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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by Derby_Dude

The Republicans here in Montana are trying to close the Republican primary to registered Republicans only which I favor. If this comes about I'll have to register as a Republican.


I grew up in NY and it was like that there. I hated it. The party doesn't have to try to pull votes from other parties that way. It gives them too much power and no checks.

Then again, I'm not happy with ballot laws here in Alabama.

If a candidate runs as a democract or republican they need 5000 signatures to be on the ballot. If they run in any other party they need 45,000 signatures.

I think part of our problem is that the two dominant parties are just too powerful. They are out of touch because they can be.


I've never been to Alabama so I leave that alone.

Here in Montana in the last primary election the Republican candidates were decided, for the most part, by the Democrats.

With closed primaries, at least on the Republican side, Republicans would be selected by Republicans not by Democrats. The last thing Democrats want is libertarian Republicans. conservative Republicans, or Tea Party Republicans in the state legislature as freedom might really break out. Heavens to murgatroyd!


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
No offense Tim, but you're a pagan and not among the evangelical people. I am. Evangelicals fear too much federal power in anything. We know that if we give the feds the authority to define marriage our way, we also give them the authority to define it another way. We're not dumb.

Would we like to see everybody embrace family values as we have them? Of course! But we know that using the federal government to force that is a double edged sword.


You are the exception not the rule. Believe me, most politically active evangelicals WANT federal legislation on social issues.

The federal Defense of Marriage Act was NOT a pagan, libertarian, or liberal legislation. The legislation came from the evangelicals.

BTW: Being a Pagan has nothing to do with it. I sat on the Republican County Central Committee and I dealt with the political evangelicals and we had little in common.


Tim, have you read DOMA?

It was a State's Rights bill to do exactly what I said. It was to allow State's to define marriage and prevent the federal government from doing that.

This is exactly what I mean. You are on the outside looking in and wrong.

Evangelicals have always been states rights people.


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by Derby_Dude

The Republicans here in Montana are trying to close the Republican primary to registered Republicans only which I favor. If this comes about I'll have to register as a Republican.


I grew up in NY and it was like that there. I hated it. The party doesn't have to try to pull votes from other parties that way. It gives them too much power and no checks.

Then again, I'm not happy with ballot laws here in Alabama.

If a candidate runs as a democract or republican they need 5000 signatures to be on the ballot. If they run in any other party they need 45,000 signatures.

I think part of our problem is that the two dominant parties are just too powerful. They are out of touch because they can be.


I've never been to Alabama so I leave that alone.

Here in Montana in the last primary election the Republican candidates were decided, for the most part, by the Democrats.

With closed primaries, at least on the Republican side, Republicans would be selected by Republicans not by Democrats. The last thing Democrats want is libertarian Republicans. conservative Republicans, or Tea Party Republicans in the state legislature as freedom might really break out. Heavens to murgatroyd!


Turn around is fair play.


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
No offense Tim, but you're a pagan and not among the evangelical people. I am. Evangelicals fear too much federal power in anything. We know that if we give the feds the authority to define marriage our way, we also give them the authority to define it another way. We're not dumb.

Would we like to see everybody embrace family values as we have them? Of course! But we know that using the federal government to force that is a double edged sword.


You are the exception not the rule. Believe me, most politically active evangelicals WANT federal legislation on social issues.

The federal Defense of Marriage Act was NOT a pagan, libertarian, or liberal legislation. The legislation came from the evangelicals.

BTW: Being a Pagan has nothing to do with it. I sat on the Republican County Central Committee and I dealt with the political evangelicals and we had little in common.


Tim, have you read DOMA?

It was a State's Rights bill to do exactly what I said. It was to allow State's to define marriage and prevent the federal government from doing that.

This is exactly what I mean. You are on the outside looking in and wrong.

Evangelicals have always been states rights people.


Lets assume I am than you evangelicals have got to do a better job of marketing your brand. That's not the marketing message I'm getting.


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Oh I agree!

Kind of like the marketing libertarian's get.


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You're being fed the fear mongering spin.

"Look what they did in their State! They'll do that to the whole Country! They must be stopped!"


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I find it hard to believe that evangelicals are states rights people.

I bet you won't have to go too far on here to find several that claim to be evangelicals and believe at the federal level for laws supporting their views on abortion, marriage, prayer in school, etc

Last edited by KFWA; 10/30/14.

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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by Derby_Dude

The Republicans here in Montana are trying to close the Republican primary to registered Republicans only which I favor. If this comes about I'll have to register as a Republican.


I grew up in NY and it was like that there. I hated it. The party doesn't have to try to pull votes from other parties that way. It gives them too much power and no checks.

Then again, I'm not happy with ballot laws here in Alabama.

If a candidate runs as a democract or republican they need 5000 signatures to be on the ballot. If they run in any other party they need 45,000 signatures.

I think part of our problem is that the two dominant parties are just too powerful. They are out of touch because they can be.


I've never been to Alabama so I leave that alone.

Here in Montana in the last primary election the Republican candidates were decided, for the most part, by the Democrats.

With closed primaries, at least on the Republican side, Republicans would be selected by Republicans not by Democrats. The last thing Democrats want is libertarian Republicans. conservative Republicans, or Tea Party Republicans in the state legislature as freedom might really break out. Heavens to murgatroyd!


Turn around is fair play.


Here in Montana, Republicans or the independents that tend to vote Republican in primaries do not cross over and vote and vote Democrat. The Democrats are fighting the closed Republican primary tooth and nail. The Democrat primary would still be open. By the way, all other parties have closed primaries or nominate for their candidates in convention.

If the closed Republican primary does happen than only the Democrats will have an open primary.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Originally Posted by KFWA
I find it hard to believe that evangelicals are states rights people.

I bet you won't have to go too far on here to find several that claim to be evangelicals and believe at the federal level for laws supporting their views on abortion, marriage, prayer in school, etc


I'm having a hard time believing evangelicals are states rights people too. There is this thing called the national Republican Party Platform.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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Originally Posted by KFWA
I find it hard to believe that evangelicals are states rights people.

I bet you won't have to go too far on here to find several that claim to be evangelicals and believe at the federal level for laws supporting their views on abortion, marriage, prayer in school, etc


I would counter that most people here fall within the evangelical value group and those calling for what you point out are the exception not the norm here just as they are in the larger group. Very vocal nonetheless.

Like poachers being hunters. Poachers get the press.


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by KFWA
I find it hard to believe that evangelicals are states rights people.

I bet you won't have to go too far on here to find several that claim to be evangelicals and believe at the federal level for laws supporting their views on abortion, marriage, prayer in school, etc


I'm having a hard time believing evangelicals are states rights people too. There is this thing called the national Republican Party Platform.


The confederacy had a national platform too.


"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

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I for one wish the states would reclaim the power that they forfeited to the federal government years ago. That would fix a lot of this mess.

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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER
What would the Republican party look like if....the Tea Party pulls out...


what it looked like when McCain /Palin got their ass handed to them?



Don't think you can blame the Tea Party for that one. What did the Party look like when Romney/Ryan got their ass handed to them?


your question was what would it look like without the tea party. The tea party was mostly a Ron Paul collection until after that election.



Which begs the question of what would the GOP do without the Tea Party? And/or the Evangelicals?
A real threat of total destruction by a coalition of Conservatives.

Who would blink first?

It is going to take a real threat of destruction to save the GOP.

To add...shots are being fired already...
Sen. Ted Cruz on Thursday took a thinly veiled shot at Jeb Bush, saying that Republicans will ensure a Hillary Clinton presidency if they run a more moderate candidate in 2016.

Appearing on CNBC, the Texas Republican and tea party favorite was asked about Bush and said that presidential candidates from the party�s establishment wing � like Arizona Sen. John McCain in 2008 and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney in 2012 � consistently fail to turn out millions of voters.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/ted-cruz-jeb-bush-hillary-clinton-112349.html#ixzz3HdzV01Xh

Last edited by BOWSINGER; 10/30/14.

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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by KFWA
I find it hard to believe that evangelicals are states rights people.

I bet you won't have to go too far on here to find several that claim to be evangelicals and believe at the federal level for laws supporting their views on abortion, marriage, prayer in school, etc


I would counter that most people here fall within the evangelical value group and those calling for what you point out are the exception not the norm here just as they are in the larger group. Very vocal nonetheless.

Like poachers being hunters. Poachers get the press.


its been a good discussion - I appreciate your comments


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Originally Posted by derby_dude
[quote=HugAJackass][quote=derby_dude][quote=HugAJackass]
Here in Montana, Republicans or the independents that tend to vote Republican in primaries do not cross over and vote and vote Democrat. The Democrats are fighting the closed Republican primary tooth and nail. The Democrat primary would still be open. By the way, all other parties have closed primaries or nominate for their candidates in convention.

If the closed Republican primary does happen than only the Democrats will have an open primary.


I really appreciate you sharing how things work there because Montana is at the top of the list of places that I'm considering relocating to.

Are the other parties closed due to State law?


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by derby_dude
Originally Posted by KFWA
I find it hard to believe that evangelicals are states rights people.

I bet you won't have to go too far on here to find several that claim to be evangelicals and believe at the federal level for laws supporting their views on abortion, marriage, prayer in school, etc


I'm having a hard time believing evangelicals are states rights people too. There is this thing called the national Republican Party Platform.


The confederacy had a national platform too.


I don't know about a national platform but they had a constitution. But what's that got to do with anything?

The national Republican Party platform is evangelical driven, not Pagan or libertarian driven.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by KFWA
I find it hard to believe that evangelicals are states rights people.

I bet you won't have to go too far on here to find several that claim to be evangelicals and believe at the federal level for laws supporting their views on abortion, marriage, prayer in school, etc


I would counter that most people here fall within the evangelical value group and those calling for what you point out are the exception not the norm here just as they are in the larger group. Very vocal nonetheless.

Like poachers being hunters. Poachers get the press.


its been a good discussion - I appreciate your comments


You and I have come down on the opposite side of many a debate but you've never once made it personal. I've always respected that about you.


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Originally Posted by BOWSINGER

Which begs the question of what would the GOP do without the Tea Party? And/or the Evangelicals?
A real threat of total destruction by a coalition of Conservatives.

Who would blink first?

It is going to take a real threat of destruction to save the GOP.


honestly I don't think there are too many degrees of separation from the version of the tea party now and the evangelicals.

My idea of the tea party is it is comprised of people that are mad at the Republican party for not being "republican" enough which in their mind is more evangelical, more hawkish, more small government (and to be honest , their idea of small government is just doing away with what they don't like and building up what they do like)

There won't be a "tea party" candidate that doesn't align with the evangelicals


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Originally Posted by HugAJackass
Originally Posted by derby_dude
[quote=HugAJackass][quote=derby_dude][quote=HugAJackass]
Here in Montana, Republicans or the independents that tend to vote Republican in primaries do not cross over and vote and vote Democrat. The Democrats are fighting the closed Republican primary tooth and nail. The Democrat primary would still be open. By the way, all other parties have closed primaries or nominate for their candidates in convention.

If the closed Republican primary does happen than only the Democrats will have an open primary.


I really appreciate you sharing how things work there because Montana is at the top of the list of places that I'm considering relocating to.

Are the other parties closed due to State law?


Nope. The other parties are closed by choice. The Democrats and Republicans in the pass had legislation passed to open the primaries so a law is needed to close those parties primaries.

Of course, way back in the day there were no other parties but the Democrats and Republicans. At one time big business ran both the Democrats and the Republicans so opening the primaries probably seemed like a good idea. Now not so much.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

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Originally Posted by KFWA
Originally Posted by BOWSINGER

Which begs the question of what would the GOP do without the Tea Party? And/or the Evangelicals?
A real threat of total destruction by a coalition of Conservatives.

Who would blink first?

It is going to take a real threat of destruction to save the GOP.


honestly I don't think there are too many degrees of separation from the version of the tea party now and the evangelicals.

My idea of the tea party is it is comprised of people that are mad at the Republican party for not being "republican" enough which in their mind is more evangelical, more hawkish, more small government (and to be honest , their idea of small government is just doing away with what they don't like and building up what they do like)

There won't be a "tea party" candidate that doesn't align with the evangelicals


I think you have it nailed down shut.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


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