Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Low Recoil 12ga Handloads?

I am a complete stranger to shotshell loading, but have a need for the ability to load some low recoil pheasant loads in 2 3/4" 12 ga...

This will be a low volume affair, and I doubt that I'll ever need more than a couple hundred rounds per year, practice and all.

What equipment, components, and specific knowledge should I be seeking?

This is for an unaltered Ithaca 37 that I purchased today. It is light, with no recoil pad. I have an artificial shoulder, and I want to use it on pheasant as it is, unaltered...

I would recommend a Lee Load-All Press. The real-world price is around $50, maybe a little more. They aren't the fastest or toughest in the world, but you can easily crank out a couple hundred rounds a year--or a week. I've been using one since 1977, and while my old model has more metal parts than the newer models, I've been using the newer 20 and 16 for making specialized loads for a while now with no problems.

It's pretty easy to make up 7/8-ounce loads, which is what I often use on pheasants in my 28-gauge with high-antimony #7 shot, and it drops roosters neatly out to 40 yards. The wad depends on the shells you load, but I can send you several options, and Ballistic products has both shells and wads galore. Primers are really easy, since despite all the Obama-panic over handgun and rifle primers shotshell primers were never in short supply. Powder may be the biggest problem right now, but the loads I make use Bullseye, American Select and Red Dot.

If, in your opinion, 7/8 oz loads will do, I'm all ears...

I know that in my teen years I dropped a lot of roosters with the cheap 1 oz rabbit and squirrel loads of 6s...
And I've also had good luck with 7 1/2 shot in various loads.

And thanks...

Yeah, the 7/8 ounce loads work, and recoil less than 1-ounce loads. It just depends on how much recoil you can take.

Aside from good shooting and sufficient pattern density, the key is hard shot, which doesn't flatten like soft shot does when it hits birds, so penetrates deeper. A lot of pheasant hunters insist on using larger shot, even 4's, but that's because they buy cheap shells with soft shot.

I can get the Lee Load-All locally.
Love to hear what else to pick up and where.

I also have an older buddy that can show me the process, but he is a heavy load/large shot guy...

It all starts with the case, as the case dictates the wad and primer. Do you have any fired cases on hand?

No... I've always discarded my cases.

Was just on ballistic products site, and it looks like easy availability...

Yeah, they're easy to get, and pretty cheap. I also have a pile of fired 12-gauge cases on hand that I don't use much anymore, which I'd be happy to donate.

You need to use the exact recipe when loading shotshells, instead of varying components like you can with handgun and shotgun loading. This is mostly because the wad has to be matched to the type of case, not only because case capacity can vary considerably but because some case walls are the same diameter all the way up, and some are tapered. If you use a straight-wall wad in a tapered-wall case pressures can skyrocket. Primers can also make a big difference in pressure.

Since the exact recipe has to be used they're not hard to put together, but finding the right combination of components can be a little exasperating, one reason I depend on Ballistic Products so much. They also offer very reasonably priced loading guides with LOTS of combinations, and very good information.

Recipes abound for 1-1/8 oz. trap loads.

I have loaded many thousands of rounds using Win AA cases & wads over Win 209 primers and Clays powder - I think the charge weight is 19.2 grains but you had better double check that - it has been a long time since I felt the need to change powder bushings. Usually get 8 - 10 firings per case before the crimp goes soft and hulls start to split.

These clock at 1200 fps over my Oehler - just at max velocity for trap. Pretty easy to shoot 75 - 100 of these at a time with no strain.

MD - do you try for a velocity standard in order to keep your lead similar between loads?

Claybuster has a 3/4 oz wad for 12ga.

Never tried them but have a Lee 12ga Load-All that's been sitting on the bench for a year or so. One of those things I keep meaning to delve into. Thought I might gin up some low recoil 12ga that are roughly a heavy .410 equivalent.

If you look up Claybuster website, they have load data for the 12ga with their 3/4 oz wad, with various hulls/primers.

I understand that exact recipes must be used, but can alternate shot sizes be substituted? 6s instead of 7s?

I see that they even offer 6 1/2 shot...

Yeah, it doesn't matter what the shot size is as long as the weight of the charge is correct.

BP not only offers 6-1/2 shot but 5-1/2. I got some copper-plated 5-1/2's from them a few years ago, meaning to try them on late-season pheasants and sharptails, but have never gotten around to it!

The high antimony 7's aren't exactly common either, the reason I was somewhat flabbergasted to see a 25-pound bag of 7's at a local store recently. 7's are a really good shot size for lighter hunting loads, since the gap between 6 and 7-1/2 shot is the largest among common American shot sizes. Our 6's nominally run 225 to the ounce, while 7-1/2's are 350/ounce, a big difference. 7's usually go 290-300 per ounce, so plug the gap.

American 7's, by the way, are basically the same size as British 6's, the shot size of choice for their driven pheasant shoots.

Still exploring BPs site. In speaking of high antimony shot are you looking at the nickel plated stuff, or the Magnum Hard Lead shot?

And if you have hulls to donate, could I cover the cost of shipping?

To the OP, If you have a trap range anywhere near you, you can normally go there and buy once fired hulls. I would suggest Remington Premier either the green ones or gold.

Then a light 1oz load using Hodgdon Clays powder 17.0 grains Winchester 209 primers and Remington TGT-12 wads. This is a load that my wife & I shoot all the time either shooting sporting clays or at rooster. For sporting clays we use #8 shot & for roosters we shoot #5.

Either the plated shot or Magnum Hard Lead will work. The biggie is the hardness of the shot, not the plating.

The source of empties that WBill suggests is a good one. I used to get a lot of shells that way. If that doesn't work for you, we can work out something with some of my empties.

John:

Back in the day, copper plated 5 1/2s would have been the ticket for canvasback and blue bills over decoys! My Chessies would quiver when they'd pass. I did load a lot of copper 5s, though.

Mike

Does the shotgun have a recoil pad installed? I mean a quality recoil pad. A shooting vest (to hold shells also) and a pad will make a real difference. Or, take that pump 12 back and get a 20 gas operated shotgun. Less recoil with gas. Protecting the shoulder is number one concern, no?

When you look at the links Montana Marine provided you pick the loads featuring powders that deliver the velocity you want with the lowest pressures. Old time trap shooters shot heavy 1 1/8 oz loads for handicap but used powders like Green Dot and PB that gave them 1220+fps,good patterns with less pressure as well as low recoil because recoil is cumulative. Doesn't take a genius to spot those loads with WW AA,Fed Gold Medal,or REM STS hulls in the top 3 sections of the 2nd link. good luck Magnum Man

Its been a long time since I loaded any shot shells. Pulled my old Ponsness Warren out the other day. Love me some shotgunning.

Yes, I have trap clubs all around me. Will check that out as a source.

Appreciate all of the tips and links. Finished supper, watched Andy Griffith, then walked to the head of the ridge to check out the October sky.
Stars, Milky Way, and combine and tractor lights were all sparkling...
Early start tomorrow, and time to turn in.

Thanks to all again...

I've killed hundreds of SD roosters with 7/8 oz 12 ga loads at 1200 fps and #5 or #6 shot. Light loads are all we use until the snow flies. It's all about shot placement. We use Hodgdon Clays. It was always entertaining to dump birds at 50 yds or more with that load while the non-residents next to me were complaining that their 3" magnum #4s couldn't take a rooster down at 30 yds because they were "too tough". I always looked at them and told them to "shoot them in the head". They laughed at me until I explained to them that my birds never go into the pile for the picture at the end of the day and I would show them a couple roosters from my vest with no damage to legs or breasts...

I just want to second John's recommendation of the Lee Load All II. I bought one used for low count 16 gauge reloading. I only use about two boxes of hard 1 oz. 5 shot a year. Hardly worth the bother of loading except that locally no 16 gauge ammo is consistently on the shelf and when it is the ammo is usually heap promo loads using soft shot.

The reason I got the press cheap is that a friend of mine bought it and used it for a short time, but wasn't satisfied with the crimps he was getting with the available hulls. He bought a MEC and found he had the same crimp problems because of lousy hulls. There are no really good 16 gauge hulls available. That is not a problem in 12 gauge. Hit the skeet ranges and buy a bag or two of good hulls and you will be set.

I think most of John's advice is spot-on. The only exception I would make would be with the press. While the Lee LoadAll is ok (I use one for 16 gauge specialty loads) the Mec 600 Jr. is way better, and the woods are full of used 12 gauge Mecs for not a heckuva lot more than a new Lee LoadAll.

I too am a big believer in 7/8oz 12 gauge loads for trap, skeet, clays, and live birds. Since discovering the efficiency of those loads 15 years ago, it's all I load in 12 gauge anymore, except for slightly heavier waterfowl loads. My recipe is: AA hull, W-209 primer, 16.7 grains Clays, Claybuster or AA grey wad, 7/8oz shot (sized for the game du jour, but never bigger than 6's).

I too have an old Ithaca pump 12 gauge, that my dad gave me for graduating high school back in 1970. It is a nasty kicking SOB with heavy hunting loads and would have been swapped away long ago for that reason, but for the extreme sentimentality of owning it. With the above load however, it is as tame as a pussy cat and I actually take it out now and then to shoot it.

Then of course that 20ga gas shoots 7/8 oz loads as a standard, find 'em all day long on the shelf.

LH your friend needs to download an owners manual for his MEC loader and read it as the crimping station is superbly adjustable on MEC's to produce great crimps. I got my 1 st 600jr when I was 12 years old. I bought all of them used for $40-60 ea except the 16 which I bought new. Currently have 3 12ga 600 jr's, 1 for 7/8 oz, 1 for 1oz, and 1 for all others. Bought them cheap enough that I don't change the bushings or bars just use a different one to change loads. Have all the bushings that a guy could need from 410 to 10 ga. MEC fan yeah, wouldn't have a 9000G for free. I regard shotshell loading as a enjoyable hobby that saves me money and gives me loads I can't buy.#5 shot in 16's is one of them. 7/8Oz of #9's at 1200 fps is my go to load for 16 yd trap and skeet. 700x,Red Dot etc AA gray wad and older AA hulls works great and don't beat you up. I'll admit to getting lucky in having accumulated about 700 16 ga WW AA style hulls but Rem and Fed also work fine. Most of the folks here would drop $50 to get there oil changed if they need too,why they can't rationalize a used MEC 600 jr for the same is simply beyond my ability to understand. Since shot has got so high priced a lot of guys quit loading and buy promo light loads which is fine but like any good deal they will dry up too. A well setup 600jr on the bench with all the components and hulls ready to go is the finest use of a rainy day while your crock pot is bubbling away. The satisfaction of loading your own can't be replaced by watching some liberal sh*t on TV and buying promo loads at Wallyworld, yeah I garden and have my own apple tree also. Magnum Man

Ill second the possibility of the clay buster 3\4 oz wad if you are really looking for low recoil due to the shoulder injury in a light gun.
I load a huge number of 7\8 shells in the grey clay buster wad Win AA12L copy but have tried the 3\4 for younger shooters. Wont cycle an auto but fine in a pump or OU.
Any where you find shotguns being fired you will find rem gun club hulls in the trash can. These load very well and crimp nicely. Same data as the STS Rem hull.
Thru a mod choke that light load will take care of the job if you do your part.
PM me if you need a sample pack of wads, hulls and some shot.

For light factory loads that work well I've been shooting B&P High Pheasant loads 1 oz at 1160 fps and PSI in the 6000 range. They have proven to be very effective on wild pheasants and are a pleasure to shoot out of my 5 lb 15 oz sxs 12ga with a hard buttplate. They are 2 1/2" loads designed for light game guns. If you buy any of them be sure you get the 1 oz as they have a 1 1/16th oz load at a 100 fps faster that has much more felt recoil.

RST also make factory low pressure light loads.

I strongly recoment finding a used MEC 600 before buying a Lee. I have a couple of Lee's on the shelf that I replaced with MEC's and it make reloading a real pleasure.

My target loads are 7/8 oz over Greendot in 2 1/2" 12ga and my watwerfowl loads are 7/8oz ITX shot over PB in 2 1/2" 12ga.

All I ever load anymore are 2 1/2" shells as that is what a lot of my guns shoot and they work just fine in my 2 3/4" guns and I don't have to deal with a bunch of different shells.

B257, I've got a couple of dumb question for you, What do the "gun club" hulls look like? At our club it looks like everybody shoots either Nobel Sport or Winchester. Also, are the ribbed (12 ga) W and Universal hulls exactly the same and further are they HS hulls? The appear to be identical to the HS shown in my Lyman #5 book except that they are ribbed. Muddy

muddy22-
Here is a photo of some Remington hulls, including the current hulls marked "Gun Club". (Note the two different colors of the metal heads.) Current Remington 12-ga 2-3/4" hulls like the STS Premier, Gun Clubs, gold-colored Nitro 27, Sport Load, Shur-Shot, etc., are all molded using a single piece of plastic and a metal head. They are usually termed "one-piece", sometimes "Unibody", sometimes "SP". Currently they all use the same reloading recipes.

(There are a couple of Remington 2-piece 12-ga 2-3/4" hulls with yellow or black basewads. These will use different reloading data.)
.

.
Winchester hulls of current manufacturing can be confusing. Those with the cup-shaped basewads, like the AAs and Universals, will use the same recipes. Some of those labeled Super-X" or Super-Speed may have cup-shaped basewads, and are reloaded similarly. These basewads are designed to allow use of the same reloading data as the older compression-formed one-piece Winchester hulls. Winchester also makes shells with straight tubular walls and flat basewads; I've not found recent reloading data for these hulls.

--Bob

I shot low recoil as well as short 2.5" shells, after I did the math I found it was easier to just buy RST shells than get involved in low volume reloading. 1oz of 5's or 6's at 1200fps will crush a pheasant & are a real pleasure to shoot
http://www.rstshells.com/

I like green hulls. To me they last longer than red AA's. Those start cracking at the folds after a couple of reloads. STS will stand more reloads, IME.

JB gave good advice. For a bit more money, a good used MEC on EBay may be an option.

The cowboy action crowd is big into low recoil loads. They usually have good info. Try SASS on line.

DF

SASS is another option.

I have MEC reloaders in .410 and 28 gauge, and they work well, but I don't see any major advantage over the Lee Load-All for somebody who's not going to load more than a few boxes of shells a year. That's exactly what I use my three Load-Alls in 12, 16 and 20-gauge for, to make a few boxes of custom hunting loads for certain purposes.

But for practice I just shoot cheap factory ammo, because the price is just about as low as I can load them for and I don't have to spend time at the bench. Which is exactly why there are far fewer shotshell reloaders around anymore. It used to make sense for trap and skeet shooters to crank out several hundred rounds of reloads a week, but not these days.

DF, I can remember awhile back around here when the local trap range was selling Federal Top Gun loads for $4.00 a box and a lot of guys bought them and tossed the hulls. I asked a fellow shooter about that and he said well "they are only $4 a box so no one thinks they are any good for reloading" I laughed until my sides hurt. The kids they had reloading the traps and scoring picked the line clean when the shooting stopped for the day and put them all in clay bird boxes(135 ct boxes) and then to the garage. Pretty soon the club offered them for sale with no response and then it was anyone want them can have them. I put 75 of those clay bird boxes full of Top Gun hulls in my F-150 and took them home. I found out in short order that they loaded 3 times easy as pie with no problems at all. Claybuster makes a 1 0z wad design for them and they work fine. Now days I only shoot them once because I want to cut back on the space they took up in the pole bar loading room. I have also loaded the green and black Rem gun club hulls with satisfaction as well as Estate and RIO. WW bit the bullet for me when they change their plastic formula and put that stupid step in side their hull. Magnum Man

Thanks again...

For all the info and links.

Does anyone know if a 2 3/4" chambered pump will cycle 2 or 2 1/2" shells?

2-1/2" shells are normally no problem, but 2" depends on the gun.

I see you are staying in opening morning JB....


Keep where it is safe, like me.

Yeah, we've done opening day on public land before. I even accidentally located a legal bull two days ago, while hunting antelope, but don't have any interest in risking my life for a spike elk. I'm not worried about getting shot, but the traffic. The boys don't drive all that well when hurrying up and down those mountain roads to beat everybody else to their "secret" spot.

I stopped at the LGS the other day. Five minutes listening at the gun counter had me scurrying for cover....and you know me...I don't scurry well....

Was in one of the Townsend ranch-supply stores a couple days ago, which also sells hunting licenses and has a small sporting goods section. They boys were so fixated on buying deer and elk tags, more ammo, orange vests, etc. that they were totally ignoring the .22 Long Rifle ammo that had appeared on the shelves a few days before.

JB did you capitalize on the 22 LR ammo or just gawk at it? Magnum Man

I can't think of any pheasants that would be able to take a 1oz load of magnum or copper plated 6s or 5s trucking along @ 1235 FPS. When I reloaded shotgun for my trap and sporting clays needs, I used Hodgdon Clays with a 1 ounce Claybuster wad in AA hulls. My load for clays used 8s or 7.5s, but I shot that load a ton when I was a teenager, and could handle it for hundreds of rounds a day.

Spot on. I'd also tell the OP to buy a couple shotshell reloading manuals. Some of my favorite 7/8 OZ loads consisted of AA hulls, 209 primer, WAA12SL wads (pink wads), and clays powder. Green dot is great for 1 OZ loads. When you want to make some money shooting on the line or further than 27 yds, I run longshot powder and 1 1/8, 1 1/4, and 1 3/8oz loads with copper plated sixes. Yeah, those aren't ATA legal loads, but when shooting long bombs and "run what you brung" events, a 1,500 fps load of copper sixes never hurts . Good loaders that are reasonably priced: Mec 600 JR (as you mentioned), Mec grabber and my favorite, the Ponsness Warren...

Magnum Man,

We have plenty of rimfire ammo, so I didn't even bother to look at the price. I was in there again a couple days ago, however, buying some Sta-Bil for the rototiller and a couple of similar exciting items, and noticed the ammo shelf behind the cash register counter had an empty space where the .22 Long Rifle had been.