Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Army wants a harder hitting handgun

Well, maybe not all the teams, but Seal Team 6 sure did (ie, M66 .357 Smiths. :-)

I knew that the old Sharkman was lying when he said how many rds that they put thru those styofoam guns , of "full charge magnum ammo".

You can't simulate somebody trying to kill you.

I understand we can only do the best we can to prepare for those situations. I get it.

My point is: nobody knows how they are going to respond in real combat, where somebody has got to live and somebody has got to die. Some guys that can't shoot worth a damn pull through every time and some guys that are excellent shots on the range wind up dead.

Have several, with the Rockola and Winchester my favorites.

Then again, I have several that have been completely reworked for .45 Win Mag...yes, that's right. No questions about quilted Chicom penetration with those!!!

Sometime back I actually did acquire a National Postal Meter M1. Need to shoot it one of these days. The good bullets designed for it are not easy to find, however.

I think one outfit has now got an AR lower which can use grease gun magazines in .45 ACP, which are still fairly easy to buy. Combined with an appropriate .45 ACP upper, one would gain decent velocity and power, and still have a fairly handy weapon.

.223 It's an AR15 pistol.

what is the difference between a 357 Sig and a 357 magnum ?????

norm

.357 Sig is a necked down .40 S&W.

If the military ever gives up on the 9mm, the .40S&W is the most likely replacement. The .45 ACP fans are just dreaming.

Mostly the rim means revolver.
semi-rimmed means better feeding in semi auto pistols.

Some of you 1911 fans need to talk to some real armorers. Not gun queers. Not hobbyists. I mean guys that stand in a room and fix broken schit for 8 hours a day.



Travis

Well, that's where the science says you're wrong.

First example: since WWI, students of aircraft dogfights have known that pilots who survived/won 3 or more dogfights would go on to become multiple aces the vast majority of the time. But the majority of rookie pilots were shot down and killed before they got the necessary combat experience. Boelke and Richtofen used that information to teach new pilots how to survive their first 3 dogfights, and those guys became overwhelmingly successful.

The US found this to be true, and taught dogfighting until the VietNam era. They stopped in the late 50's and in the skies over Viet Nam our fighter pilots got their tails waxed by Chinese and North VietNamese pilots. We started teaching dogfighting again (eg, the Navy's Top Gun program) and once again our pilots enjoyed success in combat.

Switch to current reality based training. Up until the late 90's police gunfight performance was abysmal... hit probabilities of less than 20% nationwide, and lots of officers getting shot in gunfights. Agencies that have implemented RBT protocols are now seeing hit probabilities of 90% and greater, and far fewer cops are getting hit by incoming rounds. One agency I know of had their hit probability go to 97% and the outcomes of all their OIS's in the 2 years following their RBT training were extremely positive: 34 OIS's, all 34 felons were shot and incapacitated, 27 of them DRT (=low lawsuit probability) and ZERO officers shot.

Training people in combatives under realistic conditions greatly increases the probability that they will perform to expectations successfully in actual combat.

Our forces have been pussified to the point that they can't physically handle a weapon that worked well for close to seventy five years.

Go figure.

I'm pretty sure there were a bunch of combat infantrymen and officers in the European and Asian theaters who couldn't hit the side of a barn with their issued 1911s.

Some could, and those are the ones we heard about.

My Dad was one - not a combat officer but a surgeon about a mile behind the lines. Even as a medical officer he was issued a .45. Said he couldn't hit squat with it. He got a Luger and said he liked it much better and could actually hit things with it.

He did like the 1911 since it made a good club. He was a boxer in college and pretty good at handling physical confrontations. He stayed in Europe until 1946 and he said after the war a lot of the "German boys" (he was about 32 years old when the war ended) were pretty disgruntled by the outcome and there were some random assaults on American soldiers but he felt more confident walking the streets of Frankfurt with his "club".

That's a Marine. That's a first model MEU-SOC 1911.

Simunitions or something equivalent. Even airsoft will do, but you train for it with force on force training.

Okay mark this day down in history, because I'm calling it. The US Military will NEVER adopt the .40 S&W. It MAY find some use in small units but it will never be adopted for general use.

The main reason being that the .40 S&W beats pistols to death, and sends them all to an early grave. With the energy it generates, it really should be in a pistol the size of a .45 ACP, then it would have some real longevity.

My cousin was a Marine armorer who served in Iraq. He found the 1911 preferable to work on over the M9.

Bullchit. I trained with people from SEAL team 2 in the early 1990's. I've trained with guys who were from 2nd Ranger BN back then also. And I've trained just a couple of years ago with a US Army Reserve unit. And I'm here to tell you, from what I saw, the Army Reserve unit of today, would wipe the floor with Spec-Ops soldiers of days past.

Just my observation, YMMV

Crane is the repository for the Department Of The Navy, but regardless, point being, they are NOT using POS M-9s..

I have spoken to them and when a 1911 is built correctly it is extremely trouble free.