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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
The first thing thrown out in any tyranny in history is religion.

Consider why.


Unless, of course, it's a tyranny by a religious cult (Iran, for example).


Originally Posted by Mannlicher
America needs to understand that our troops are not 'disposable'. Each represents a family; Fathers, Mothers, Sons, Daughters, Cousins, Uncles, Aunts... Our Citizens are our most valuable treasure; we waste far too many.
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53% of voters in 2012 consider themselves christian, approximately 75% voted red. Mostly GOP and independents.

Gop made up 29% of the electorate in 2012 and is reportedly down to 25% now.

Independents are up to a record high 42%.

Teaparty christians are already baling on the GOP and turning independent.

The GOP is headed for ruin under the leadership and direction of Rove and the like.

Kent

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It's no secret here that I believe religion does have a rightful place in politics. Culture matters imo.

That said, my stance, and the stance that most evangelicals hold is that social matters are not the role of the federal government, but it is the role of the states.

We don't care if NY legalized abortion. We just want the right for Alabama to ban it.

We don't care if California redefines marriage to include same sex couples, we just don't want their definition to be forced on us.

We do believe that there should be a national moral standard, but we believe that it would arise from the states being free to make their own social laws.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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...they looked in the mirror to find out why they've failed so miserably INSTEAD OF blaming everyone else and everything else under the sun for their failures.

The same group of people that give lip service to 'personal responsibility' don't want to take ANY responsibility as a group for their failure as a party.


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Originally Posted by krp
53% of voters in 2012 consider themselves christian, approximately 75% voted red. Mostly GOP and independents.

Gop made up 29% of the electorate in 2012 and is reportedly down to 25% now.

Independents are up to a record high 42%.

Teaparty christians are already baling on the GOP and turning independent.

The GOP is headed for ruin under the leadership and direction of Rove and the like.

Kent


My inner TRH.

+1


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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Originally Posted by 4ager
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
The first thing thrown out in any tyranny in history is religion.

Consider why.


Unless, of course, it's a tyranny by a religious cult (Iran, for example).


Allow me to make a correction to my statement.

Insert "free exercise of religion"


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by KFWA
but you are saying that 20-30% of the christian electorate all vote republican?

that split the vote thing works both ways


Yep! They make up 50% of Republicans.

Would any party survive if half of its electorate switched teams?


so 20-30% of the electorate makes up 50% of the GOP?

good grief, no wonder they can't win the white house. They need that % to drop noticeably.


Yup, I would say that number is right. It certainly was when I sat on the country Republican Central Committee.


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by krp
53% of voters in 2012 consider themselves christian, approximately 75% voted red. Mostly GOP and independents.

Gop made up 29% of the electorate in 2012 and is reportedly down to 25% now.

Independents are up to a record high 42%.

Teaparty christians are already baling on the GOP and turning independent.

The GOP is headed for ruin under the leadership and direction of Rove and the like.

Kent


My inner TRH.

+1


Also why I'm a registered conservative, not a registered republican


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
It's no secret here that I believe religion does have a rightful place in politics. Culture matters imo.

That said, my stance, and the stance that most evangelicals hold is that social matters are not the role of the federal government, but it is the role of the states.

We don't care if NY legalized abortion. We just want the right for Alabama to ban it.

We don't care if California redefines marriage to include same sex couples, we just don't want their definition to be forced on us.

We do believe that there should be a national moral standard, but we believe that it would arise from the states being free to make their own social laws.


You may not care but most evangelicals want social matters defined at the federal level and made into federal law.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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For some reason folks think the GOP makes up 50% of voters because Romney gets 48% of the vote, or Bush got 51%.

Dems 31%, repubs 25% and independents 42%.

It's just that dems and repubs give us our candidates.

Elections can still be won obviously... with the right candidate.

Kent

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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by krp
53% of voters in 2012 consider themselves christian, approximately 75% voted red. Mostly GOP and independents.

Gop made up 29% of the electorate in 2012 and is reportedly down to 25% now.

Independents are up to a record high 42%.

Teaparty christians are already baling on the GOP and turning independent.

The GOP is headed for ruin under the leadership and direction of Rove and the like.

Kent


My inner TRH.

+1


Also why I'm a registered conservative, not a registered republican


The Republicans here in Montana are trying to close the Republican primary to registered Republicans only which I favor. If this comes about I'll have to register as a Republican.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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No offense Tim, but you're a pagan and not among the evangelical people. I am. Evangelicals fear too much federal power in anything. We know that if we give the feds the authority to define marriage our way, we also give them the authority to define it another way. We're not dumb.

Would we like to see everybody embrace family values as we have them? Of course! But we know that using the federal government to force that is a double edged sword.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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Originally Posted by KFWA
you should consider what you gain as well though.

For example - single women voters represent 25% of the electorate and reproductive rights are the #1 voting motivation for them to turn out to the polls. Even if you don't think you'd get the single women vote, historically the only time this group turns out to vote in large numbers is when they think pro-choice is threatened.

...


Let's make sure we're clear here with a little translation. You're saying the #1 motivator for U.S. single women, as a demographic, to vote is to be able to kill a baby anytime and anywhere they choose?

If that's true it is obvious why this country is in such terrible shape.

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Originally Posted by Derby_Dude

The Republicans here in Montana are trying to close the Republican primary to registered Republicans only which I favor. If this comes about I'll have to register as a Republican.


I grew up in NY and it was like that there. I hated it. The party doesn't have to try to pull votes from other parties that way. It gives them too much power and no checks.

Then again, I'm not happy with ballot laws here in Alabama.

If a candidate runs as a democract or republican they need 5000 signatures to be on the ballot. If they run in any other party they need 45,000 signatures.

I think part of our problem is that the two dominant parties are just too powerful. They are out of touch because they can be.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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Originally Posted by Ramblin_Razorback
Originally Posted by KFWA
you should consider what you gain as well though.

For example - single women voters represent 25% of the electorate and reproductive rights are the #1 voting motivation for them to turn out to the polls. Even if you don't think you'd get the single women vote, historically the only time this group turns out to vote in large numbers is when they think pro-choice is threatened.

...


Let's make sure we're clear here with a little translation. You're saying the #1 motivator for U.S. single women, as a demographic, to vote is to be able to kill a baby anytime and anywhere they choose?

If that's true it is obvious why this country is in such terrible shape.


to make it worse though, it would appear Republicans are so intent on addressing it as a platform plank, that they are willing to give up a shot at the white house over it.

which is yet another reason the country is in such terrible shape.


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
No offense Tim, but you're a pagan and not among the evangelical people. I am. Evangelicals fear too much federal power in anything. We know that if we give the feds the authority to define marriage our way, we also give them the authority to define it another way. We're not dumb.

Would we like to see everybody embrace family values as we have them? Of course! But we know that using the federal government to force that is a double edged sword.


You are the exception not the rule. Believe me, most politically active evangelicals WANT federal legislation on social issues.

The federal Defense of Marriage Act was NOT a pagan, libertarian, or liberal legislation. The legislation came from the evangelicals.

BTW: Being a Pagan has nothing to do with it. I sat on the Republican County Central Committee and I dealt with the political evangelicals and we had little in common.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Culture matters.

Social issues shape culture.

Culture provides the climate for an economy to function.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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ok, lets say that's true

what good is it to keep cultural beliefs in the forefront of political ambitions if they are a boat anchor keeping you down?

I think its hard to argue that if Mitt Romney was allowed to be pro-choice, he'd be president (never mind whether you think Romney would be a good president, he was the GOP choice).

And what legislation is a pro-life president going to get passed in this country given the percentages of the electorate we've talked about? Yes, there is pro-life legislation taking place at the state level but not against the backdrop of urban centers.

its like the liberals thinking they are going to get gun legislation passed.


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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
What would the Republican party look like if....the Tea Party pulls out...


what it looked like when McCain /Palin got their ass handed to them?



Don't think you can blame the Tea Party for that one. What did the Party look like when Romney/Ryan got their ass handed to them?

Reason I asked, is because I have wondered why Sarah's last best seller was aimed directly at the largest base in the Republican Party.
For sure, Sarah is a Evangelical Christian writing for her choir...so to speak...but I wonder...

I wonder what the GOP Good Old Boys would do if faced with a creditable, as in for sure, threat of losing their Evangelical base? Maybe a threat based on primary voting results?

Would the Tea Party get invited back to the next convention? Would we hear a different tune from the choir?


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SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."












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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
What would the Republican party look like if....the Tea Party pulls out...


what it looked like when McCain /Palin got their ass handed to them?



Don't think you can blame the Tea Party for that one. What did the Party look like when Romney/Ryan got their ass handed to them?


your question was what would it look like without the tea party. The tea party was mostly a Ron Paul collection until after that election.


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