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Joined: Nov 2004
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OP
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This was prompted by my gun falling off the shooting sticks and my nighforce taking a hit on the windage turret. not too hard just enough to make me want to recheck zero on the scope. I have to admit I HATE having a big honking windage turret on my scope. I worry that its been bumped or turned without me knowing it. I see no need to EVER dial that thing to make a shot. its just in the way and prone to complicate things. So I call nightforce and ask if they can replace it with a capped low profile turret. of course they say NO even though they make the G7 scope with exactly what I am wanting.
so my question is does anyone and under what situations do you find having a big exposed windage turret advantageous
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 5,792
Campfire Tracker
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The only times I've dialed for windage have been with scopes that don't have marks on the horizontal wire to allow me to accurately reference hold off. I've had reasonably good results dialing windage but much prefer hold off if the reticle is suitable. I think the Bushnell LRHS with it's capped windage knob and suitable reticle is ideal in that regard, and it is still suitable for dialing should you decide you want to go that route.
John
If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,691
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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On the other hand, I have gotten along pretty darn good holding over for these previous 77 years. I had been thinking about a M1, but this thread kind of says to me, "Why?"
thanks,
jack
"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 37,015 |
Seems to me dialing an elevation turret so the reticle can be solidly on target is more precise than holding over. The more hold over, the harder it is to be precise. And, as the range increases, the holdover increases, the target gets smaller, necessitating even more precise aiming...
Windage is another matter. Scopes with windage reticles and elevation turrets make sense to me.
But, I'm a Southern hunter, not a LR target shooter and I don't take ultra long range shots at game animals. And, I don't do that much hunting in windy country. Therefore, I don't get a lot of practice reading the wind. I do respect those who can.
DF
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 5,219
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I'm a turret twisting fool when it comes to shooting prairie dogs. Seems it is always windy here and once dialed in I bring terror to the town. I have greater success with dialing and holding on then attempting a hold off. Now if I could only get the wind to hold steady.
I used a Stoney Point cap on a Lupie and it worked on a 535 yd shot but I didn't care for the added height and removed it.
The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,049
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
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Back in ancient times, before laser rangefinders, I figured out how to use the plex reticle in my scope as a rangefinder, partly because I guided pronghorn hunters for a few years and had to provide a good idea of the range, and sometimes needed to finish off bucks they wounded, often at long range.
Of course, what was considered long range back then wouldn't be now, but did take one wounded buck down at around 550 yards, because I knew the reticle and the rifle very well. By the way, my "guide gun" was a .257 Roberts loaded with 100-grain bullets at 3200+ fps. I was severely outgunned by most of my clients, including every one whose wounded goat I had to polish off. But thanks to shooting a lot of rockchucks with the same rifle, I knew the trajectory well, and never had any problem holding for windage with the plex reticle, because I also knew the size of a pronghorn's chest.
Still have never had any difficulty holding for windage on big game, for the same reason, but do sometimes dial windage when shooting smaller varmints, especially prairie dogs, though frequently use the reticle's hashmarks instead.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Nov 2010
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2010
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And way back before all this newfangled gadgetry, old time buffalo hunters had LR tang sights on their big Sharps and made shots like Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls...  I guess if ole Billy had a Leupold 6X with M1, he'd a been really dangerous...  DF
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And way back before all this newfangled gadgetry, old time buffalo hunters had LR tang sights on their big Sharps and made shots like Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls... DF That they dialed.... grin 99% of the time I and everyone I shoot with holds for wind. The only time that I don't is either ELR when I've run out of windage in the reticle or I'm dialing some back in to pull me towards the center of the reticle, or if I am shooting a stage at one range but from really unstable positions. The middle is the middle and the more stressed that you are the more that you want to be there. Checking your turret periodically is apart of carrying a rifle- it's apart of the shot process. Unless it's a very short range jump shot I always glance at both turrets while setting up the shot. Takes about 0.02 seconds to glance, even though I can't say with any scope featuring turrets designed worth a flip that I've ever had them move. It used to baffle me how people think that this stuff is so hard, or turning a turret is slow, or other such nonsense and then as I went I realized that almost NO ONE knows what shot sequence is or setting up for a shot automatically every time is. It's why you see dudes taking FOREVER to shoot an animal that's standing right in front in them. As for why there's not more scopes with exposed elevation turrets and capped windage turrets, the main reason is that hunters have no idea what they want or need. Most live in such a myopic environment that they believe that because what they are doing has "worked" that it's the best way. Really it may just be that what they are doing hasn't failed so spectacularly that they are forced to find a better way, and there is a HUGE difference between the two. Most of the time we are victims of not knowing what we don't know. Another reason, and this is purely a guess, is that having different turrets makes for a bit more work in the manufacturing process and unless the companies get hammered for it, they're not going to spend more for features that aren't being asked for.
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Joined: Nov 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
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And way back before all this newfangled gadgetry, old time buffalo hunters had LR tang sights on their big Sharps and made shots like Billy Dixon at Adobe Walls... DF That they dialed.... grin 99% of the time I and everyone I shoot with holds for wind. The only time that I don't is either ELR when I've run out of windage in the reticle or I'm dialing some back in to pull me towards the center of the reticle, or if I am shooting a stage at one range but from really unstable positions. The middle is the middle and the more stressed that you are the more that you want to be there. Checking your turret periodically is apart of carrying a rifle- it's apart of the shot process. Unless it's a very short range jump shot I always glance at both turrets while setting up the shot. Takes about 0.02 seconds to glance, even though I can't say with any scope featuring turrets designed worth a flip that I've ever had them move. It used to baffle me how people think that this stuff is so hard, or turning a turret is slow, or other such nonsense and then as I went I realized that almost NO ONE knows what shot sequence is or setting up for a shot automatically every time is. It's why you see dudes taking FOREVER to shoot an animal that's standing right in front in them. As for why there's not more scopes with exposed elevation turrets and capped windage turrets, the main reason is that hunters have no idea what they want or need. Most live in such a myopic environment that they believe that because what they are doing has "worked" that it's the best way. Really it may just be that what they are doing hasn't failed so spectacularly that they are forced to find a better way, and there is a HUGE difference between the two. Most of the time we are victims of not knowing what we don't know. Another reason, and this is purely a guess, is that having different turrets makes for a bit more work in the manufacturing process and unless the companies get hammered for it, they're not going to spend more for features that aren't being asked for. form you have this unique way of disagreeing but at the same time agreeing with pretty much everything most people are saying. only a couple times have I seen my NF turret move, once was when for some reason the jamb nut was loose for some reason. you are right this should be checked but frankly I would rather not worry about it. besides it could be designed in such a way that if you are wanting to dial for windage you can just unscrew the cap. the nice thing about a covered windage turret is the thing could make the scope more compact. I don't even see why the tactical community would also see value in a covered windage turret
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 15,565
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2005
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Another reason I like Leupolds. I can my turrets ANY way I want. And have pretty much tried them all.......
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 228
Campfire Member
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Been doing a lot of thinking myself on this recently as I head for my antelope hunt. My Swaro Z5 has a 4W reticle with a ballistic turret. Thought it would be best to dial elevation and holdover for windage but if I were to do it again I would set my self up to dial both.
For starters, dialing just seems precise. I have come to prefer a simple reticle. Checking the turret is becoming part of my pre-shot repertoire having shot a couple times at the range at 300 y with the turret set at 200. Adding a check to the windage turret seems a natural extension an more natural than holding over to me.
Suspect after this hunt I might put up this Swaro for sale and get something I can dial both on without turret caps. Maybe the Zeiss HD target turrets. Was thinking of NF but I hear they have less eye relief and I tend to need more eye relief.
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Campfire Tracker
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Wind is too fickle and changes too fast to dial it in the field. Dial elevation, hold wind.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 20,683 |
I only use elevation turrets
for a guy of my limited abilities that's probably enough mechanical monkeying (grin)
but then I don't live in a place where praire dog hunting is available
on a dedicated varmint rig I could see where I "might" want a windage turret
but for the hunting I do, and the ranges I shoot at, elevation turret is plenty and sans the windage turret, is one less thing for me to be concerned with
I'm pretty certain when we sing our anthem and mention the land of the free, the original intent didn't mean cell phones, food stamps and birth control.
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Campfire Tracker
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I have several hunting rifles and several varmint rifles that have both windage and elevation turrets or elevation only turrets and love them both, I much prefer the target style that have a cap over the M1 style.
To me it depends on the range that I will be shooting and how much wind. on a recent deer hunt in Wyoming where the wind always blows or sucks (depending if you are in western or eastern Wyoming). the wind was not consistent but was always above 10mph, the shot was 650 yards so I dialed in exact for elevation and dialed in for a 10mph crosswind....then held off just a bit more.
If the wind is blowing like it was when I went by your town yesterday (30-40mph)I put my gun away and wait for another day!!!
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