Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles You 264 guys

I am running 67.5 grains of RL25, Nosler cases, CCI250's and the 140 BT or AB and getting 3180 BT and 3200 AB. Both loads shoot very well out of my Model 70. It is probably my most consistently accurate rifle, but it took a little tweaking to find "the spot".

I've got a custom .264 built on a M700 magnum long action, 26" Lilja barrel, #4 contour, 3 groove, 8 inch twist. H-S Precision stock, action glass-bedded and barrel floated.

Load: Nosler Brass, 68.0Gr Retumbo, 140 gr NPT, Federal magnum primers. MV = 2780 fps...... slow....

Am I doing something wrong? I was thinking 3000 fps+ with that amount of Retumbo. Accuracy is great, but I can shoot a 140 grain bullet faster in my 7mm-08.

A couple of you guys have mentioned having a "slow barrel"... What does that mean, exactly?
Thanks!

140 partitions have a lot of bearing surface. You need slower burning powder and a boat tail with less bearing surface if you want speed.

With WC 872 I was getting 3150 with the 140 partition.

Thanks - I knew that NPT had a greater bearing surface than a VLD, for instance, but I was thinking 68 gr retumbo should be getting me closer to 2950-3000. I'm not just looking for speed, but why shoot a 264 win mag at less than 2800 fps, right?!?

I'm basing that ~3000 fps estimate on the load manuals, articles on 264, forum users' previous experiences, etc. I know each rifle is different and therefore no one else's results should match mine. BUT, 68 gr Retumbo seems like it results in an avg of 2950-3100 fps for most 140 gr bullets, NPT included.

Since I've seen no pressure signs whatsoever, I'd consider slowly increasing the load in 0.3 gr increments up to 69.5 or so, and check velocities for each. Any other recommendations?
Thanks

RL-33

Rick,

Have you tried the 142 Matrix?

DF

Reading some of the other posts regarding pressure signs, etc. I've come across the idea that muzzle velocity and chamber pressure correlate, perhaps directly so? Is that true?

Mule Deer posted once that a chronometer was probably as good of an indicator of chamber pressure as anything a hobbyist loader could use.

So, even though I am 4.5 grains retumbo OVER the Hodgdon load data for a 140 gr NPT, my MV is ~320 fps slower.

Does that mean, all other things being equal, that I could expect to be able to safely increase my charge until my MV matches the factory load data (3026 fps)??

This year I'm running 67g 7828 and a 129g ablr. It only goes 3280 fps but it's grouping pretty well at 3/4 moa on average.

Bb

I was at the range on Tuesday testing 6 different bullets in my 264WM with a Shilen 30 inch barrel with 6 grooves, 1 in 8 twist and here is the results.
160gr Woodleigh PPSN, 73gr H570, 3 shot average 3261fps
130gr JLK VLD, 73gr H570, 3 shot average 3226fps
100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, 72gr H4831, 3 shot average 3709fps
100gr Sierra HP, 72gr H4831, 3 shot average 3691fps
95gr Hornady Vmax, 72gr H4831, 3 shot average 3687fps
85gr Sierra HP, 73gr H4831, 3 shot average 3880fps

Use caution if you try these loads they are pushing the limits. The H570 is no longer made. I was lucky enough to find 3lbs and the heavy bullets like it.

You might want to buy some factory ammo that has a published fps on the box and shoot them through the chrono to make sure its working right and check your powder scale to insure it is in proper adjustment. 4 grains is a lot of powder above the load you want to use.

Thanks - going back to a chrono with Nosler Custom Ammo is what I'll do next. I'm confident the reading is correct as I shot at 300 and 100 yds and ran the ballistics calc backwards to determine speed based on trajectory. The calc told me something less than 2800 which I didn't believe, so I shot it over a buddy's chrono and confirmed it was correct (4.25" high at 100, 1/2" low at 300).

I pulled a couple bullets and remeasured the powder as well. 68 gr on the dot.

If the Custom ammo comes out slow (3100 is factory spec) what should I suspect as the faulty variable?? Something in the rifle?

AG74
I shot some 125 Nosler custom ammo in a 24" barrel and got 2935 fps. Nosler says 3200 fps on the box. 75 gr. of H50BMG and a 140 Hornady did 3050 in this rifle.

140 Speer Alliant RL-25 64.0 3,130
Remarks: accuracy (inches): 1.04
140 Speer Norma MRP-2 65.0 3,114
Remarks: accuracy (inches): 1.66
140 Speer Accurate Magpro 65.0 3,207
Remarks: accuracy (inches): .87
140 Speer Hodgdon Retumbo 65.0 3,171
Remarks: accuracy (inches): 1.70
140 Speer Ramshot Magnum 69.0 3,240
Remarks: accuracy (inches): .88
130 Barnes TSX Accurate Magpro 66.5 3,326
Remarks: accuracy (inches): .84
120 Nosler Ballistic Tip Alliant RL-25 66.0 3,440
Remarks: accuracy (in

Read more: http://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...Caliber%20Reloading%20Data#ixzz3Fhiwobgq

This is from Mule Deer in Handloader mag.

If the factory ammo comes out that much lower than published data then I would be looking at having the rifle checked by a gunsmith. Do the casings look normal after firing? Check the actual bullet weights of several bullets to make sure you don't have a box of culls. Is there a chance that your powder may have taken on some moisture? That would change the burn rate. Or maybe a bad batch of powder? These are just food for thought on the problem.

Why does everyone seem to always go with the chrono data, never questioning the device itself?

DF

Just because the rifle is slow, does not necessarily mean there is anything actually wrong with it. Especially anything a gunsmith could address, short of a new barrel. You could well have a perfectly good chamber, but on the maximum end of spec, coupled with an excellent smooth barrel also on the maximum end of spec diameter.

In a perfect storm scenario, one could couple the previously mentioned factors with lighter than normal brass.

If the rifle shoots accurately, the rest is just a matter of load development.

Which primer are you using? I ALWAYS use magnum primers in the 264. A hotter primer could gain you a few fps.

While many 264 owners swear H870 was the Holy Grail of powders for the 264 with 140 gr bullets, it is too slow for my old Win 70 classic.

My rifle performed well with H1000. 65 gr of H1000 gave 3050 fps with the 140 gr NP. While it required 67 gr of H1000 to make 3000 fps with the Sierra 140 SPBT.

Magnum, while being very similar to Retumbo in burn rate, is a very dense powder and easy to get large weights into a case. It also feeds very reliably through a powder measure. My rifle took 69.5 gr of Magnum to make 3000 fps with the 140 Sierra SPBT. 72.5 gr of Magnum produced 3150 fps with the 140 Sierra in my rifle.

I think that either H1000 or Magnum will get you to 3000 fps with your bullet of choice. Magnum will probably get you to 3100 fps. With the consideration that H1000 is the lesser temperature sensitive of the two.

If you were working with bullets less resistant to engraving than is the 140 PT. I would also recommend trying some H4831 over the chronograph. H4831 might well be a good choice in your rifle with a 130 gr or 140 gr accubond.

When I used H4831 with the 130gr JLK VLD I started with 64 grs and reached 3105fps, and worked up to 67grs at 3249fps So this is a good powder for the 130gr bullet.

Idaho shooter, thanks for the ideas. The barrel is essentially brand new - less than 100 rounds down it. I did the Lilja recommended break-in procedure as well. The gunsmith cut the chamber to min spec. I don't know about the barrel spec diameter, but since its a Lilja custom 6.5mm barrel, I'd imagine the tolerance is tight.

the rifle is extremely accurate - first three rounds after sight-in touched at 100 yds (Nosler Custom ammo 130 gr AB), and I've shot several 3 rd groups inside of 1" with my handloaded NPTs, usually 3 rounds touching.

I am definitely using magnum primers, although right now it slips my mind if they were Winchester or Federal. I'm fairly positive they are the Federal mangnum primers.

I used a buddy's Retumbo, so I suppose it could be a bad batch, or have gotten some moisture. It took me months to find Retumbo on the shelf around here. I've considered H1000 but the burn rate is faster than Retumbo, but not by much I don't think.

I like the idea of 140gr ABs vs the NP, so will likely scour the earth trying to find some. I have a box of 130 ABs, and will work a load for those as well.

Thanks again

AG

That same 125 ammo goes 3140 in a 27" Lilja barrel I put on another rifle. I have used H1000 with 125 Noslers and get 3200 fps in the 24" barrel and 3300 fps with the 27" barrel. I use a lot of WC872 with 130 and 140 gr. bullets. I did pick up a jug of Rl33 to use but have not used any yet so have nothing to report.

When working with a barrel which produces less velocity than predicted by reloading manuals, and I have had several, I find better results by moving to a faster burning powder. (within reason, I am not suggesting 3031 grin)

Keep us posted on the RL 33 I hear it is a good choice for the 264WM. I want to try some but can't find it in the stores.