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http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/vaccine-deniers-abuse-appeal-authority/

A Facebook friend posted an article today, based on a paper by Peter Doshi, a well-known anti-vaccine activist. The article claimed to show proof that the flu vaccine doesn't work, and that it's "dangerous". If you were convinced by that article, or others like it, you should read THIS article, which gives some perspective on Dr. Doshi, who is neither a Medical Doctor nor a research scientist. His "specialty", if you can call it that, is akin to that of an art critic in the art world. He can't "do", but he can sure criticize, and because there are no standards for being a critic, he is not accountable.

Yet he and other vaccine deniers, AIDS-deniers (of which he is also one!), and other self-proclaimed "experts" get national and international publicity for their whacko assertions. (Thanks a lot, Internet!) Doshi would be laughed out of the cafeteria at the NIH if he espoused his well-debunked "theories" there, but since there is no editorial control of the 'Net, scientifically ignorant folks can tout his stuff as if it actually has some credibility.

The plain fact about the annual flu vaccine is this: the overwhelming consensus of medical doctors & researchers, public health authorities and Infectious Diseases specialists is that the high rate of influenza vaccination over the past 20 years has been a true success and has saved lives and has done so with exemplary safety. As a primary care physician on the frontlines of disease diagnosis and treatment over that time frame and longer, I can personally attest to this medical fact. I get a flu vaccine every year, I give it to my patients, and I encourage all the people I care about to get their Fluvax every fall.
Read this article.

Don't get duped by a blind man into gouging your own eyes out.


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Unfortunately many people have not witnessed the crippling affects of polio, mumps, measles, rubella, and small pox. Vaccines have helped millions of people. I think we have too much free time on our hands and are constantly searching for a great evil to fight.

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I've had flu shots for years. I haven't seen
a down side to them.


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Doc,
What about these anecdotal stories we hear from time to time about severe negative side effects? The most recent that I stumbled across were in regards to HPV vaccines. Are these real for a small percentage or just coincidental? Thanks.


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I visit another website (which I won't name, but its name is a little bit like gun breakers...) mostly for laughs. It's a hotbed of conspiracy nuts, anti-vaccine types, and espousers of all things whackjob.

I've tried, but there's no way to convince those mental midgets that vaccines aren't a plot against humanity. It wouldn't bother me that some of them will learn the hard way, but the travesty is that their children may suffer through their parents' idiocy.


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As long as a vaccine doesn't affect us like flouride does....just sayin' whistle


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Doshi needs to contract influenza just once......and he'll change his tune. I'm talking about real influenze, and not one of the other myriad of other virus that roll around each Winter that people get and say they have "the flu".

Fever, body aches, high fever, sweats, debilitating fatigue and a week in bed is the best that can happen. The real "flu" is no joke. Watching a loved one suffer through it will make you think reall hard about the benefits of vaccines.


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Originally Posted by EvilTwin
As long as a vaccine doesn't affect us like flouride does....just sayin' whistle


That's all a Communist plot!


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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Originally Posted by 280shooter
Doc,
What about these anecdotal stories we hear from time to time about severe negative side effects? The most recent that I stumbled across were in regards to HPV vaccines. Are these real for a small percentage or just coincidental? Thanks.


No vaccine is 100% effective, nor 100% "safe". Adverse reactions, although rare, are real and do occur. Whether a specific case is a true reaction or is a coincidence has to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis.

FWIW, most primary care docs don't have the expertise to identify a true adverse reaction, except in cases where the patient has an anaphylactic reaction to the shot within 20-40 minutes. If somebody has an adverse health event 12-24 hours or more after receiving an immunization, the cause is in serious doubt and can only be pinpointed by experts.


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Going on two years ago, my mom took her last flu vaccine. That's because doctors have barred her from taking another, since the last one she took paralyzed her from the waist down. After much rehab, she can still barely walk with a cane. She has recently switched back to a walker. Before her paralysis, she was amazingly active and agile for her age, getting around like an average sixty year old, despite being eighty. There are real dangers associated with it, which magnify with the frequency with which you take it.

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I think the part of problem is that the Medical Community don't accept that soemtimes they get things very, very wrong.

I believe it is now thought that start of widespread polio and small pox vaccinations helped to spread AIDS and HEP A across West Africa.

This was not down to any sinister conspiracy, but rather due to poorly trained "medical workers/volunteers" re using dirty/contaminated needles and other equipment...

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Originally Posted by hatari
Doshi needs to contract influenza just once......and he'll change his tune. I'm talking about real influenze, and not one of the other myriad of other virus that roll around each Winter that people get and say they have "the flu".

Fever, body aches, high fever, sweats, debilitating fatigue and a week in bed is the best that can happen. The real "flu" is no joke. Watching a loved one suffer through it will make you think reall hard about the benefits of vaccines.
Gee. I guess my dad, a practicing internist since about 1960, was wrong all those thousands of times he's diagnosed influenza in his patients and family members.

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Pete... FWIW, the AIDS epidemic came along well after the greatest push of smallpox and polio vaccination in Africa. Hep A is spread by fecal-oral contamination (human fecal contamination of drinking water), not by dirty needles.

That's not to say that poor medical hygiene doesn't play a role. The first known Ebola outbreak WAS due to nurses in central Africa re-using non-sterilized needles/syringes, the big Zaire Ebola outbreak in 1995 was greatly amplified by non-sterile surgeries, and the current west African outbreak has been amplified by non-sterile medical procedures as well.

Unfortunately, we (the global community) have failed to provide the funding for even the most basic public health measures in Africa, which would include things like public sanitation and safe drinking water, let alone autoclaves to sterilize re-usable syringes and needles and operating room equipment.


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Hawk, as usual your posts on this thread (like all immunization topics) are irrelevant, short-sighted, personally biased, and lacking even a shred of scientific fact. Thanks for sharing.


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...it's the flouride Doc...


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<sigh>

In McCoy's voice: "He's brain-dead, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a miracle-worker!!"



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Originally Posted by DocRocket
Hawk, as usual your posts on this thread (like all immunization topics) are short-sighted, personally biased, and lacking even a shred of scientific fact. Thanks for sharing.
Each vaccination is a dice roll. You may argue as to how many sides there are on the dice, but the high number comes up from time to time, and with devastating effect. I just think you folks shouldn't be so actively suppressing that information. People have a right to know.

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Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by EvilTwin
As long as a vaccine doesn't affect us like flouride does....just sayin' whistle


That's all a Communist plot!


No.

It's the International Banking Cartel. They stand to make billions from an Ebola outbreak. They're already racking up huge profits manufacturing supplies in response to the crisis.

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Originally Posted by The_Real_Hawkeye
Originally Posted by DocRocket
Hawk, as usual your posts on this thread (like all immunization topics) are short-sighted, personally biased, and lacking even a shred of scientific fact. Thanks for sharing.
Each vaccination is a dice roll. You may argue as to how many sides there are on the dice, but the high number comes up from time to time, and with devastating effect. I just think you folks shouldn't be so actively suppressing that information. People have a right to know.


No one is "suppressing information", dumbass! The very fact that Doshi's garbage is given ink in reputable medical journals is proof of that!

However, the OVERWHELMING preponderance of actual peer-reviewd medical journal articles based on actual peer-reviewed research REFUTE Doshi's claims!

As the article I cited points out, it's the vaccine-deniers who want to suppress information, and do so with great vehemence on their websites. They ridicule people like Dr. Paul Offit, who as one example supports influenza vaccination and whose rotavirus vaccine has demonstrably saved HALF A MILLION children's lives worldwide.


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Originally Posted by DocRocket
Hawk, as usual your posts on this thread (like all immunization topics) are short-sighted, personally biased, and lacking even a shred of scientific fact. Thanks for sharing.


How right you are, Doc. Mycoplasms, parainfluenza, respiratory syncytial virus, rhinovirus, and even Legonella can all give flu like symptoms. Without serologic confirmation, it is easy to tell the patient they have the flu or a flu like virus, especially if the treatment is the same. Patient goes home, rests, pumps the fluids, recovers, and assumes they had "the flu".

Some strains are more virulent and violent than others. People old enought to remember and to contract the 1969 strain of "Hong Kong flu" will attest that was a nasty SOB that I wouldn't wish on even Hawk. wink



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