I planned to eat. Like most other Hornady, Speer, and Sierra cup/cores, they beat up lungs just fine.

I'll hopefully see how the 120gr 7mm version does at reduced speeds this weekend. My daughter will be using them in a Blue Dot load in her 7mm-08 for our youth season opener. Should be running about 2,400-2,500fps. Really fun to shoot, as the top of the midrange is +2" at 100yds and it is only -2" at 200yds. Very mild report and recoil. The 140gr BT at 2,100-2,200fps has killed well for her to 100yds, but I was looking to give her a bit more range as her shooting abilities developed.

JPro, I think that is about the perfect use for the 120gr 7mm. They worked well for me back when I used to shoot the contender 7-30 waters at precisely the same speeds.

Very good to know. I thought that Waters-style performance would be more than adequate to kill a 100-150lb whitetail. Has been so far! With as many hogs as we have this year, she'll likely see how they do on those big rascals too.

I must get all the good NBT's.

Congrats on the pigs FC.

It appears your unhappy with the performance for a hunting bullet. That should be your all you need for your answer. If it were me, I would save them for varmits or target practice and move on to a different bullet.

I have limited experience running 140 grain BT out of a 7 rem mag, 1 grain over max load shooting deer has resulted in some blood shot meat but still nothing like you got with the 7mm-08! If you like the BT, I would try the 140's to see if they give the desired results. I have a hard time using a premium bullet in a 7mm-08 but I'm cheap like that.

Testing Ballistic Tips, both for Big Game and the Varmint Weight ones, I have found BOTH types seem to be a totally different performance at above 2700 fps or below 2700 fps....on the impact velocities...

Was highly surprised at the varmint bullets, poking clean holes thru manzaneta when their MV was 2500 fps or less....and not exploding like they do at higher MVs...

also heard the 300 Weatherby crowd, talk about 180 grain Ballistic Tips are a lousy bullet for elk hunting under 200 yds, but the same guys think it is the best bullet under the planet on elk at 400 to 500 yds...

Every bullet type and style have a window of opportunity on which they will perform....a ballistic tip is a better choice for low impact velocities, than say a partition... while a partition is a better choice for high velocity impacts...the latter being a tougher bullet....

I think as Passport stated, try slowing down the MV and impact speed....some people are fans of 'speed kills'... I am more under the group's philosophy that prefer shot placement and knowing your bullets performance capabilities and parameters...

I think any of us who expect a bullet to perform the same at 20 yds and 500 yds, are being a little unrealistic...( not mentioning any names on that statement, just a general open ended observation)...

if that 120 grain ballistic tip isn't working for ya, try going a little heavier bullet, like the 140s or 150s, try a partition if you desire the fastest MV you can get out of your rifle...

or slow your MV down....

my choice for what type of service you are explaining, would be the 154 grain Hornady SP or RN.... or a good old Speer 160 grain Mag Tip...
out of your 7/08...

You make my earlier point, only better.

Velocity is a big consideration with bullet choice. As I start working with the 26 Nolser, bullets become a critical factor. A bullet than may work well in my 6.5x55 probably won't be the one I would want for the much faster round, or the one I'd use in my 6.5-284. Ya gotta match bullet design with velocity and intended use. Thankfully, we have better choices now than in the 50 years I've been reloading and shooting.

Being an ole fart has to count for something...

As they say, never mess with an old man. He'll take you out with his experience and treachery...

DF

I am a fan of Barnes, have been since 1992, so there is my 'disclaimer'.

To those who tout Barnes are to expensive, I have to ask, how many shots at game do you get every year? Even if you shoot 50 head of game a year, one box of Barnes bullets will cost about $35 ($80 if you buy them loaded).Let's see, $1.60 (for loaded rounds) per animal.

The bullets are the absolute cheapest part of the hunt (cheaper than the bottled water some guys buy), and they have the most important function to perform.

To others who suggest reducing the speeds, I ask why, when a Barnes can hold up to Weatherby speeds at very close range and still expand at 400+yds, why reduce the speed?

As has been said, shot placement is always crucial, but, the bullet still has to do it's job when it gets there, and that means penetrating to the vitals, even when the shot has to go through big bones and heavy muscle.

To the OP, use a 120gr TSX and drive it fast. You will be pleased with the results, on paper and game.

Yeah, I don't see complaints about bullet costs being pertinent for hunting. Maybe for plinking, but not for hunting.

Considering what hunting costs, bullet expense doesn't even show up on the radar screen...

So, shoot for performance irrespective of bullet cost. Hunters generally don't shoot enough rounds for bullet cost to become a deciding issue.

IMHO.

DF

While I agree that the bullet cost is not a huge factor, I'll say that not much works better on lungs than a Ballistic Tip. If that's where I'm about to stick a medium-velocity .277 to .338cal bullet, I'd prefer a BT over a Barnes any day.

Shooting shoulders? Quartering-hard presentation? A sturdier bullet may very well be a better choice, regardless of any cost difference. Barnes bullets work well there. Cost does not play a huge role in my choice for a big-game hunting bullet in a given instance.