Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles .30-30 vs big bore lever rounds

I've killed multiples with both rounds. The 30-30 kicks a whole lot less, but the 45-70 can be loaded down significantly and still make a big hole. Try 11gr of Unique under a 400-405gr cast bullet with NO FILLER for about 1000 fps. My kids can shoot that load all day long, and would if I let them.

I have not seen a lot of difference between the 30-30, 35, 44 and 45-70 on smallish Southern deer at woods ranges. All have gone down pretty quickly if hit properly. I have noticed that a hard 45-70 bullet at low/medium velocity damages less meat than the others mentioned with expanding bullets.

As lever guns go, I have killed deer with the 30-30, .348, & 405. The .405 definitely makes a bigger hole and can just about pass through a deer from any angle; but as an earlier poster said " dead is dead".

Deer are easy to kill and the 30-30 does it quite effectively with less wasted meat (and is easier to carry). It is always interesting to use different rifles and cartridges, but they are not necessary.

405wcf

I've used the .30-30 as well as the .450 Marlin on a fair number of critters. I killed a big Shiras bull with the .450.

I think the big bores make critters show more signs of a hit than the .30-30, but it didn't kill them much faster. The .450 does hit with AUTHORITY...on both ends.

Paint, my experience with the lever guns mimicked yours to a tee.

I'm supposing that as "Steelhead" stated, deer size critters are much impressed with velocity and not the lack thereof.

I ended up getting rid of a 45/70 and a 444. As hard as my shoulder was pounded at the range I expected impressive results in the field. Never did see impressive field results and I stuck with it for about 13 years.

Shod

My .450 killed my Moose significantly quicker than my .30-30 did. And my .450 Bull was bigger too. It also was was a much quicker kill than the Cow Moose I took with my .30-06.

A common misconception is that the 45-70 was used as a buffalo hunting gun that led to the demise of the herds. Fact is that almost all of the buffalo were dead a decade before the 45-70 was invented in 1873. While buffalo hunters took a lot, an extended drought in the 1850's and 1860's took most. Laws were passed in 1874 banning buffalo hunting to preserve the handful left.

It was developed as a military round and used during the indian wars giving slightly more power and range than the 45 colt revolvers. It was considered a borderline hunting cartridge in it's day and not used often. The 30-30 when invented was considered an improvement. By the 1890's it was all but dead. It lay dormant and almost unused until revived by Marlin along with some colorful advertising in the early 1970's.

With the fairly recent development of much hotter loads it has become a legitimate big game round. But any colorful history as a hunting round is mostly fiction. I'd not be surprised if more game had been killed with 45-70 in the 21st century than in the 19th and 20th centuries combined.

I owned one from 1976 up until 4-5 years ago when I finally sold it. For deer/black bear size game I'd just as soon use a 30-30. If you start talking about bigger bear, moose, elk, etc., I have no doubt it is a little better if the hotter loads are used. Probably no better, maybe less effective, if the old black powder equivalent loads are used.

But recoil is impressive with those loads, exceeding 375 mag recoil. I've seen no proof that it is any better killer of the big stuff than a heavy loaded 30-06 with far less recoil. If I'm getting 375 mag recoil, I'd rather have a 375. That is why I no longer own a 45-70.

The 30-30, in the U.S. anyway, is the original high velocity small bore smokeless round. In it's day, it was considered a very flat shooter and magic on all kinds of animals.

Of course, it has been surpassed by many rounds in the velocity arena, but it remains a very effective round on deer out to 200 yards or a little better. I've used it a whole lot and I can't really tell much difference in the way it kills verses just about anything you want to name. Like anything else, there have been some spectacular kills and some inexplicable ones that resulting in trailing game.

As for your original question, well that was one that was answered in the 1890s when the 30-30 was marketed as and was generally seen as by most knowledgeable hunters as a significant improvement over the bigger bores with lower velocities.

I view it as for game under 400-500 lbs. all of them are more than sufficient i.e. you are not going to notice a big difference in results and if you do it will be most likely shot placement followed by bullet integrity. I can't buy the old I have experienced multiple deer run off with good hits story with either the 30-30 or the 45-70.

I myself have lost one deer in my hunting career and it was a doe hit with a cast 405 gr slug out of a 45-70. There was a lot of blood and a good trail and we gave her several hours to die but after jumping her 3 times while following her up she crossed onto a farm where we couldn't go. Cant be sure but I chalk this one up to a pulled shot certainly not a clean shot thru the chest area.

As to lever action rounds, I've killed with 30-30, 35, 375, 444 and 45-70 heavy .
the 30-30 kills as fast as the 35, the 375 444 and 45-70 kill surely but rarely buckle their knees.
I've never seen death come so quickly as with a .257 weatherby with a 117 round nose. Even at 300 yards.
So if your hunting thick...45-70 with a 405 cast. Open...er areas, 30-30 with a 150 Hornady.

Ive shot several deer with the 30-30,it has always worked.
I have a 450 marlin guidegun I bought to go after moose.it carries pretty well,when I do carry it. recoil is way less than a 12 guage duck gun
I haven't used it on deer yet,but have loaded the 300 gr tsx flatnose,and have to believe it would really have a lot of shock,with a 1/4" hollow point.
perhaps the big bore shooters use too heavy weight bullets for deer?

here is a 300 tsx,recovered from a dirt bank at 170yards.
thats a quarter ,included for scale.

by using light bullets your essentially turning them into the 'express rifles' of 125 or so years ago and they had a hell of a reputation for killing light skin game at short ranges....when you see rounds like 45-90 Express or 50-95 Express it means they intended to use a light weight bullet and were supposed to be used for things like deer and sometimes the big cats due to the impressive shock value not for heavy game though they were big bores......and this was with black powder velocities....cant imagine the higher smokeless velocities make them any worse

I've had deer run over 100yds in South Texas after being hit with a 300 win mag and deer seize up and crumple at the same range from a 243. The one deer I've killed with my Marlin Guide Gun also ran 100yds, but that was primarily due to a lung shot with a RNFP hardcast bullet.

I've not shot anything with my 30-30 yet, but the one lever gun I've used the most and noticed the most consistent freight-train smack down performance is the lever gun in 44mag. It is slow enough that it doesn't just rip through, but heavy and powerful enough that it fully penetrates...even both shoulders on a big boar hog.

I think there is an element of bullet type, velocity, and animal size where the fabled "knockdown power" becomes most apparent.

I've killed a dozen or so deer with a 30-30 win 94,,, it works well, soft point 170 grain sierra bullets seem to work the best for me handloading but Winchester 150 grain power points work well on deer as well.

The 30-30 doesn't do the damage that a larger or faster bullet does but put one in the lungs and you will have a dead deer.

My winchester 94 in 32 special has dropped its fair share of moose and whitetails.
I got a Stevens lever in 35 remington model 435 that has been good to me on black bear.
My Winchester 86 in 45-70 kicks like a mule in comparison and has not killed them any deader. Just my arms from carrying the thing.

Doc

I agree with using the 170 grain Sierra FN. In my single shot Topper H&R's I use a max load of LE powder in Win cases with WLR primers @2300fps(data is on the Hodgdon website)and this loading has produced two DRT deer so far. I highly recommend this bullet and load.

I've killed deer with a bunch of different calibers and they've all worked well.

But, I killed my first deer with a .30-30 and he was DRT. I think I'll always have a soft spot for the caliber and will always hunt with it from time to time. I suppose that in the area I hunt the .30-30 is really all I'd ever need.

150 grain SP's have never let me down.