Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters What Happened to the 7mm Rem Mag?

Billy,

Many ".300 magnum minimum" recommendations occur because a lot of guides aren't very sophisticated about cartridges, bullets or even shooting game.

I went on a moose hunt in Alberta a few years ago, and the outfitter recommended that clients bring a minimum of a .300 magnum. I knew this outfitter well from several other trips for waterfowl and deer, and he isn't particular sophisticated about rifles. He doesn't even handload, and when buying ammo generally doesn't get into any more detail than bullet weight.

I drove up so there was no reason to check my rifle on the camp range upon arrival, but when my guide (not the outfitter) and I headed out the first morning, he asked what cartridge my rifle was chambered for. "Seven millimeter," I said, betting the guy would think it was a 7mm Remington Magnum. (I'd also met this guide before, and knew he was about as rifle-sophisticated as the outfitter. In Alberta, as in Montana, when you say a rifle is a 7mm the average hunter assumes it's a 7mm Remington Magnum. In fact many people don't know there IS another 7mm cartridge.)

There's a good moose population in that part of Alberta, and after looking at several bulls we found a suitable specimen on the second day, the range about 220 yards. I put a bullet through both lungs, about a third of the way up the chest, and the moose just stood there, as they often do, but after a few seconds it started walking VERY slowly toward some nearby brush, then stopped. The guide asked me to shoot again so it wouldn't get into the brush. I did, and the moose took a few more steps and keeled over, 19 yards from where it was first shot. (I doubt the second shot made any difference, but shooting again made the guide feel better.)

After the moose was gutted and loaded on a flatbed trailer for the trip back to the lodge, the guide said, "It didn't look like that 7mm of yours kicks as much as most of them." I said, "That's because it's a 7mm Mauser." He just nodded, and we continued on down the highway.

Back at lodge the guide told the story of how my little 7mm stopped the moose before it got into the brush. The outfitter said, "That's exactly what happened when I shot my moose with my .300 Winchester!"

Listening to the advice of someone because he is a "hunting guide" could be hazardous to your hunting. Here in Montana, hunting guides run the gamut from kids that have never killed an elk to gun nuts that have killed lots of game here and been to Alaska and Africa a few times.

Indeed many people do not know there is more than one 7mm cartridge....Three times..... not once, but thrice when asked which 7mm my customer needed they sheepishly replied...."......7mm regular?..."

Mule Deer - that sounds pretty darned close to my big moose story. But it was in Northern BC and not guided. Rifle was a Brno 21-H in...7mm. The factory RWS 162gr KS loads did a number on the bull. Even the distance was similar at ~200 yards.

As for the "other" 7mm, I have two of those in the safe and they also seem to do well.

Zumbo did a lot to convince guys they need a cannon to kill an elk. When he was still popular he declared the .30-06 too light for Elk (after killing 19 with it ) and he switched to uber magnums and told us all how much better they kill.

I love that old tale. I always brought it up when I did hunting club seminars as if it were true, then the decades of stories about magnums blowing standard bullets up prematurely would be incorrect.
Can't have it both ways.

I am a 7mm RM owner by default. I picked up a Browning 1885 from a gun dealer friend for $500.00 and a Winchester Model 70 push feed from Walmart for $299.00, both with scopes. I was never a fan of the cartridge, but like the rifles and couldn't pass them up.

I found out that real world ballistics are not kind to the 7mm Remington Magnum, based on my Oehler 35 and legions of deer hunters wanting to see how fast their rifles are when sighting in for deer season at my gun club. This observation has been supported in this forum by many of your postings.

With that stated, after loading for and shooting the 7mm RM, I like the cartridge. It is shootable, has plenty of power to take any game animal (as long as properly constructed and placed bullets are used), is inherently accurate (I read the gun rags too to expand my vocabulary), and easy to load for. It has been accurate with many different bullet weights, allowing for a more useful rifle. You can use the Speer 115gr. HP for varmints, 140-150 for deer and 175 for moose and elk.

What you gain with the 7mm Remington Magnum is versatility to span a wider range of game, ballistics and shooting scenarios.

And if someone got themselves a 7mm RM concurrently with a copy of Bob Hagel's "Game Loads and Practical Ballistics" they could get that 7mm RM shootin' really, really fast. Mighty flat, too...

Love mine!!

Having been in the guide's shoes, I agree. Especially if it's a .300 or .338.

Can't believe the guide had to ask you to shoot again.

I have a 7mm Rem 700...it has had a few upgrades done to it. I've zeroed it with 160 grain Partitions, which is the only load I'll use in it. It's accurate, reliable, hard-hitting (so far) and doesn't kick me silly. What's not to like?
Bob

Always glad to hear from real experts.

I am pretty well known for shooting again, and fast, when there is any chance another round might be needed. But in this instance we could both see the blood around the entrance hole, right where I'd aimed the first bullet.

The bullet was a 160-grain North Fork, generally considered one of the best on the market, so bullet "failure" wasn't likely. The moose was obviously hard and correctly hit, and I didn't see any real reason to shoot him in the sticking place again, since in my experience he was about to tip over.

I don't believe the second bullet helped put him down any quicker, either, because he really didn't change his behavior after the impact. He continued with a slow step-and-pause before keeling over, and as noted previously that was 19 paces from where he'd been hit the first time. The entrance holes were about an inch apart, and the two bullets were found under the hide on the far side, almost as close together. During field-dressing we couldn't tell where the damage from one bullet ended and the next began, another reason I sincerely doubt the second hurried anything along. In fact, since the bull had stopped when I shot again, my guess is the second bullet is what got him to take a few more steps before falling.

I used to have two 7mm Remington Magnums. I bought a 280 Remington and I could not see the difference between the cartridges when hunting. I could really feel the difference when shooting. My 7Mag was a noisy, hard kicking 280. When I got my 7mm 08 I soon rid myself of the 280 for the same reason I got rid of the 7Mag. What's next, a 7mm BR?

When you have nothing to base the comment on, it's pretty hard to defend.

Which is why it's hard to believe the guide had to ask.

And thanks for the compliment there MD, but I'm no expert. Just a regular guy that's hunted nearly 50 yrs with a very strong sense of responsibility to the animal, whose life I'm about to take, to do so as quickly and humanely as possible. That means that no matter how cock sure I am of the first shot, if they're still on their feet when I've reloaded they get another and another until they're down or out of my sight. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers

And I often do exactly the same thing--in fact more often than not. But I have also hunted moose enough to know they often take a while to tip over, even when hit perfectly through the chest. It simply takes a while for their system to shut down, and shooting them again doesn't have much if any effect. In fact it can get them started going again, probably though adrenalin.

The same thing is true of some other large animals. It's exactly why African PH's wait a while before following a Cape buffalo even after it's taken a solid chest hit. Waiting gives the buffalo's enormous lungs time to fill with blood and his systems to shut down. If you follow one up and start shooting immediately, adrenalin kicks in and the buffalo becomes much harder to kill.

Kind of like the 7x57.

Minus the panache....

The well-known custom stockmaker Jerry Fisher's main big game rifle (maybe his only) is a pre-'64 Model 70 he stocked many years ago. It was originally a 7x57 Mauser, and he used it to hunt everything in Montana, where he lives.

Then in the 1960's the 7mm Remington Magnum became the big deal, and so many kept yammering about its amazing effectiveness that Jerry rechambered his Model 70 and opened up the bolt face. I was visiting him in his shop maybe a dozen years ago, and he showed me the rifle, saying: "One of the dumbest things I've ever done. All it does is kick harder, but it doesn't kill any better."