Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Lab-springer cross

My current lab can no longer hunt as he developed retinal degeneration and is now blind at age 7.

I have had several labs and one springer and think perhaps the best dog would be a cross. Less genetic problems due to a larger gene pool, better size (for my needs) less coat maintenance than a springer, less shedding than a lab.

I would appreciate any first hand experience that anyone can relate. Thanks

That sounds like a great idea, if you try that I would be very interested in seeing the results. Never had a Lab but have had Springers.

Intentionally creating a mix breed? What are you gonna do with the pup's, free to a good home? Humane Society is full of mixed breed dog's.

I was biting my tongue.
Was hoping someone else was gonna bring this to light..^^^^

It is unfortunate that dog people somehow believe that a little cross breeding is detrimental. Dogs suffer a high incidence of recessive genetic conditions because of this narrow minded breeding.

Breeding hunting dogs with similar traits ie. flushers to flushers pointing breeds to pointing breeds would only help expand the gene pool and lessen those genetic problems.

This is the same reason marrying your sister or first cousin is likely to produce children that are less well off.

If you look at a lot of old hunting photos you see a lot of mixed breed dogs and a wagon load of birds, as it was (and is) more important to breed two dogs that can hunt well than two dogs of the same breed.

Had a Springador...nice but had a bad habit of trying to bite children...Springer rage?

Yeah, why do it? You have generations upon generations with standard breeds to get the traits just right. Cross 'em and you don't know what you'll get, more generations of careful selective breeding to get traits standardized.

A neighbor got talked into two lab-GSH crosses from the same litter - "We're gonna make super dogs." One was very lab-ish and the other more like a GSH. Both nice but very different dogs. One hunts like a lab and the other sorta like a GSH. Nothing super about it.

I have hunted over a number of dogs that were the result of accidental crosses. Some were better than others but most were worthwhile hunting dogs if the owner spent the time...

The thinking that crossing lessens the probability of genetic defects does not bear out, in my experience. But I dunno why...

a neighbor had a very good hunting rott-lab cross that crippled up early and then developed intestinal issues. I owned the lab sire of the litter that he came from. The litter resulted from a neighbor hood party. Old Peet partied harder than I did that night, but he was 8 y.o. and very healthy at the time. Lived to be 12...

I have hunted over crosses of

Shorthair-Pit Bull
Lab-Shorthair
Chessie-Shorthair
Lab-Brittany
Lab-Rottweiler

Of these, the Shorthair-pit cross is still hunting. 5 y.o. IIRC, and a pretty good dog in most respects.

Not saying wouldn't work. However, both breeds have enough genetic diversity that inbreeding is not a problem. I'm not and advocate of line breeding either as often occurs in the bird dog circles.

How do you know you are going to get the size you want with the coat type you want? Like many here you request opinions, but have obviously made up your mind re: the direction your want to go with your comments of less genetic problems, larger gene pool, etc. You don't want differing opinions, you want people to agree with you. Have it it, if that is want you want, but don't BS the players.

Again, how do you know what kind of pups you are going to end up with? More Lab, more Springer, half and half. You don't, you are hoping.

tcp,

Breeding (genetics) is a very complex science, well beyond my knowledge so I leave breeding to breeders. Part of it is crossing lines so recessive genes stay recessive. Good breeders put a lot of effort into that, they don't want physically inferior dogs. Ferinstance hip displasia is a problem in Brittanys. A good breeder will check back several generations for certified sound dogs - x-rays, vet exams, evaluated and graded by an expert. Of course there are a lot of not so good breeders.

You don't know what the pups will be like on a cross. A family friend bred his female cocker with a neighbor's poodle when cockerpoos were the rage. The pups all looked like they were from different litters and their traits varied as much. We got Dandy who was closer to a poodle but with calmer temperament, the ideal cockerpoo. Smartest dog I ever knew. His sister Candy looked like an odd cocker and had the same traits including the piddle problem. I don't know if they ever got cockerpoos to breed true.

So it's like a box of chocolates, you may get one like you want but don't be surprised if you don't. Not that looks necessarily reflect hunting ability, just you can't be sure of the result.

I have owned and hunted over several mixed breed dogs. Some were great and others not so great. If you decide to a do the breeding ,you will just need to make sure that you have homes for all of the pups. The point made that the appearance of the pups will not be consistant is very valid.

If both parents are good bird dogs I think you have a very good chance of getting some good pups that would make good bird hunters.

No doubt, but he is looking for a certain size with certain specific hair characteristics.

Different set of expectations than just having a good hunter.

TCP I had a Lab-Springer cross!!! We named him Curly and docked his tail,,what a great dog!!

He was a hunting machine on land or in the water, we live on a lake and he would swim for miles when the salmon were in or just harrassing the sticklebacks.

He weighed about 45-50 lbs and was built like a beefier springer.

I'd do it again if we weren't so wrapped up in Karelian Bear dogs now.

Jim

I've seen more than a few of these "accidental breedings" in the field. You really have no idea what you are going to get from one, as noted above. The world already has waaaay too many mutts which will just end up in the pound, eventually.

Just say NOOOOOOOOO............

NB

You are right. Any breeding creates a random assortment of genes in the offspring and there is no way to predict which get what. I bred my 80lb male to my friend's 55lb female and the pup I kept turned out to be taller and heavier the father by quite a bit. My son is 6'6", I am 5'10" ( no kidding)

No where in my post did I suggest that I was going to do any breeding. I asked for input from those that had expirience with lab/springer crosses. I am not BSing anyone.

As I have been happy with both labs and springers breeding them to combine their traits makes sense to me.

I actually have had a great deal of training in genetics. You never know precisely what you are going to get. Do you believe all the pups from the same litter have the same potential? Likely not. Better parents equal better offspring, generally and one great parent can't make up the difference for a dud on the other side of the pairing.

There are more than enough MUTTS in the world as it is
Breeding a dog with known genetic defects makes even less sense.

But backyard breeders do what they want, not what is best

I had a rescue dog lab/newfi that was a great waterfowler. He lived to be 12 and was a super family dog.

So he still hasn't said what he's gonna do with all the left over pup's! What he's planning is extremely foolish and irresponsible. You guy's that have had mix breed's you liked, good for you. What happened to the rest of the pup's in the litter? A guy here in Ore several years ago go caught releasing pup's on the grasslands and leaving them. Go to the local pound or H.S. shelter and count the unwanted dogs. Most of them get put to sleep!