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Originally Posted by 4ager
Lt, I know you have dogs. I'm sure you've had one or two that have come down with something that's terminal. What do you do with them? Do you let whatever it is take them in it's full due course, or do you put them down at some point?


That's completely different. If this woman's family wants her dead, then they need to kill her.


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quite a while ago, my best friend, closer than a brother, had cancer.
He was on this morphine drip to kill the pain, but not enough. He was basically so bad that he was pooping his insides as they were falling apart. I found out later his wife had found him on the floor looking for his pistol, which she removed. I have that pistol now. He had no hope, no future, and was in tremendous pain. All he wanted was someone to bump the drip, to help him end it.
I could not do it, legal considerations aside, because of religious beliefs, and consider myself the coward for not helping my friend in the time of need.
I would suggest anyone using terms like quitter, coward, and so on, has never been one on one with these situations, are they wouldn't be so loose with words.
In conversation with medical professionals in the retirement area i work, while illegal, if the truth be known m.d.'s have been helping in this area for years with the terminally ill.
You can make of it as you will, but it is probably an act of kindness.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
If she wasn't hot it would never be news, and no, I don't.


Now I understand why you got two F.U.'s before 8 a.m. yesterday.....


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by 4ager
Lt, I know you have dogs. I'm sure you've had one or two that have come down with something that's terminal. What do you do with them? Do you let whatever it is take them in it's full due course, or do you put them down at some point?


That's completely different. If this womans family wants her dead, then they need to kill her.


They essentially are putting her down, or allowing her to be put down.

It's not different at all. It's about the choice as to whether to allow a life that you care about to end through pain and suffering, or to end that life when the pain and suffering is avoidable but the soon-to-happen death is not. We put our pets down out of compassion, because we don't want them to suffer. Yet, we call our own "cowards" when they are facing the same fate as those pets and want the same compassionate end we offer/give the pets.

There is no difference in the compassion, but there is in OUR acceptance of it.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by RoninPhx
quite a while ago, my best friend, closer than a brother, had cancer.
He was on this morphine drip to kill the pain, but not enough. He was basically so bad that he was pooping his insides as they were falling apart. I found out later his wife had found him on the floor looking for his pistol, which she removed. I have that pistol now. He had no hope, no future, and was in tremendous pain. All he wanted was someone to bump the drip, to help him end it.
I could not do it, legal considerations aside, because of religious beliefs, and consider myself the coward for not helping my friend in the time of need.
I would suggest anyone using terms like quitter, coward, and so on, has never been one on one with these situations, are they wouldn't be so loose with words.
In conversation with medical professionals in the retirement area i work, while illegal, if the truth be known m.d.'s have been helping in this area for years with the terminally ill.
You can make of it as you will, but it is probably an act of kindness.


Excellent post, and I would have no problem being killed.


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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
I respect her privacy and right to a death of her choice as she looks down the barrel of a very cruel executioner.

Dying is a private matter in which the state should not be involved, when the patient is diagnosed terminal.


What he said


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by RoninPhx
quite a while ago, my best friend, closer than a brother, had cancer.
He was on this morphine drip to kill the pain, but not enough. He was basically so bad that he was pooping his insides as they were falling apart. I found out later his wife had found him on the floor looking for his pistol, which she removed. I have that pistol now. He had no hope, no future, and was in tremendous pain. All he wanted was someone to bump the drip, to help him end it.
I could not do it, legal considerations aside, because of religious beliefs, and consider myself the coward for not helping my friend in the time of need.
I would suggest anyone using terms like quitter, coward, and so on, has never been one on one with these situations, are they wouldn't be so loose with words.
In conversation with medical professionals in the retirement area i work, while illegal, if the truth be known m.d.'s have been helping in this area for years with the terminally ill.
You can make of it as you will, but it is probably an act of kindness.


Excellent post, and I would have no problem being killed.


Then, that's what she is doing. She's "being put down", by a doctor (as your pet is with a vet), and by her family as they allow the doctor to administer the dose. The only variation here is that the dose will be swallowed by her instead of injected by the doc.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by 4ager
Lt, I know you have dogs. I'm sure you've had one or two that have come down with something that's terminal. What do you do with them? Do you let whatever it is take them in it's full due course, or do you put them down at some point?


That's completely different. If this womans family wants her dead, then they need to kill her.


They essentially are putting her down, or allowing her to be put down.

It's not different at all. It's about the choice as to whether to allow a life that you care about to end through pain and suffering, or to end that life when the pain and suffering is avoidable but the soon-to-happen death is not. We put our pets down out of compassion, because we don't want them to suffer. Yet, we call our own "cowards" when they are facing the same fate as those pets and want the same compassionate end we offer/give the pets.

There is no difference in the compassion, but there is in OUR acceptance of it.


I have no problem with them killing her if that's what they want to do.


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Pat, I have been where you are. I have seen it too. Been in the room and seen the result, tagged the gun, and smelled the smells. You know what I'm talking about.

We just differ on what we see as understandable circumstances.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by 4ager
Lt, I know you have dogs. I'm sure you've had one or two that have come down with something that's terminal. What do you do with them? Do you let whatever it is take them in it's full due course, or do you put them down at some point?


That's completely different. If this womans family wants her dead, then they need to kill her.


They essentially are putting her down, or allowing her to be put down.

It's not different at all. It's about the choice as to whether to allow a life that you care about to end through pain and suffering, or to end that life when the pain and suffering is avoidable but the soon-to-happen death is not. We put our pets down out of compassion, because we don't want them to suffer. Yet, we call our own "cowards" when they are facing the same fate as those pets and want the same compassionate end we offer/give the pets.

There is no difference in the compassion, but there is in OUR acceptance of it.


I have no problem with them killing her if that's what they want to do.


That's essentially what they are doing, by acquiescence, within the legal framework of the state and the nation.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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My mom died of cancer. It took about 6 months from diagnosis to death. None of it was good but the last two months were awful. The human part of her was gone, she was just an animal that resembled my mom in pain beyond pain, couldn't talk, just lay there slowly writhing making tortured animal noises 'cause the medications weren't enough to control the pain.

I can't find any fault with anyone who chooses not to go down that path.

Tom


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Here be dragons ...
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Originally Posted by T_O_M
My mom died of cancer. It took about 6 months from diagnosis to death. None of it was good but the last two months were awful. The human part of her was gone, she was just an animal that resembled my mom in pain beyond pain, couldn't talk, just lay there slowly writhing making tortured animal noises 'cause the medications weren't enough to control the pain.

I can't find any fault with anyone who chooses not to go down that path.

Tom


Yep, and I will guarantee you that every compassionate fiber of your being wanted to end that suffering for her. But you couldn't. BT/DT.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Originally Posted by 4ager
The only variation here is that the dose will be swallowed by her instead of injected by the doc.


What's she waiting on then? Money from selling her misery? I could understand that...doing whatever you can for you family before you go. Now, THAT would impress me. Especially if she doesn't do it.


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Originally Posted by ltppowell
Originally Posted by 4ager
The only variation here is that the dose will be swallowed by her instead of injected by the doc.


What's she waiting on then? Money from selling her misery? I could understand that...doing whatever you can for you family before you go. Now, THAT would impress me. Especially if she doesn't do it.


She's putting her choice and her life out there to help others and to make a difference. And, she's waiting to say goodbye to her husband after his birthday.

Would you put your child's pet down on their birthday, or would you wait a day?

You're tying this up with the same bow that rightfully goes on those that are otherwise healthy and decide for selfish reasons to end their life and put their families through Hell because of their selfishness. This is the opposite of that; she is helping her family avoid going through the Hell that is the end of terminal cancer and she's doing it out of compassion and caring.



Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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Armchair quarterbacking someone's life is as wrong as any other instance of speculation on circumstances that haven't been personally experienced. How do people die? How should they die? These are questions that only God can answer. If you don't believe in God, you have a different perspective. I will stick with a belief in God.

There is nothing to tear at your heart, as to have a conversation with your daughter that is battling cancer and have her tell you she doesn't want to die. Being afraid of dying is different. For years we talked about everything, death wasn't something we talked about, but as the years progressed we understood it could shorten her life, substantially.

She was a wonderful person, robbed of one of her most valuable possessions, time. There is nothing fair about cancer and to try and understand it from a human perspective is impossible. I believe in God and that His plan, though different than mine, is somehow better.

We didn't talk about a convenient time for her to end her life, we stood by her and hoped for any miracle that would save her. It never happened and I sat in a hospital room, holding her hand as she took her last breath and cried.

That has been almost 4 years ago, I still cry every day, there is nothing like the loss of a child.

I see two different philosophies here. Some of us want to have absolute control and try to compartmentalize our lives for some satisfaction of control and organization. To those who do that, I am not condemning them, but I feel a stronger association with God and that it isn't up to us to make our lives so convenient that we forget who we are and why we are here.

Cancer is a merciless killer and I can't understand it, I miss Paige every day...

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Originally Posted by rockinbbar
Pat, I have been where you are. I have seen it too. Been in the room and seen the result, tagged the gun, and smelled the smells. You know what I'm talking about.

We just differ on what we see as understandable circumstances.




Funny this post gave me a better idea on pats objection to this, perhaps


Granted its a slippery slope to some

But this dialogue & legal ability to offer the only comfort & dignity for those grievously afflicted is long overdue IMO


I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Originally Posted by shrapnel


Armchair quarterbacking someone's life is as wrong as any other instance of speculation on circumstances that haven't been personally experienced. How do people die? How should they die? These are questions that only God can answer. If you don't believe in God, you have a different perspective. I will stick with a belief in God.

There is nothing to tear at your heart, as to have a conversation with your daughter that is battling cancer and have her tell you she doesn't want to die. Being afraid of dying is different. For years we talked about everything, death wasn't something we talked about, but as the years progressed we understood it could shorten her life, substantially.

She was a wonderful person, robbed of one of her most valuable possessions, time. There is nothing fair about cancer and to try and understand it from a human perspective is impossible. I believe in God and that His plan, though different than mine, is somehow better.

We didn't talk about a convenient time for her to end her life, we stood by her and hoped for any miracle that would save her. It never happened and I sat in a hospital room, holding her hand as she took her last breath and cried.

That has been almost 4 years ago, I still cry every day, there is nothing like the loss of a child.

I see two different philosophies here. Some of us want to have absolute control and try to compartmentalize our lives for some satisfaction of control and organization. To those who do that, I am not condemning them, but I feel a stronger association with God and that it isn't up to us to make our lives so convenient that we forget who we are and why we are here.

Cancer is a merciless killer and I can't understand it, I miss Paige every day...

[Linked Image]


"I'm sorry for your loss" is pretty hollow. I'll admit I shed a few tears reading that one. God bless you both.


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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For what little it's worth. You're not the only one crying for Paige today.


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Shrapnel,

I'm very sorry you had that cross to bear.

A parent should never have to bury a child, or God forbid watch as one dies. My heart goes out to you, She was a beautiful woman. She also knew you loved her til the end, and beyond. That is all any of us can ask.


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I don't know what God's plan is for me, but I know it can include my willingness to end my life early for the sake of my family and my own dignity.

Shrapnel, crying for your lose. I have a daughter and son.


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