Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders flintlock goes off accidentally

I have an older cva 50 caliber flintlock and the hammer will fall without the trigger being pulled. I can leave it at half cock and it will stay there. I suppose that I could just leave it at half cock and just cock it when I want to shoot but I really just want to have it fixed.

Does anyone have any idea what the problem is?

Trigger pull could be set to light.

what model is it? Hawken, frontier, mountain rifle?

Pictures of the inside of the lock would help greatly.

Lock may just need a good cleaning

If your flintlock has double triggers, look for a very small screw between the 2 triggers. That screw determines the amount of pressure needed to set off the front set trigger after it is set by pulling the rear trigger until it "clicks". The further "in" the small screw is screwed, the lighter the front trigger pull becomes.

By the same token, the further out the screw is set, the heavier the front trigger pull will be.

If that small screw is screwed in too far, it could possibly cause the problem you've got. You might try turning that small screw OUT a couple of turns and see if that eliminates your problem.

If your rifle has only a single trigger, then as others have suggested, I'd clean and lube the trigger and lock plate mechanisms.

I'd suggest that you remove the trigger group by taking out the screws which hold the trigger(s?) in place and thoroughly clean the trigger mechanism with a commercial cleaner, then re-lubricating it with a good gun oil. Do NOT use WD40 as it can become gummy with smallish or delicate mechanisms.

You may have to remove the hammer and the lock mechanism in order to remove the trigger group... and it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to remove it anyway and thoroughly clean the lock's mechanism and re-lube it with the same good gun oil.

Be careful when removing the front lock plate screw. In many models, that screw runs through a curved spring-like part which lays under the barrel that helps to hold your ram-rod in place.

I suggest you only unscrew that front plate screw far enough to loosen & remove the plate so you can clean and lube the mechanism... i.e., do NOT pull that screw out. Just unscrew it far enough to allow the plate to be removed and STOP. If you pull out and remove that screw, you may not be able to "re-capture" the ram-rod spring in the proper place once the screw is pulled out of the spring-like part.

If you can find a local gunsmith or someone who has worked on flintlocks and is knowledgeable about them and understands the mechanism, it might be better to pay them to do this work if you are not "comfortable" doing it.

In any event, you should NOT leave the hammer mechanism as it is now since doing so would be very UNSAFE if the rifle was loaded. You should not and CAN NOT "trust" the half-cock position to insure the hammer might not fall and fire the rifle while carrying a loaded rifle with FFFFg in the frizzen pan if you're hunting... or even at the rifle range.

These are decisions you must make... but always "think" SAFETY with any firearm.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Well I would agree with Ron on the first part concerning double set triggers .
Once you get the adjustment screw set , drop a bead of Super glue on it. Myself I like just a dab of epoxy . For what ever reason a lot of the CVA double sets like to adjust themselves .

Now if you have a single trigger , then your going to have one of two types of tumblers on the lock .
You will have to pull your lock out to see which you have . As Ron state be careful with the front lock screw . If you forget and the spring falls , you will have to lift the barrel or fight the nose cap .

a) will have a sear engagement screw / feather screw on the tumbler . With the lock out , if you look right on the top edge of the tumbler �small cam that goes through the lock plate and the hammer attaches to � you will see a small screw with a coil spring
This small screw adjusts the depth the sear will engage in the full cock notch . The further its screwed in , the lighter the engagement and the lighter the trigger pull. The less its screwed in , the heavier the engagement and the heavier the trigger pull . . The coil spring keeps the screw from adjusting itself ..

b) type tumbler has not feather / engagement screw . Thus your sear should fall to the full depth of the full cock notch

Now what can happen with both these is that the nose of the sear can break off or the full cock notch of the tumbler �not uncommon to happen with CVA�
. When that happens the sear will not fully engage the full cock notch while at the same time engaging the � cock ..

So here is what I would do .
First I would remove the lock .
With the lock out of the stock , work over its functions by bring it to � cock , then to full cock . Look for engagement of both notches.
If the lock doesn�t want to stay at full cock when not in the stock , then look for the adjustment screw for tumbler (a). back the crew out and try the lock again .
IF you don�t have the adjustment screw or have the screw backed all the way out and the lock still wont stay at full cock , then look for a broken sear nose or broken or improperly installed sear spring .

While you have the lock out do as the others said and lean it up good .

Now if the lock works fine outside the stock , then I would look at the set trigger if you have one .
Simply re install the lock , back the small screw out that Ron mentioned .

If it still doesn�t want to stay at full cock , then you most likely have an issue with wood clearance in the sear hole .
The factory CVA stocks are very soft . Frankly so are all the parts in the locks . So what can happen is if you over tighten the lock bolts , you can warp the lock plate or compress the wood of the lock mortis . This will cause the lock to can just enough that the sear hit�s the wood on the bottom of the sear hole , just enough to not allow full engagement of the full cock notch . It can also effect other places and cause parts to drag or bind .

What you will need to do is use transfer ink to find where your getting contact with the wood .
For ink you can use candle soot , lipstick , black sharpie marker �� Coat the bottom of the sear end of the sear with your chosen transfer material . Carefully set the lock back in . tighten it down , then work the lock a few time .. You then must remove the lock and look for color to be transferred to the wood from the lock .. The colored wood is then removed and you repeat the process tell you no longer get transfer .

So IMO your most likely going to find one of the above to be your problem as all of them are very common issues on CVA , Traditions and Jukar

PS. If You are confused or don�t quite get what to do , send me a PM and ill send you the my number .
d If I don�t answer leave a message and ill call you back . With hunting season cranking up im really swamped anmay not be able to get to the phone

I always thought that screw set how hard it was to set the rear trigger?

Actually what it does is adjust the amount of movement needed by the front trigger before the rear trigger is released and then trips the sear of the lock.
How it does this is as the set screw is screwed in , it pushes up on the front trigger bar . So you don�t have to pull the rear trigger as far back . But it also means that the notch in the rear trigger doesn�t engage as deep into the notch of the front trigger .
When set , its actually the rear trigger that fires the lock

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Nope... with a double triggered muzzle-loader, the small screw between the two triggers determines the amount of pull necessary on the FRONT trigger to fire the rifle. The ONLY function the rear trigger has is to "set" a lighter front trigger pull. You could pull the REAR trigger all day long, but the rifle would never fire.

If you don't "set" the front trigger by pulling on the rear trigger until you hear a "click" which indicates you've "set" the front trigger, then, of course, you can always fire the rifle by pulling the front trigger alone until the rifle fires. However, if unset by "setting" the front trigger with the rear trigger,, the front trigger will require a considerably greater amount of "pull" to make the rifle fire.

Jus' my 2�...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Ron stated it better then I did .
Now some will disagree but you do IMO actually marginally lighten the pull of the trigger as well as reduce travel do to the engagement notch in the front trigger becoming more and more angled as you screw in the adjustment .
Also it should be noted that not all double set triggers fire the lock while unset and using the front trigger . They however for the most part adjust the same and the adjustment does the same thing .

I have seen 3 different trigger sets on Traditional CVA rifles .
a) standard pivot/ leverage type trigger
b) double set hunting trigger which will fire the lock both set and unset
c) double set target trigger which will only fire the lock when set IE it acts more as a single set . It should be noted that this trigger is capable of being set up as a true double set . But it requires re inletting the triggers . In at least 2 cases it also required a new sear

Let me also clarify something . I don�t want to confuse folks . Yet at the same time I think they need to know .


This is true and at the same time not true .
It really depends on what trigger set one has .
But �when set� it�s the rear trigger that fires the lock even though your pulling the front trigger .
In all cases pulling the rear trigger will do nothing but load spring tension and engage the rear trigger into the front trigger

A)With the standard CVA type double sets, both hunting and target , when the trigger is set , the rear trigger is now under spring tension. When the shooter pulls the front trigger , the rear trigger is released and springs up to trip the sear and fires the lock .
When un set , the front trigger acts as a single pivot type trigger and will also trip the sear and fire the lock .
In which case the rear trigger does fire the lock. However initially pulling on it will do nothing but set the triggers

B)With the CVA target type trigger , which as I said is essentially the same trigger set . It however is inlet alittle forward . The engagement notches of the two triggers are on the side of the trigger bars . Thus the front trigger bar will not contact the sear and fire the lock without being set . Again the rear trigger , when set , is under spring tension. When the front trigger is pulled , it releases the rear trigger .The rear trigger then springs up . It�s the sear and fires the lock .
Again pulling the rear trigger does nothing but set the triggers

C) Concerning a single set type double trigger . This type of trigger I have never seen on a factory ,CVA rifle . The top of the trigger looks kind like the end of a bone and has no trigger bar. It only has a notch that the rear trigger engages into when set .
Pulling the front trigger does nothing . The front trigger performs no function other then to release the rear trigger from tension.
Again the rear trigger then springs up and fires the lock .
This trigger type must be set in order to work .

This CVA gun should have either A or B . more commonly (A)

WARNING!!!
If you have your gun at full cock and your finger slips off the rear trigger prior to engaging the front trigger OR you have the triggers adjusted so light that the rear trigger does not properly engage the front trigger , the gun will fire when you let of the rear trigger .
The triggers all must be adjusted to the point where they can be set after cocking the lock to full cock .

Ok, I understand how it works now. The only reason I mentioned what I did in my above post is I bought a GPR that has the double set triggers. No matter how hard i pulled on the rear trigger I couldn't get it to set. The screw was turned in all the way. I ended up installing a longer screw, and then it was easy to set the rear trigger. Of course as you guys explained it also set the front trigger lighter, but I never knew that, because I couldn't get the rear trigger set with the short screw.

In talking to Lyman they told me they use the short screw as a safety measure to keep guys from setting the trigger too light. That didn't make sense to me at the time, because I thought the screw was just setting how light the rear trigger was. Now I know it's setting both triggers lighter.

Sorry I had to edit my warning as it read wrong . I guess that�s what happens when I write in WP .

Yes with the lyman rifles , they were having issues with people adjusting the triggers to light and they were going off when accidentally jarred . As with most liability issues , the company started installing the shorter screw .

With your issue , if the screw was all the way in and you had the longer adjustment screw , the rear trigger would not engage the front no mater how hard you pulled.

As to the issue of the rear trigger pull being to hard .
Some double set have a 2nd larger adjustment screw . What this screw does is act as a stop for the set trigger main spring . IE it doesn�t allow the spring to apply full pressure on the rear trigger .
Those that don�t have that adjustment , are adjusted by removing the trigger and backing of the main spring screw just a � to half turn .
But it should also be noted that you have to keep the trigger main spring tight enough that it provides enough tension on the rear trigger so that when it trips , it will still have enough force to dislodge the sear from the full cock notch and thus fire the lock

It wasn't that the screw was screwed in too far, because backing it off didn't help. Only when I installed a longer screw that the trigger worked as it should.

Funny you should mention backing off the spring screw. I actually did that before using the longer screw. It did help, but I felt uneasy about doing that, so I never shot the gun that way. A longer screw was the proper fix.

if the longer screw is now screwed all the way in , then you have an issue with the trigger . IE a casting burr or something eather on the trigger bars or on the nose of the main spring causing more pressure to be applied on the rear trigger . there is only about 3/32 diffrence between the old screw and the new one lyman uses. having the screw tured all the way in means that the front trigger notch is at its steepest angle and least amount of engagment .. again with tht longer adjustment screw you should be able to adjust the trigger to the point where they will not set .
if its working for you now , great

Only the short screw that came on the gun was screwed all the way in Cap. The longer screw isn't.

Ron and Capchee are spot on here guys. I had a trigger issue with my percussion CVA Hawkins that I couldn't resolve on my own. Dropped it off at Ahlman's Gun Shop in Morristown, Mn. They had it a few days, and it's been good ever since. They test fire all their work and the gun smith wanted to buy it off me after shooting it. I've still got that old Hawkins and it's just plain fun to shoot.

Alright...inside the trigger guard there is one screw. I screwed in and out and hit the back of the trigger and the gun still goes off. One more time what is the most likely culprit.

Sounds like it's time to hand the rifle over to a good gunsmith who is knowledgeable & experienced with muzzle-loaders because it is dangerous and useless as it is now.

Ron T.