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I've been reading over the back issues of American Handgunner available online and have become enamored with the early IPSC 1911's, particularly the Pachmayr Combat Special as used by Ross Seyfried and others.

I'm thinking of putting together a 1911 along the lines of the Combat Special and have a few questions: first, should I "build" at all when I can buy a Les Baer Boss .45 off the shelf? It has most of the features that the Combat Special had (hard chrome frame, blue slide flat topped and serrated, "buried Bomar" sights, extended thumb safety, etc.) as well as the usual Baer build quality.

Second question, if not Baer, how about a new production Colt Mark IV/Series 80 Gold Cup? It has the sights already installed, and I would likely send it to Clark Custom Guns to have the slide flat topped and serrated and the frame hard chromed; either them or Accurate Plating and Weaponry.

Next option: New production Colt Series 70. It would need everything the Gold Cup needs, but would require new sights.

What are the relative merits of a Colt-based build versus an off the shelf gun like the Baer Boss? I would not order one from Baer; I'm not waiting 18 months for this gun, I'd lose interest waiting that long.

Any thoughts on the Pachmayr Combat Special or the early IPSC 1911's in general? I freely admit that this build is based on aesthetics alone, and my desire for a certain "look" and feel, rather than any practicalities. I'm also on the hunt for early IPSC leather, particularly a Bianchi Chapman High Ride or a Milt Sparks Hackathorn Special and associated magazine carriers.

Last edited by Oregon45; 10/23/14.
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I've always liked the two-tone 1911 from a practical standpoint; the frame wears like iron and the top doesn't reflect a lot of light.

You can pick up a slightly used Baer as a base gun for $1500 or less which is likely the most economical path to what you're after.

[Linked Image]

If you want a modern day version of the Pachmayr pistol by one of the gunsmiths that made the original, check here .... the price is @ $4600 the last time I checked.

http://www.pistoldynamics.com/CS_Intro_2011.html

[Linked Image]

Last edited by 41magfan; 10/23/14.

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To really do a "retro" 1911 right would take some work. If I were building a truly retro 1911, my first step would be to find a real Swenson safety, that will be the hardest part to find.

Next up, an MS Safari Arms beavertail grip safety. Or have someone build you a Jim Hoag style grip safety (I just built one of those last month, so cool).

The next difficult find would be a real Bo-Mar sight, because if you're going to go to the trouble, it might as well say Bo-Mar on it.

The gun should have a Bar-Sto barrel. Front sight should be staked and silver soldered, no dovetail up front. Most 1911 slides that were serrated were not flat, but some were.

Should be built on a Series 70 or earlier Colt, 70 series preferable.

Hammer should be bobbed Colt spur hammer, or a real Commander hammer.

Trigger should be the aluminum 3 hole King/Videcki style.

Late '70's guns all had 20 LPI checkering on the front strap. Many had a 1911 GI mainspring housing that was checkered 20 LPI and the checkering extended to the rear of the frame.

ABSOLUTELY no front strap under-cutting; that's not correct for the period.

ETA - Sorry hit post before I was done

Rear of the slide should be serrated 40lpi. Some were checkered, but most were serrated.

Trigger guard should be checkered 40lpi, and about 50% of the guns of that era had squared trigger guards.

Last edited by GunGeek; 10/24/14.
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Ah yes, the good old days, when IPSC was relevant, and no one had even heard of Gaston Glock.
A matched pair built by the other half of the Pachmayr team, Craig Wetstein.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


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Raul Walters had one of these, 1978. He did a speed load of a mag, and the checkered ebony grip panels split on him. That was $150 at the time., about $800, in today's money.

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Originally Posted by Savuti

Ah yes, the good old days, when IPSC was relevant, and no one had even heard of Gaston Glock.
A matched pair built by the other half of the Pachmayr team, Craig Wetstein.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Savuti,

Who's grip safety is that? I like it.

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Baer "Boss" can be found in stock at various Baer dealers:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=449923904

though I'd be tempted to order one with the 1.5" option, where they guarantee it would shoot 1.5" groups at 50 yards.

Colt Special Combat Gov't is another option, though the darn things cost almost as much as Les Baers.

I think one of those would hold its value better than any customs.


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Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by Savuti

Ah yes, the good old days, when IPSC was relevant, and no one had even heard of Gaston Glock.
A matched pair built by the other half of the Pachmayr team, Craig Wetstein.


Savuti,

Who's grip safety is that? I like it.



I haven't had them apart for awhile, but I don't recall any maker's marks on them.
Whose GS would an ex-Pachmayr 'smith have used in 1981?


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It looks handmade and fitted - they did that in the early days at Pachmayr.

If you'll notice, the frame cut for the grip safety isn't what was/is the standard .250 radius we know today.


Last edited by 41magfan; 10/27/14.

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Back in the IPSC days before all the "race" guns became the standard, in addition to the Bo-Mar sights, the Behlert Adjustable sights were also very popular.

L.W.


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Originally Posted by Savuti
Originally Posted by GunGeek
Originally Posted by Savuti

Ah yes, the good old days, when IPSC was relevant, and no one had even heard of Gaston Glock.
A matched pair built by the other half of the Pachmayr team, Craig Wetstein.


Savuti,

Who's grip safety is that? I like it.



I haven't had them apart for awhile, but I don't recall any maker's marks on them.
Whose GS would an ex-Pachmayr 'smith have used in 1981?


Probably something they made in house. The only commercially available beavertails back then were the MS Safari Arms ones (which were cool). There were a number of smith's who welded up a grip safety, or sliver soldered metal and re-shaped.

I was hoping it was something someone offered at some point; it's cool.

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If you go down that path I believe I have an as new Bomar sight in my stash.


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Originally Posted by GunGeek


The only commercially available beavertails back then were the MS Safari Arms ones (which were cool). There were a number of smith's who welded up a grip safety, or sliver soldered metal and re-shaped.



Here's what the MS Safari Arms grip safety looks like.

MM

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[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Oregon45
I freely admit that this build is based on aesthetics alone, and my desire for a certain "look" and feel, rather than any practicalities.


O, the horror.

Kinda like spray painting a Savage to look like an Echols Classic?


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Originally Posted by Savuti

Ah yes, the good old days, when IPSC was relevant, and no one had even heard of Gaston Glock.
A matched pair built by the other half of the Pachmayr team, Craig Wetstein.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

�..beautiful Pete, simply beautiful. I wonder what ever happened to Roy Erwins Auto Shop guns or his Swensons???? I didn't remember that you shot in the 80 Nationals when they issued everyone the truncated cone ammo�.were you shooting with us at Powder Creek then? Sorry, my memory isn't what it used to be.


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No, my intro to IPSC (and Roy) was when I attended Ray's academy in the summer of '80. I remember shooting with you at Mill Creek the following year.

I imagine some court appointed executor sold Roy's guns at wholesale. They're likely someone's glove box gun today.


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Originally Posted by Savuti
...I imagine some court appointed executor sold Roy's guns at wholesale. They're likely someone's glove box gun today.

...did Roy ever show you his Swenson guns?????? He had a set of consecutively serial numbered pre-series 70 Colts, a Combat Commander and the coolest handgun I've EVER seen, a full Swenson customized Browning HiPower (squared trigger guard, S&W K-sights, ambi-safety--the whole enchilada!!)

Supposedly he put them in a safety deposit box when he went to the Wetstein guns. I'd love to know what happened to them.


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Originally Posted by Savuti
Ah yes, the good old days, when IPSC was relevant


I've seen videos from the old days. "Practical" shooting was never "practical". And any attempts at making it more relevant (IDPA) just get more ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Leanwolf
Back in the IPSC days before all the "race" guns became the standard


Since the OP is going to have to spend several thousand dollars to have a custom gunsmith recreate one of the original IPSC guns, I'd say that's pretty good evidence that "race" guns have been popular all along.

There are compensated, dot sighted, open guns now...sure. But the guy who shows up with a box stock Glock or 1911 isn't competing against those. And open class isn't even the most popular division, so I'd hardly call open guns the "standard".
___________________________________

Competitive shooting is a sport, nothing more or less. As soon as you test skills against a timer and publish a ranking after the match, all practicality goes out the window because people want to win. It's the nature of the beast. If it's gonna be practical, there needs to be no timers and no rankings and no divisions.

Then it'll just be practice. But as soon as guys get together to practice shooting they're gonna want to know who's more accurate (scoring) and who's faster (timers) and then argue about how gear and calibers effected their shooting (power factors and divisions). Take away everything that makes competitive shooting impractical and within a year it'll have recreated itself.

Last edited by Bluedreaux; 10/29/14.

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Greg, yes I saw those Swensons. I was present when Roy called Armand because he couldn't remember how to field strip the HP since Swenson had built in some type of barrel lock system of his own design. Roy wanted to sell the gun, but was unable to take it down in front of prospective buyers!
It was an interesting conversation, with Roy trying not to let on that he couldn't remember how to strip the gun because he hadn't fired it in 5 years!


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I guess "Practical" is a relative term. When IPSC was born the only other pistol shooting disciplines were NRA Bullseye and PPC.
I'll take IPSC over both, every day of the week.

That said, I stopped taking IPSC seriously ca. '83-84 when I saw the first compensated 1911 appear at a local match. Since then I've shot some IPSC, but only for the fun and the excersize.
I have no experience with IDPA so won't comment.

Oh, and the cost of turning a stock Series 70 GM into what's pictured above, about $850 in 1980s dollars.

Last edited by Savuti; 10/29/14.

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