|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 99
Campfire Greenhorn
|
OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 99 |
any 9mm luger gun can be rechambered to fire the 356 TSW rd. No, you don't want standard weight bullets. What you want is 45 grs at 2200 fps. with the hp bullet split nearly in half from the front. It's actually more shocking and destructive (on animal tests) than a 4" 357 with 125 gr jhp's. Yet it recoils like a 380. I practice with my cast lead 125 gr lrn's, at 800 fps. same recoil. Lots less blast and flash, tho.:-)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,395 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,273
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 56,273 |
Sounds alot like an FN 5.7
_______________________________________________________
An 8 dollar driveway boy living in a T-111 shack
LOL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,612 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,166 |
I thought this was another Deflave thread.
Nevermind, carry on.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,982
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,982 |
I'm a bit skeptical of specialty loads for self defense. All handguns are pretty anemic and there's no way to make a handgun into a rifle regardless of the load. I'm most comfortable with loads that have established gunfight records in law enforcement. These would include Federal HST, Winchester Ranger T-Series, Speer Gold Dot and to a lesser extent Remington Golden Saber. Cor-Bon DPX also has a good track record although they aren't used as much by LEO's.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 99
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 99 |
never claimed it became a rifle. I claimed, and it can be shown in animals, that it's a LOT more effective than what you've got in your pocket gun right now. :-) go ahead, be "comfortable" with loads that don't work worth a hoot. Cause they don't. You won't find enough chest hits (on people) with any given load,to give you a real reason to favor that load. You'd need at least 20 such hits, on video. Thats's the only proof of what happened (soon enough to stop an attack) People lie, have mispreceptions, etc. animal shoots are repeatable, as many times as you want. flesh and blood is flesh and blood. If the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men, due to the clothing issue.
examining a dead body doesn't tell you if the guy was stopped instantly, or fought on for 10 seconds before dying, after being shot, that is. all you know is he's dead. So what? he might have lived for days after being shot. the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved.
Last edited by squesh; 10/19/14.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,945
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,945 |
Squesh, show us the evidence.
Do you have some picture?
How about some tests through 4 layers of denim into some ballistics gel?
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,982
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,982 |
I was referring to duty loads that work in guns like a Glock 19 for example. Police reports document what happens in these shootings and there are lots of them out there. They provide real world data to draw conclusions from.
Years ago there were some purported animal tests of handgun bullets done in Europe. I believe they were referred to as the "Strasbourg Tests". They have been pretty well debunked. What are the tests you refer to and do you have a source for them?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 386
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 386 |
If the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men, due to the clothing issue.
Interesting thread. Not saying your right or wrong. But that sentence does not make sense to me. I can beleave that, if the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men. But I can't see how it would be due to the clothing issue. Seems you have it azz backwards to me
Last edited by dell; 10/20/14.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 386
Campfire Member
|
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 386 |
Just curious, are you going to answer?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,083
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,083 |
What is the sound of a head that gets between the back of a semi trailer and the loading dock when it backs in?
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,907
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 22,907 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234 |
... the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved. Jeff Cooper tell you that?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 918
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 918 |
Where do these people come from? Is there a portal between universes?
No fear, no doubt, all in, balls out.
"America"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
... the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved. Jeff Cooper tell you that? 
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 53,303 |
What is the sound of a head that gets between the back of a semi trailer and the loading dock when it backs in? Coffee,...everywhere, now where's the Windex ? GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,810 |
The 9mm is plenty for self defense, especially in Spring, Summer and Fall, before heavy Winter clothing is donned. Then, I switch to a 45ACP.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,164
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,164 |
... the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved. Jeff Cooper tell you that? TFF! And I'm pretty sure Cooper was a big fan of 230 gr hardball ammo, of the .45 caliber kind, IIRC. The so called "magic" bullet, not so much.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
never claimed it became a rifle. I claimed, and it can be shown in animals, that it's a LOT more effective than what you've got in your pocket gun right now. :-) go ahead, be "comfortable" with loads that don't work worth a hoot. Cause they don't. You won't find enough chest hits (on people) with any given load,to give you a real reason to favor that load. You'd need at least 20 such hits, on video. Thats's the only proof of what happened (soon enough to stop an attack) People lie, have mispreceptions, etc. animal shoots are repeatable, as many times as you want. flesh and blood is flesh and blood. If the bullet doesn't expand and overpenetrates in critters, it will do even worse on men, due to the clothing issue.
examining a dead body doesn't tell you if the guy was stopped instantly, or fought on for 10 seconds before dying, after being shot, that is. all you know is he's dead. So what? he might have lived for days after being shot. the dead body doesn't tell you anything about how much shock and destruction the load achieved. Do you actually believe the bullscheit that spews from your own mouth, my god your azz must be jealous!
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 99
Campfire Greenhorn
|
|
OP
Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 99 |
care to TRY refuting any of it, instead of just talking out of your lover pocket?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 17,098 |
Show me some peer reviewed studies.
As far as your BS about conventional loads not working
me, and the FBI disagree with you.
We carried Glock 45's for the first 11 years I was on the Job, every gunfight we had was stopped very very quickly with 230 Grain Gold Dots, and 55 Grain Vmax fom an M-4
Post Mortens will
Most certainly tell you how a bullet performed, via wound channel, and bullet traverse
Last edited by gitem_12; 10/21/14.
The government plans these shootings by targeting kids from kindergarten that the government thinks they can control with drugs until the appropriate time--DerbyDude
Whatever. Tell the oompa loompa's hey for me. [/quote]. LtPPowell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,058
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,058 |
I frequently carry a G29 loaded w Doubletap 135 Noz JHPs. They're rate at 767 ME from a G20, bet they're still WAY over 500 ME from my Snubby Glock.
Spare G20 mags full of DT 200 gr. WFNGC which are hitting 542 Me at 100 yards from G20.
But pretty sure it's where the holes are placed that matters most...
�When in doubt, I whip it out.� Uncle Ted ![[Linked Image]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v704/elrata/imagejpg1_zps585f4bbf.jpg)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,083
Campfire Kahuna
|
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 56,083 |
All y'all confusing the kid's emotions'n such with such numbers.  Carry on.
I am..........disturbed.
Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,895
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,895 |
any 9mm luger gun can be rechambered to fire the 356 TSW rd. No, you don't want standard weight bullets. What you want is 45 grs at 2200 fps. with the hp bullet split nearly in half from the front. It's actually more shocking and destructive (on animal tests) than a 4" 357 with 125 gr jhp's. Yet it recoils like a 380. I practice with my cast lead 125 gr lrn's, at 800 fps. same recoil. Lots less blast and flash, tho.:-) Anyone quoting foot pounds of energy as a way to rate lethality hasn't a clue and that is a fact.
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,518
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,518 |
Is this still the "Ask the gunwriters" forum?
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Doug
|
|
|
|
|
236 members (12344mag, 22kHornet, 160user, 06hunter59, 1OntarioJim, 257 mag, 23 invisible),
1,519
guests, and
918
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,191,176
Posts18,465,476
Members73,925
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
![[Linked Image]](http://smg.photobucket.com/user/elrata/media/imagejpg1_zps585f4bbf.jpg.html)
