Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Why am I crushing Savage 300 case shoulders?

I understand the shoulder on the 300 Savage case can be a "weak" point during reloading due to it's sharp angle but haven't read yet as to how to correct it. My older set of RCBS dies were picked up on Ebay but with w/o instructions. Figured no biggie, just adjust the seating die until the shell holder meets the bottom of the die, then adjust the seating stem until the correct OAL is met. Obviously something isn't right though. What am I doing wrong?

I was doing the same thing with 338RCM brass on RCBS dies as well. Scratched my head raw over it.

Finally, my dad, more experienced than I, pointed out that new brass isn't always nice and smooth.

Try chamfering the inside and outside edges of the mouth real good and see if that solves it for you.

I thought I was going to be reading about cases being dimpled on the shoulder. That's easy, too much lube.

Check you die, maybe needs cleaning?

Yup, I second chamfering the case mouth, inside and out. And a judicious cleaning of your dies, then lube up your case necks, inside and out.

Are you using actual .300 Savage dies?

Are you lubing the inside case neck?

Is the correct expander ball ball on the decapping rod.

I don't think it a brass issue. I think it's a "too much force/resistance issue.

Just guessing here because I haven't watched your process, but there's something there that needs to be solved.

Easy. Back off on your seating die......screw the seating stem in further.

Seating dies usually aren't meant to be contacting the shell holder.

My 284 die does that to me sometimes. Very sensitive. I just back off on the depth a little bit and it fixes it.

Could be that's why they were sold on ebay. RCBS has outstanding customer service, give them a call. Just remember that there's a three hour time difference out here.

Correct. Some seating dies are set up to crimp the brass into a cannelure on the bullet, so if too deep they will crush the cases.

I'll 'third' this recommendation - BTDT.

It appears to me that you are crushing the shoulder down so that rather than having a 30� shoulder, you're causing the cartridge's shoulder to almost disappear.

Back off your resizing die a �, a � or possibly a full turn... leaving a very short area of the very bottom of the case's neck UN-resized. As long as you're firing the cartridges in the SAME RIFLE you originally fired them in, they should chamber, fire and eject just fine. By doing so, you're only resizing the case's "neck" enough to securely "hold" the bullet.

In addition, if one only "neck-sizes", the cartridges will produce somewhat greater accuracy since the cartridge case's wall will already be expanded against your rifle's chamber-walls prior to firing the cartridge. (That's an old "bench-rest shooter's trick". )

By backing off your resizing die as mentioned above, you are "neck-sizing" the cartridge case which means you are not resizing the cartridge's body, you're only resizing the cartridge's neck. Generally, doing so will increase your cartridge's "life" thus yielding considerably more reloadings of your cartridge cases.

When resizing a case (any caliber), I set up the die so that it ALMOST re-sizes the full length of the neck. I.E., , I'm "neck-sizing" the case which works just fine as long as the case was originally fired in the same rifle for which you're currently re-loading, I always leave a very slight part of the bottom of the neck not resized.

By doing that, there's no chance that I'll "set-back" or crush down the cartridge's shoulder which is what it appears you're doing by looking at the picture of the two cases in your initial post.

I hope this helps... Please let us know how it comes out.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I'll 4th this one. The case mouth is into the crimping part of the die. When you continue to push the brass into the die it pushes the neck down into the shoulder area.

All good advice. I would add that checking the overall length of the sized case might be a good idea too- if the neck is too long it could impinge upon the end of the chamber in the seating die and scrunch the whole works back on itself, especially if the die was cut to minimal dimensions. I had that happen once when I was making .300's out of .308's and carelessly left the necks too long.

Correct. If you are not trimming your cases to a uniform length crimping can be a problem.

A real eye opener on this whole topic is the reloading of M-1 carbine cartridges, which headspace on the case mouth.

Plus, who around here even bothers to crimp ammo intended for use in a 99?

Good point! I never have. Another reason to love the rotary mag!!

When I first started reloading, I thought you had to crimp the bullet. I started with RCBS dies and they are the worst to use for that. That may well be the problem. If you think you have to crimp, try Lee Dies with the collet in them.

that looks pretty extreme. mic your expander ball. looks like the neck maybe to tight ??

plab

Yeah, if you must crimp, do it seperately with a Lee die. If you absolutely must with an RCBS seater die, make doubly dam sure the cases are perfectly the same length and adjust the crimping stage with extremely fine adjustments 'til you get it right. YMMV.

Is this happening during the sizing/decapping operation, or in the bullet seating operation? I read your post twice, and although I may have overlooked it, I didn't find where you said either way.

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I'm with Gnoahhh on this "crimping" business... and I always trim my cases to the recommended length... that's a "must" in my book. I've also found that if you hand-load .300 Savage cartridges up to close to "maximum" loads, the case's neck tends to stretch quite a bit after just one firing.

I've never crimped any of my center-fire rifle cartridges... not even in my pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester in .338 Winchester Magnum which I used for elk and moose. My hunting hand-loads in the .338 (75.0 grains of IMR4350 behind a 210 grain Nosler Partition Bullet @ 3,015 fps chronographed) had "considerable" recoil... trust me.

With the majority of center-fire rifle cartridges, merely re-sizing the cartridge's neck back down to it's original size is "enough" to hold the bullet in place.

In fact, the .338's heavy recoil was the primary reason I started using the Model 99 in .300 Savage for hunting. There's a "world-of-difference" between the recoil of my "hot" hand-loads in the .338 of 34 ft/lbs and 14 ft/lbs of recoil in the .300 Savage.

The .338 was just beatin' me to death... especially if I had to remove the scope for some reason (like seared-off scope screws) and had to sight the rifle/scope combo back "in" (usually using at least 9 to 12 shots off the bench-rest) when I put the scope back on the big Winchester.

That .338 "got-to-me" and wasn't any "fun" to shoot very much. Even as a younger man of 28 years old, the .338 "hurt me" after 17 rounds off the "bench", whereas I can shoot the Model 99 in .300 Savage all day long and it didn't/doesn't really "bother" me.

Jus' my 2�...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Greg. its looks like there is a bullet in the crush case.
that,s why I'm thinking expander ball or like hugajackass said
chamfering

???
plab

From RCBS home page. miles

Step 19 - Bullet Seating (Part 1)
Step 19 Image

Thread the seater die a few turns into the press. Put a case in the shell holder and lower the press handle, running the ram with the case to the top of the press stroke. Turn the die body down until it stops. The crimp shoulder in the die is now pressing against the top of the case mouth. Back the die out one turn, raising the crimp shoulder above the case mouth. Secure the die in position with the die lock ring.

Wow...thanks for the responses to all!

Our internet connection has been on the fritz the past few days so I finally made to the library to check back in here. Been a while since I've been to a "studious" place like this

Anyway, first to clarify the shoulder crushing was occurring during the bullet seating operation, not the decap/resize operation. In my original pic, the case on the left was after running through the decap/resize die, the one on the right through the bullet seating die.

I applied most everyone's recommendations:

1) The dies are indeed 300 Savage
2) I cleaned the bullet seating die thoroughly including the seating stem
3) The seating stem/neck resizer is a straight cylinder rather than a ball. Diameter measures 0.305"
4) All cases were trimmed to a hair under max per Lymans 49th (I don't recall what this measurement is...at library remember? ) This was done previously anyway
5) All cases were deburred/chamferred. This was done previously too
6) I removed the die and shell holder and inserted a case to measure the gap between the bottom of the die and shell holder (no force applied) Gap measured 0.040". Reset the die in the press with this same gap and kept readjusting the seating stem until max OAL was achieved.

So while each of the above steps was advantageous, I believe item #6 was where the primary problem was. No more crushed cases!

I'd post a pic of the final result but remember...I'm at the library

Thanks again to all!

You had the seating die screwed too far in the press. Unless you are crimping, not necessary for 300 Savage, the dies should be backed off until it doesn't touch the mouth of the case. Seating depth should be adjusted by turning the threaded screw on top of the die.

... What Gregintenn said and/OR...

The base of the bullet is NOT fitting into the mouth of the case thus, as you lower the ram on your reloading press, the bottom of the bullet is refusing to "start" in... and fit into the case's open mouth and thus the bottom of the bullet is crushing the whole cartridge's neck "down" yielding the "problem" you're having and why the second case looks as it does.

However, if this is the reason, then I'd expect that part of the edge of the case-mouth would very likely be bend over... either inwardly or outwardly where the bullet's base touched the case's mouth and refused to slide into it.

While I believe it's been previously mentioned, it also could be that you've got either the resizing die or the bullet-seating die screwed down much too far and the die is crushing down the case's neck and driving it down into the case's powder chamber. I say this because it appears in the 2nd. picture of the case, your case's shoulder has practically disappeared.

To determine this... simply LOOK at the case's neck and shoulder after resizing it and before attempting to seat the bullet in the case. I.E., does the shoulder look like the 2nd. picture BEFORE or AFTER you attempt to seat the bullet.

I.E., the case's "shoulder" has practically disappeared because the whole case-neck has apparently been driven down because either the die is set too low or the base of the bullet you're attempting to put into the case's open "mouth" refuses to slide into the open case-mouth.

This could be caused by your resizing die's expander-button NOT opening up the case-mouth far enough... or I suppose it is possible that your expander button doesn't have a large enough outside diameter. However, RCBS makes excellent and very "precision" dies, so I question that it's the expander-button's fault.

At least, these are my "guesses" from the new information you just posted.

Jus' my 2�... 'cause I've run out of ideas.


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

Thanks Greg and Ron.

Relative to the bullet not fitting in the case mouth, I'm currently using 150gr Nosler Ballistic tips with the boatail base so getting the bullet started is not an issue. However, I'll certainly have to keep a close eye on fittment when loading up the Nosler Partitions on hand.

Even though I set the gap as detailed in my previous post at 0.040", it's since been reset again with everything in the press. In other words, raised the ram until just feeling the case shoulder and then tightened everything down. Haven't measured the new gap but it must be very close to 0.040"

I loaded up 10 cases with 38.0 grains of IMR4064 and 10 with 39.0 grains. Will see what shoots better this weekend. Cutting it close to the opener but am looking forward to toting the 99 again!

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