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I believe I comprehend the basic logistic difference between the Mil-Dot & the Moa. What is interesting to me is the differing value of the two.

1 Moa = 1" @ 100 yds
1 Mil = 3.6" @ 100 yds

Would it be prudent to choose a mil-dot reticle having no previous experience but possessing the will to learn it? While MOA would be a clearly simple choice due to familiarity I really like the simplistic uncluttered view of the mil-dot.

OR, have we already beat that horse?


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Either/or.

1/4 moa and 1/10 mil are the most common click values. Not much difference in the real world.

I've switched over to mils after using moa for a long time, kinda like the mil system better.

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I have a scope with mil dots. They are not used for ranging. The scope is on my varmint rifle and the mil dots are used as additional sighting spots. I know on 20X, which is my preferred magnification for varmint hunting the first dot up is dead on at 100 yards. The crosshair is on at 200 yards the first dot down works for 300 yards and 400 yards. The next one down works for 500 yards.

Ranging with mil dots when we have great range finders seems silly.


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What if you forget your RF........

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Range finders don't always work, especially on the open plains.

Some of my longest shots have been ranged with mil-dots.

Last edited by antelope_sniper; 10/21/14.

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What if you forget your RF........


What if God changed His mind. We would not exist.


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antelope_sniper,

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Range finders don't always work, especially on the open plains.


Mil dot never work for me. I don't do that. I didn't suggest others not use mil dots to range.

Quote
Some of my longest shots have been ranged with mil-dots.


You are most definitely better at that than me. My longest shot was ranged with my eyes as a guess. It happened prior to my purchasing a Leica 1200 about eight or ten years ago. I guessed a rock chuck feeding directly away was about 550 yards. The 75 grain A-Max entered the rump and exited the chest.


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Originally Posted by Reloder28
I believe I comprehend the basic logistic difference between the Mil-Dot & the Moa. What is interesting to me is the differing value of the two.

1 Moa = 1" @ 100 yds
1 Mil = 3.6" @ 100 yds

Would it be prudent to choose a mil-dot reticle having no previous experience but possessing the will to learn it? While MOA would be a clearly simple choice due to familiarity I really like the simplistic uncluttered view of the mil-dot.

OR, have we already beat that horse?




After being a die hard MOA user and then being forced to switch- mils all the way. Stop thinking in inches. It's just numbers on paper and a turret and tenths are easier to think in than quarters. The reticle is a ruler. All you do is spot the impact, "read" the correction with the reticle and dial or hold it.



As for ranging with a reticle..... No. At least not with any semblance of accuracy. Has it been done? Yes. Can it be done? Yes. However, batting averages will be mighty low.

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Originally Posted by Ringman
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What if you forget your RF........


What if God changed His mind. We would not exist.


Very true....

In a bind you could use the mil reticle to help with range estimation, but you will need to apply yourself....carry on!

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Great input. I may buy one of each to decide which I prefer.


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Originally Posted by Formidilosus


As for ranging with a reticle..... No. At least not with any semblance of accuracy. Has it been done? Yes. Can it be done? Yes. However, batting averages will be mighty low.



Well, a guy at least needs to know how to do it.

In the field on game during conditions when a rangefinder won't function (when it's raining, snowing, or just a mist in the air) is an example. We "know" the size of the target as approximate and can at least use the ranging function on our ballistic program. I know I would in those conditions on a hunt if I saw something that I wanted to shoot.

As far as accuracy, I guess you'd be surprised since you say it can't be done with any.

At just about every Tac match in the country there will be a stage that requires the shooter to range targets without the use of a laser rangefinder. We do it frequently at our monthly local shoots as well. The stage may be one that no shooting even takes place; everyone just lays down and does the exercise on the targets and records their calculation on paper and hands it in as homework. It's graded and scored.

The guy who won the stage at the SHTRC ranged every target within a couple of yards.

Sometimes we have to range under time then engage under time to be graded smile

Last edited by rcamuglia; 10/21/14.

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You think I haven't milled targets?



Should you know how to do it? Of course. But animals aren't steel plates that are exactly measured and known. Even during matches where the plate size is exactly known hit rates on 8-12 inch targets is pretty low.

The only thing the military uses mil ranging for is emergencies. It works better on humans being the we are tall and therefor have room for error.

What's the error if the deer we think is 17in back to brisket, is really 19 inches and we mill it at 1 mil? Answer- far from anything resembling accurate.

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50 yards and .3 mil with my .264.


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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If it's ranged at a mil and I held in the center of the target, at .3 mil error (Max for your example) it would still result in a dead deer



Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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I doubt anyone would think that a 50 yard ranging error is sufficient at 500 yards. Some rounds will be able to swallow the error and must won't. That all goes into the shot process. Those that shoot and compete should get that, but most don't.

The point being that reticles are not principally for ranging, instead they are for holds.

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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Originally Posted by Reloder28
I believe I comprehend the basic logistic difference between the Mil-Dot & the Moa. What is interesting to me is the differing value of the two.

1 Moa = 1" @ 100 yds
1 Mil = 3.6" @ 100 yds

Would it be prudent to choose a mil-dot reticle having no previous experience but possessing the will to learn it? While MOA would be a clearly simple choice due to familiarity I really like the simplistic uncluttered view of the mil-dot.

OR, have we already beat that horse?




After being a die hard MOA user and then being forced to switch- mils all the way. Stop thinking in inches. It's just numbers on paper and a turret and tenths are easier to think in than quarters. The reticle is a ruler. All you do is spot the impact, "read" the correction with the reticle and dial or hold it.



As for ranging with a reticle..... No. At least not with any semblance of accuracy. Has it been done? Yes. Can it be done? Yes. However, batting averages will be mighty low.


remember this is a hunting forum. its different than at the range shooting at known distances. maybe your shooting position might also prevent you from keeping your scope on target enough after the shot to be able to use the reticle as a ruler. and if its a ruler we are talking about a MOA based reticle like the MOAR works too.

for me its easier in the field to measure the size of rocks or other targets that I might be shooting at with a MOA reticle.

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True dat


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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It's time for a rcamuglia/Formidilosus unknown distance shootout! Kidding...

So - if there's an 18" (horns not body) antelope at an unknown range, but out like 600-700 meters, no LRF handy. A guy is better off mils, moa, FFP, or SFP?


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Originally Posted by oregontripper
It's time for a rcamuglia/Formidilosus unknown distance shootout! Kidding...

So - if there's an 18" (horns not body) antelope at an unknown range, but out like 600-700 meters, no LRF handy. A guy is better off mils, moa, FFP, or SFP?


Get closer. grin

Really.


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Originally Posted by Reloder28


1 Moa = 1" @ 100 yds
have we already beat that horse?


You might have already beat it.........but MOA is not the same as IPHY. this topic is flawed from the start. frown

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