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Dwayne, correct - owned 3 '96 in past deep 7.5 ROT.

It's why I used a 4 groove Bartlein on my last two 260s wink

Deep grooves indeed affect jacket integrity. Not sure how much that affects expansion/retention, but 7.5 cranks out 288,000 RPM VS 270k with an 8, and that might matter more. Tests might clarify.

No doubt a sharp petaled Quick spun mono does admirably on game wink

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Hopefully that was of interest to you or someone out there this afternoon sir.

Dwayne [/quote]

Dwayne, this thread has indeed been very interesting to me. Matters such as these I do find truly fascinating.

I have been considering a 6.5 sweede for quite some time now and I do think I'll end up with one at some point.

Lately however I have jumped on the 270 bandwagon and it did get me thinking I may be able to duplicate the results you are getting if I build a 270 with perhaps a 8 or 9 twist with a barrel of appropriate grove depth.

While it may perform well I do fear that perhaps the 6.5 bore diameter may be just about perfectly suited to further facilitate the results you have been seeing with the 6.5.

I to suspect that the barns bullet in the 6.5 may be softer than the Barnes in the 270.

Whatever the case it fascinates me.

Thanks for posting

Shod


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After killing more deer than I can honestly remember, with tons of different cartridges/calibers, I don't think Sherlock Holmes could tell the difference in tissue damage between a critter hit with a 270 or a 6.5 Swede, given the same bullet and similar impact velocity. If anything, the Swede would drive further due to better SD........

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I don't have a real extensive amount of experience with either the .270 or the 6.5x55mm......maybe a dozen kills with each one.

In my limited experience however, I'd be hard pressed to say one did more "damage" than the other. On the other hand there does seem to be a real difference in penetration. The 6.5 seems to have a real edge in leaving a hole in-hole out type of performance.

In my opinion this is because I've typically used a 140 grain bullet in the 6.5x55 while most often the .270 is loaded with a 130 grain bullet. This has two effects.

First, the 140 grain 6.5mm bullets are much more heavy-for-caliber than the lighter .270 bullets which almost always results in better penetration. Secondly, the 6.5x55 sends its bullets at 2600-2800 fps which is the "perfect" velosity range for cup-and-core bullets while the .270 (at closer range) arrives at something over 3000 fps.....just a bit too much for "normal" bullets.

A switch to a heavier 150 grain bullet in the .270 would solve this problem....not because the bullets are tougher or "better" but because the velosity would drop into the "sweet spot" for normal design bullets. I don't use (or trust) solids (monometal) bullets so I really can't say what, if any effect that might have.

Once I went to 150 grain bullets for the .270 penetration was so much improved. The secret, to me, is choosing a bullet that arives at the target in the 2600-2800 fps "sweet spot".


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Most interesting thread, Gents.

The 6.5 has some great looking stats and like the curves on a hottie, it keeps capturing my interest.

Sometime in the 70's a buddy got a firebreathing 6.5 Remington Mag and he shot the factory 120 Corelokts. Later I chronographed them and they were doing less than 3000fps. He shot a bunch of deer and they went down in a hurry...or so it seemed, to the rest of the camp's experience. He had a permanent case of buck fever and seldom practiced, so a lot of them were not shot ideally. It registered and I concluded the perfect deer rifle for Michigan had to be the Model 100 re-barreled to the 263 Express. Down the road I bought a 260 Remington for my young daughter, her first rifle, and loaded 120 NBTs. She shot a bunch of deer over the years with it and they were shot well as she is meticulous to the point of driving her father crazy. We had to track enough of them far enough in the buckbrush that I had it re-barreled to a 7-08. Another concern at the time was the possible mix-up of ammo with her younger brother's 7-08.

Now I am not discounting the faster twist posit in any way--just some history fwiw. The twist thing makes as much sense as anything and I have little experience with monos.

Earlier this week I loaded up some 140 NBTs for the 280. I had one round that would not chamber. It had a different ogive but was too was a 140. So, I reluctantly spiffed the bullet shelf and consequently measured 3 different ogives for the 140 NBTs on hand. I tossed the straggler "vintage" ones. They do change the product...

It would be tough to do a comparative longitudinal study on bullet effectiveness...:)


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Shodd;
Good morning to you sir, I trust this wet last day of October finds you doing well.

I'd again like to say a sincere thank you to all of the participants in this 'Fire discussion for being cordial to one another - yourself included in that group sir.

As I read the responses, a couple of points have come up that I'm going to attempt to articulate a response for or at very least provide some background for my theories.

We were cutting up a good friends mulie buck in our garage two evenings ago - both of us having shot/skinned/cut and wrapped more than 2 dozen deer sized animals over the decades shot with various .270's shooting all sorts of bullets - that there wasn't a whole pile of damage on the ribs of his meat buck.

Oh, I must hasten to add he shot it with my .270 and the 130TTSX bullet. It took exactly one - the buck was at least 250yds away, the shot landed a wee bit back on the ribs, breaking a rib on entry, traversing the liver and exiting between ribs. The buck made it perhaps 75yds after being hit, was visibly rocked when hit and made the distance going downhill.

One of the thoughts that struck me when we were cutting up that buck was that when we'd both started down the path hunting - decades ago for both of us now - we didn't really take note of "how" things like different bullet/cartridge combinations worked. As young/beginning hunters we were happy to have made meat and as we dropped the animal off at a meat processors we typically didn't even see any of the skeletal damage beyond what was visible when gutting it.

When we'd both shot more than say a good handful of game and it became less desirable to experience the adventure of having one run down into a steep canyon or hurtle off of a cliff after being hit - well then we started to pay more attention to the details.

About that time we began to process our own game - in the garage at my house mostly - and things like tissue and skeletal damage became much more apparent for obvious reasons. That damage is always a topic of conversation if there's more than one of us cutting the animal - well honestly sometimes I do talk to myself while I cut meat..... but that's another issue entirely. wink

Anyway it was those meat cutting conversations and observations that had been fermenting within me for years now that spurred the thread. Nothing scientific to be sure and certain, merely the observations of a BC redneck - I guess a few of us really - who have been blessed enough to share each others' company and good hunting fortune over the span of nearly 3 decades now.

If you or someone else out there is able to benefit from what we've observed as we've cut and wrapped "winters meat" for our respective families that's wonderful.

At the same time if other hunters have had differing results and observations then that's fine too and I'm positive we'd have a lot to talk about - especially so if it was a cool BC evening where we were in my garage, a slab of meat lying on a hardwood cutting board in front of each of us and a decent knife in our hands. smile

Thanks again to you and all the respondents to the thread. May you all have the opportunity to at least stand over one fresh gut pile this fall and feel the satisfaction knowing "winters meat" has been made.

Good luck to you all in your remaining hunts this fall.

Dwayne

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Just for my two cents...
I've used everything from plain Jane Core Loct slugs to A-Max etc. It seems to me that if you're using the same slug in each cartridge, the 6.5x55 should do less tissue dammage. That is considering the only difference would be the velocity. A 129gr in a Swede shouldn't do as much damage as a 130gr in a .270. Now that's just me guessing as I've never shot game with a 6.5x55 Swede, just a .270....that however is fixin' to change in a few days.......Now who wants to forge my bolt and cut the barrel back to 21"???
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I've read your thread with interest. I don't think there's enough evidence to conclude anything, but I'm inquisitive enough that when I wear out my 270 barrel I'll look for a 1-8 or 1-9 barrel!

The era of low drag 277 bullets is coming anyway.

I mostly use 150g SSTs or 130g Partitions in my 270 Win. If I want more or less wound trauma, I am well served.

PS I get exits with the 150 SST on most deer and pigs and I've never had one of those famed blow-ups yet. They are a softer bullet than the NBT or the Interlock though.

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It's because the 6.5x55 is cool and the 270 well, it's gaaaay.

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Originally Posted by BobinNH
Dwayne: Top of the morning!

I'm a fan (not a detractor) of tough bullets in the 270 for BG hunting....and most any high velocity cartridge for that matter.

I have noticed that tough bullets benefit from more twist. The differences you are seeing, I think,aren't due to caliber (they are too close),velocity (the 270 is generally faster but not by a huge margin),or bullet weight(they are too close in weight). Maybe there are minor differences in the way the manufacturers engineer and construct those bullets for expansion from one caliber to the other but I doubt they vary that much.

The only factor left is twist and with that we are left to the same old, "same old" that the 270 is generally a 10 twist and the 6.5 is twisted faster..........

I know Old Rooster thinks it's 6.5 MoJo smile but I think there is something else at work. wink


BobinNH;
Good afternoon to you sir, I hope this finds you and yours doing well this first weekend of November.

I'd intended to send this bit of information to you via PM, but somehow wasn't able to make a connection so will do it here and hope you catch it.

This afternoon I finally got around to measuring the twist on the Parker Hale .270 barrel on the rifle in question and as close as I can measure it the twist is slightly more than 1:11" - closer to 1:11�" as close as I can measure.

Anyway as well some time back you were kind enough to give me some of your .270 recipes as that rifle was having a tough time breaking much past 3000fps with a 130gr.

My gut feeling now is that the slower than normal initial velocities coupled with the slower than usual twist made for a much less than typical or optimal result - especially considering the tough bullets.

Anyway sir it won't change anyone's world I'm certain, but I thought you or someone out there this afternoon might find the information interesting.

All the best to you this fall Bob and good luck on your remaining hunts too.

Dwayne


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Originally Posted by BC30cal
OldRooster;
Thanks for your input here sir, I appreciate your candor and reading your experiences with the different cartridges.

As a bit of back fill for you or anyone else reading this morning, the rifle in question was a 1903 built Carl Gustav that I purchased for something under $60 from Century Arms in Montreal in 1984. We'd moved out here to BC where my folks lived at the time and my father had expressed interest in hunting with me but no longer had a rifle.

Though $60 was a lot of money for us then, my understanding wife supported the project and allowed me the time and leeway in our busy schedules to cobble this rifle together for my father.

This is him on the day I completed it - might be '85 by then I can't recall.
[Linked Image]

Back in those pre-internet days there wasn't much information on the Swede and we were both pleasantly surprised with how it performed on the local whitetail and mulie bucks we chased. I recall Dad's comment when I hit a meat mulie buck with my new .338 Win Mag and it didn't knock it off it's feet or for that matter seem to change it's leisurely gait much at all.... it wasn't a compliment to my new rifle anyway....... laugh

In the fullness of time Dad's health no longer permitted him to hunt and he gave the little carbine back to me, requesting that I give it to one of his grandchildren someday. As it turned out it was our eldest daughter who spotted it in the safe one day and claimed it.

I believe she's taken at least 8 local mulie and whitetail bucks with it - each taking exactly one shot each.

This is her last year's buck which turned out to be one of the fattest carcasses I've ever handled in a lifetime of hunting. It went 149lb into the cooler so I'd guess at least a 3rd rack buck.
[Linked Image]

We've yet to get a range finder, but lets just say I asked her twice if she was confident in hitting this buck as it was across a fairly wide draw from us. The bullet hit a rib on entry, then traversed the lower lungs and top aorta, took out another rib and then completely smashed the big joint between the scapula and ulna before hitting the mountainside beyond.

I just shook my head as we were walking over to it and had to agree with her assessment when she said, "Man does this thing ever work!" grin

Thanks for reading sir, thanks again for your input and all the best to you this fall in your remaining hunts.

Dwayne



D, my friend.

Thats a big bodied Canadian Forked horn buck! Interesting thread.


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