Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 338/06, 8mm Mauser or 35 whelen? which is easiest to find

338/06, 8mm Mauser or 35 whelen? which is easiest to find in africa? any standouts? thanks

In a commercial gun there are probably more 35 Whelens out there. The 338-06 is pretty much limited to the Weatherby rifles that are used and expensive. The 8x57 was made in the Remington Classic one year and is a fine rifle. If you go military you can get any of the 3. You could buy any of the good 98's still around and leave it 8x57 or run a 338-06-35 Whelen reamer in it and be done. powdr

I am assuming you mean ammunition since it is unlikely you will be buying a firearm in Africa. Of those 3 choices only 8x57js is likely to be available in factory ammo in Africa. The other two are more or less wildcat rounds that can be difficult to obtain as loaded ammo even here in the states.

9.3x63, 375 H&H, 30-06 is a better way for ammo, as is the .275 Rigby and Swede.

When I was in Namibia in 2010, I saw the following...
7x57
8x57
9.3x62
.375H&H and Ruger
.270
.30-06
6.5x55
.458Win
.416Rem
9.3x64
7x64
22-250
.243
.308
7mmRem Mag
.300Win
.300H&H

8x57 hands down. But why are you asking?

looking to do a one rifle does it all for all N. America and Africa should I ever get there.

375 H&H

30-06

Unless you want to go for the big stuff, in which case the recommendation above ^^ of 375 H&H applies.

I would think it sort of depends on what game you intend to hunt in Africa (PG vs DG) and what country. As mentioned above, you really can't go wrong with a .375 H&H. It is the legal minimum caliber in several African countries for DG (including SA I believe), and it will certainly be effective on any PG you encounter. For North America you can always work-up some light loads. Hell, I talked to guy yesterday that uses his .416 Rigby for white tails and pigs (using light loads).

My son has used 250g A-Frames at 2800 fps in our 375 to great effect on elk and feral pigs. It shoots about as flat as a 30-06 shooting 180g A-Frames and hits a lot harder.

There has to be more to this story than the brief accounting here.

Are you looking for something with a "bigger" bullet for worldwide hunting, but with a little "lighter" recoil? If so, you want a 9.3x62.

If you want a truly useful worldwide-kill-everything rifle, then a 375 H&H.

If you want to hunt everything everywhere except the actual BIG critters, then you want a 30-06.

The three that you mentioned originally all seem very odd to be worried about available ammo/rifles. If you're set on one of them, then the 8x57 is the only one to consider for availability.

I know a lot of people won't agree with me, but MOST people, meaning mostly men, cannot handle the recoil of a 375. I've had one for 45 years. It is NOT pleasant to shoot. If not going to hunt Elephant, or something requring a 375, don't get one. As noted by another here, the 06 has and will kill anything out there, including the DG, though not legal, and takes more shooting ability. Col. Askins noted in an article of his I recently read, that one of the reasons for going to the M14 and 308, was the bitching of the troops about the recoil of the 06. I belive it was Col Whelen, or Gen Hatcher who said the 06 about a much of a round as the average person can tolerate, recoil wise. The 375 will kill the smaller stuff, true, but not as well as an 06 correctly loaded, or a 308, or a 280. The bullets for a 375, being oriented towards heavier stuff, just will not expand as quickly, as the right weight on in the 06, etc. If you were going to Africa and wanted to hunt a cape buff, then borrow, rent a rifle from the PH, or hunting company, or if you have one take your 458, or 416. Last year, using a 308, my god grandson, took 4 of 5 animals (including a Zebra) with a 308, and the 130gr TTSX bullet. One was hit in line, but a bit low, and took another shot, which went from the right hip, to the left shoulder. The 375 would not have done better and a 13 year old kid, would not have been able to handle the 375.

To get to the original question. I wouldn't necessarily want any of the 3, the 06 being world wide, more powerful than the 8mm, and the 35 whelen and 338-06 (I have one of those too, and have used it in Africa) there is most likely NOT going to be any ammo for them, that is the whelen and 338/06, to be found. The 06 can be found everywhere pretty much. And, if loaded with the correct bullet, can't be beat.

A) You are right I certainly do not agree with all of your statement. I would totally agree if MOST people were couch potatos or mall walkers. A properly setup 375 H&H can be very easy to shoot. It just takes a little thought & a knowledgeable gunsmith.
B)If you don't like the way a stock 375H&H handles/shoots put on a good recoil pad on, cut the stock to fit, add a mercury recoil reducer, and cut the barrel back to 22" and install a break. This all turns the 375H&H into a recoil puzzy!
C)True No Arguements here.
D)Out of context...Askins was refering to rifle range and battle. Where a lot of ammo is shot up. You will not be doing that kind of shooting, hunting or practicing.
E)Seriuosly mistaken.
F)Agree if you are not a reloader and buy nothing but 300grain factory loads. But pure punk if you are reloader. Apparently you have just owned your 375H&H and not used it much for 45 years.
G)Agree this is always an option.
H)? I don't think the OP is a 13 year old kid. But I may be wrong.
I)Agreed but the 375H&H would be better than the 06.
J)Agree that 06 ammo is everywhere but not that it can't be beat! The 375H&H will and does beat it in every way. I'll also say you can most often find ammo for it in most states, provinces, & countries also.

Since you (tisha) are a reader; Bob Hagel, a big-game guide and firearms writer, once wrote that in hunting you "should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."

In ideal conditions, any animal can be killed with almost any rifle cartridge. There is no beast on earth, including dangerous ones, that cannot be dispatched with a well-placed bullet from a 375H&H Magnum. Animals as formidable as elephants and cape buffalo have, on occasion, been killed with smaller rifle cartridges firing light bullets like the 06. But certainly is not recommended.

IF the 375H&H is such a bad choice why is it throughout its history so much has been written by so many hunters/writers that it is THE ALL AROUND HUNTING CARTRIDGE?

Cheers to the OP on finding your do all hunting cartridge.

I'm building a 9.3x62 just for that purpose... Although it could turn into a 375 Ruger.

But with the availability of ammo, probably the 9.3x62

Good post WBill.
The internet is full of misinformation and folks who are not afraid to post it.
For the record my 375 weighs 9lbs scope and all and it is not painful to shoot 20 rounds at a time off the bench. Reason? It has a custom stock fitted to me and a good recoil pad. It has also been used on everything from warthog and coyotes to cape buffalo.
To the OP again, the 8x57 and the rounds you would find in Africa would not be the milquetoast loads offered by American companies. IMHO most people make entirely too much fuss about the possibility of losing your ammo. Yes it happens but not as often as some seem to think.

I have a pre-64 model 70 in 375, that I've had restocked, because the pre-64 stocks added to the recoil. I shoot a 340wby and it doesn't have the recoil of the 375. I have used the 375 on a number of animals over the last 42 years, and it does NOT kill stuff like Impala, or the normal plains game, as well as the 06, 280, etc. This size animal, hit with the 06, etc., goes down NOW. I have used the 338/06 on some stuff like Oryx and did not find it to be as good a killer, as the 280,with the same placement. There are, admitteldy, better bullets today, but the still are not going to open up as well or quick as the ones from the 06. Askins was not only talking about war shooting, nor was Gen Hatcher. And an M1 doesn't really have much recoil. I do a lot of hunter sight in, etc., and have seen people flinching badly using 300WMs and such, which have no where near the recoil of the 375. I may have mentioned, that there are about 280 different animals, mostly plains game, in Africa, about 260 of them no bigger than a white tail, MOST Of them are smaller. There is no need for something the size of a 375 to use on them. If someone wants to go to Africa, or Alaska, or anywhere in the lower 48, there is nothing that really requires a 375. It might have a bit UP on a Moose, or big Elk, but no need for one for deer, antelope, Impala, or Nyala. Why saddle someone with a rifle, caliber, they can't really handle? You mentioned couch potatoes, but I'm telling you , that most people out there, can't tolerate a 375. Going to all the trouble you list, isn't worth it for a sometimes, hunting rifle. Problem too often is, that too many people use too much gun and it doesn't work well. I've told people who were having trouble killing deer with their 06, to go down in bullet weight (I don't use anything over a 165gr) as the 180s not really made for deer, and don't espand quickly enough to kill well. Sure, they DO kill, but the 150 kills better. I shot a Caribou a few years back, under a 100 yds, using a 225gr accubond bullet. Hit him in the leg, about 4" below the ball joint, and came out the other side, about 1/2 way back in the ribs. He turned and started off and got about 50 feet, which made it a fine kill. But the 280 with the 140gr bullet, same make, they hit the ground like struck by lightening. There's just too much BS attached to the 375. It's more gun than's needed, and will NOT kill plains game size stuff as well as the 06 and that group. I took some 06 ammo loaded with the 150gr TTSX bullet, for my PH, he said it was the best killing ammo he'd ever used. If someone wants to use the 375, because they buy into the hype, let them. But my position is it is not NEEDED, and why burden yourself with more gun than you need, and might not be able to shoot well, due to recoil.

Since the 06, 308, etc, will kill all the plains game out there, very well. No need to take along a 375, because it's the "in thing".

biggest way to negate recoil is having a properly fit stock and not shoot the gun hunched over at a bench...ive shot a 458 WIn Mag that felt like it kicked less than a 375WSM with mild loads i used to have, difference between the two is the 458 stock fit me like it was made for me....

Calling BS on that one. But pics of your animals would be nice...

Tisha,
Most anyone can LEARN to shoot well even with heavy recoil. True, if you buy a large magnum and don't learn how to shoot it then go hunting, your results may leave something to be desired.
Read my signature line. Bullet placement trumps power every time but power always helps (unless you are so afraid of the gun you close your eyes and yank the trigger). Not saying you do.

I've personally always enjoyed reading what the professionals have to say about all-round cartridges. Craig Boddington wrote two books;
American Hunting Rifles & Safari Rifles
In the back of both of these books Craig surveyed Guides & PHs.
American Hunting Rifles: top three Choices for All-round use:
1).300 Win Mag, 21
2)7mm Rem Mag, 16
3)30-06, 16
But if you look at the guides recommendations to clients which covers deer, elk, moose, sheep, goats, & bears - top three:
1)7mm Rem Mag, 88
2).270 Win, 81
3)30-06, 58

Safari Rifles PHs' All-round personal choices top 3:
1)375H&H, 81
2).416, 7
3)30-06, 6
Recommendation to clients; one rifle safari
1)375H&H, 70
2)30-06, 8
3)300 mag, 5
Two rifle safari and drop the big rifle which is the 375H&H top three:
1)7mm mag, 19
2)300 mag, 18
3)30-06, 13

Based on those recommendations from the "Professionals" if you never plan to hunt dangerous game and you want an all around do it all rifle cartridge then buy a 7mm Remington Mag, the clear professionals choice. But if you plan to chase stuff that bites, stomps, or gores the clear Hype of the 375H&H would be your choice.

Another source is the Boon & Crockett Club to see what North American Hunters are actually using to kill Big Game. I took the top three for each class & totaled them up
#1 30-06
#2 270
#3 7mm Mag

I know SCI keeps this data and would be interested in what the international hunters are using.

So if we have any SCI memebers please list this information!

The outfitter and PHs I was with on the trip I took my .35 Whelen had never even heard of it.

OTOH the .308 WCF seemed popular and one of them was carrying a 7mm RM. They liked the .300 Win. Mag., also.

Curious what they thought of it, post-hunt. I personally think it'd be an effective plains game round.

I have mentioned this before, but and an SCI Convention in Oz the .338 handloaded with 250gn Partition was the clear winner. Deer elk moose and bears in the US plus everything in Africa the game scout permitted which included lion and buffalo leopard and elan that I know of.

For Buffalo hunts, the .375 and .458 and for elephant only, the .458 was the clear winner.

John

And with the great washing of the hype, Guides, Professional Hunters, and record book chasers everywhere laid down their magnums for an 06 with 150 grain TTSX; unless they chose the 280.

Started to make a reply here, and lost it. Oh well. Was saying that it is true that a stock that fits you well, does make apparent recoil seem less. The 340 I got, I got to see how bad this round was, recoil wise, because I'd heard so much bad about it. But this rifle evidently fits me well, as doesn't bother me to shoot it. It's Wby MkV. I have only shot the one Caribou with it, and did so because I wanted to see how it's do on something like that. I actually believe my 280 with the 140, or the 06 with the 165 would have done at least as well. As for fit, I have a custom made 7mmRM, I got back in the early 70s. Is built to fit me. weighs 9+ lbs, which it should, and has a steel butt plate, because I feel a it looks better with one. It does not seem to have much recoil. I've had others, who said their 7mmRM, kicked badly. However, the point is, that I just do not feel that a 375 is necessary for taking animals that aren't any different in size from a white tail, or pronghorn, or maybe a cow Elk. I don't suspect that folks here are going out and using a 375 to hunt pronghorn, because the feel they need to. One PH friend of mine used a 308, mainly, one uses a 7x57, one an 06, two were using 7x64 (european 280s, essentially), none of them carried a 375. when it came to dangerous game, the two that took folks out for those animals, used 458 Lotts. A couple of years ago, I was in Namibia and killed 7 Oryx, 3 with the 338/06 and the 240gr X bullets, and 4 with the 280 and 140gr Ttsx. the 280 put them down right now, while 2 of the 3 with the 338/06, went and laid down and needed a 2nd shot (under the ear), while the 3rd one had been wounded by a pass through on one of the other ones, and had a broken leg, and also was killed with a head shot. My first Oryx, on my first hunt, was shot with a 45/70, I was the fist person to use the Marlin 95 in Africa, to my knowledge. It took 3 shots all in the shoulder area, to bring mine down. No shot was over 50 yds. My X shot her's with the 06 and the 165gr Nosler Partition, and it went down now. She killed the Oryx and 2 Kudu, one shot each, down right now. She shot a Zebra with that same load, from the front, and it ran about 50 yds and piled up. I guess my point is, why go for the 375 if it's not needed. Shoot something you can handle well, and it'll handle the deer, antelope, and about anything else.

Something was said a few posts back about my 13 year old (at the time)grandson, probably not as big as one of the posters. He,at 13 was 6' tall and weighed about a 170 or so lbs. so not exactly the normal 13 year old (when I was 13 I was 4'11" and weighed 75 lbs, lol). Anyway, if someone feels it's necessary for them to use a 375, fine with me. I just don't see the need for one on most game. At the same time, I don't see going too small, as first rule should be to kill the animal cleanly, and quickly, so I couldn't agree with 2 people, in Alaska, who shot their Moose with a 243. They happened to get the bullets in between the ribs, and killed them. But , to me, that doesn't make the 243 a moose or Elk round.

I never asked them but I thought I needed something with a little more penetration. I use the .300 Win Mag now.

for another insite on this topic, see Charlesl's post on part 3 of his hunt. Note the caliber used..